9 hours ago, Eaglesfandan said:

I get that somebody can post all of the organizations that actually do help children, but I just don't see it in real life personally.  I also don't agree with a lot of them because they are doing work out of county.  We have starving kids here.

Argument: pro life people don't care about kids once they're born.

Rebuttal: evidence of pro life people caring and taking action.

Moving goal post arguments: well "I" don't see it personally, and I don't like the way they do it.  

Holding people responsible and accountable in today's society is either racist, sexist or "infringing" on their rights.

Carving a baby out of the womb and then hiding behind "the my right" argument is disgusting and cowardly. If people put half as much effort into preventing a pregnancy as they do obtaining an abortion, the whole f------- thing could be avoided.

As far as not caring after a baby is born is just pure bullsh-- too.  There are so many organizations, social services, churches, individuals and groups that supply support and guidance and that argument is simply a spineless way of justifying a type of genocide.  But the demoscum need these kinds of vote buying schemes so they turn irresponsible behavior and a disgusting procedure into a "rights" argument for women......but, as usual, they never look at the collateral damage because women's health isn't really a concern.

And as far as adoption is concerned, demoscum have made that process so difficult and costly for potential parents, many couples who could adopt, won't......so really, who doesn't give a sh-- after a baby is born?

1 hour ago, birdman#12 said:

Holding people responsible and accountable in today's society is either racist, sexist or "infringing" on their rights.

Carving a baby out of the womb and then hiding behind "the my right" argument is disgusting and cowardly. If people put half as much effort into preventing a pregnancy as they do obtaining an abortion, the whole f------- thing could be avoided.

As far as not caring after a baby is born is just pure bullsh-- too.  There are so many organizations, social services, churches, individuals and groups that supply support and guidance and that argument is simply a spineless way of justifying a type of genocide.  But the demoscum need these kinds of vote buying schemes so they turn irresponsible behavior and a disgusting procedure into a "rights" argument for women......but, as usual, they never look at the collateral damage because women's health isn't really a concern.

And as far as adoption is concerned, demoscum have made that process so difficult and costly for potential parents, many couples who could adopt, won't......so really, who doesn't give a sh-- after a baby is born?

You’re unhinged.

great timing with this thread...right as repugs are trying to rip apart the affordable care act..specifically for those with preexisting conditions.

repugs are a caring bunch, for sure.    

1 hour ago, Dave Moss said:

You’re unhinged.

What's the matter, cupcake? Offended?.....Typical response from somebody who supports this kind of killing for convenience.  Responsibility and accountability must really get under your skin.

18 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

What's the matter, cupcake? Offended?.....Typical response from somebody who supports this kind of killing for convenience.  Responsibility and accountability must really get under your skin.

I guess I should have figured out that this thread would turn into "and here’s a link to my favorite charity.”

Wow the left supports killing babies so much they now show open disdain for charitable organizations that help children.  

The idea that we can go back to the days before R. v. Wade is absurd. Making it illegal means it will be illegal for poor people. Well to do people will always be able to find a doctor to do it. I'll never understand people who say you can't restrict access to guns because they will just become available on the black market, don't see how that same argument applies to drugs or abortions. 

Just now, Gannan said:

The idea that we can go back to the days before R. v. Wade is absurd. Making it illegal means it will be illegal for poor people. Well to do people will always be able to find a doctor to do it. I'll never understand people who say you can't restrict access to guns because they will just become available on the black market, don't see how that same argument applies to drugs or abortions. 

Agreed, which is already happening to a degree in some states where it's prohibitively difficult to get one. And while I am personally against abortions that aren't medically necessary at any point in a pregnancy, I'm not sure it's pragmatic at this point to pass legislation effectively banning them for others who may not feel that way. 

Likewise, banning guns is also not pragmatic, and would basically be a logistical impossibility.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Agreed, which is already happening to a degree in some states where it's prohibitively difficult to get one. And while I am personally against abortions that aren't medically necessary at any point in a pregnancy, I'm not sure it's pragmatic at this point to pass legislation effectively banning them for others who may not feel that way. 

Likewise, banning guns is also not pragmatic, and would basically be a logistical impossibility.

Agreed. Its not a really an issue I take into account when I vote. The abortion rate has been declining under every president in my lifetime (until Trump). I think that's the best way to approach the issue. Educate and offer alternatives to reduce the overall abortion rate. 

3 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Agreed. Its not a really an issue I take into account when I vote. The abortion rate has been declining under every president in my lifetime (until Trump). I think that's the best way to approach the issue. Educate and offer alternatives to reduce the overall abortion rate. 

Yep, especially with a focus on contraceptives. Abstinence-only sex education is about as archaic and laughably idiotic as a public education policy as it is to tell our children the Earth is only 6,000 years old. If as a parent you want to do that in your own home, or send your kid to a private school for it, then that's cool. But keep that nonsense out of public schools.

1 minute ago, Gannan said:

Agreed. Its not a really an issue I take into account when I vote. The abortion rate has been declining under every president in my lifetime (until Trump). I think that's the best way to approach the issue. Educate and offer alternatives to reduce the overall abortion rate. 

Easier access to birth control, not teaching the moronic religious abstinence policies in school, and maybe make it so people can afford to live and have a kid with increased wages, health care, job security, etc. The banning thing is going to work like it did with prohibition, the war on drugs, and whatever other dumb loony stuff the right wing comes up with that will ultimate just increase "crime", but not solve the problem caused by their crummy policies.

2 hours ago, mr_hunt said:

great timing with this thread...right as repugs are trying to rip apart the affordable care act..specifically for those with preexisting conditions.

repugs are a caring bunch, for sure.    

Well I'm not a Republican and the "timing" was in response to 2 posts in the meme thread accusing pro life people of not caring about children.

12 hours ago, NOTW said:

Argument: pro life people don't care about kids once they're born.

Rebuttal: evidence of pro life people caring and taking action.

Moving goal post arguments: well "I" don't see it personally, and I don't like the way they do it.  

Where is your accountability? Pro-Lifers put forth so much effort protecting the unborn, but after the kid is born 1) it's not my responsibility, I'm not the parent; or 2) charity will take care of them. How about minding your own business, letting mothers and doctors decide the best outcome, then using that effort to helping the kids that are here and need help.

55 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Agreed. Its not a really an issue I take into account when I vote. The abortion rate has been declining under every president in my lifetime (until Trump). I think that's the best way to approach the issue. Educate and offer alternatives to reduce the overall abortion rate. 

While I knew the topic would easily get into the debate of whether or not abortion should be legal, the point I was making wasn't actually about abortion but about the common accusation/blanket statement that pro life people only care about the unborn, but once you're born they do not.  

As for abortion itself I am kinda on the same page with you.  I actually liked what Obama said about it when he was running his first campaign.  He said that people may disagree on abortion, but where we can agree is in prevention and we can focus efforts there.  While I'm disgusted by it and believe it is wrong, it's also legal and I don't see that changing.  The fact that people say women would just get them illegally anyway means the law isn't really the issue.  So we need to look at causing factors, prevention and promote adoption. 

9 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Well I'm not a Republican and the "timing" was in response to 2 posts in the meme thread accusing pro life people of not caring about children.

so you started an entire thread to argue with a couple memes.  okay. 

good luck!   

Yeah what were you thinking starting a thread about an issue with conflicting views in conflicting views!

3 minutes ago, binkybink77 said:

Yeah what were you thinking starting a thread about an issue with conflicting views in conflicting views!

to argue with a meme someone most likely spent 5 seconds to copy/paste.   

NOTW right now

it's very weird to see guys like NOTW and DrPhilly getting a turn in the barrel. 

they both seem to be devotees of the "both sides" point of view.

1 minute ago, toolg said:

Where is your accountability? Pro-Lifers put forth so much effort protecting the unborn, but after the kid is born 1) it's not my responsibility, I'm not the parent; or 2) charity will take care of them. How about minding your own business, letting mothers and doctors decide the best outcome, then using that effort to helping the kids that are here and need help.

 

I'm sure you have stances on issues but aren't personally taking accountability to the degree you're expecting a pro life person to.  Nevertheless, you don't know what people's actions are such as donating to the charities, fostering or adopting, feeding children, working at food banks, getting involved in social programs and other volunteering, etc.  If you want to get personal, here are some things I do.  I volunteer with my church at a food bank that feeds families.  I volunteer with an organization End Slavery Tennessee which focuses on human trafficking.  There is a community of refugees from the Middle East that have taken up shelter here in Nashville and a couple that owned an apartment complex decided to open it up to them at reduced or free rent which is paid for by donations.  My family and I serve that community through our church by buying and donating supplies, showing up to serve food and play games with the kids to give them entertainment, provide backpacks with school supplies each Fall, a big Christmas party where another large local church hosts with hot meals, toys and other gifts, pictures with Santa, games and music.  In the summer because they don't have the free school breakfast and lunches, churches and people around the community volunteer in shifts to serve breakfast and lunch to this community every day and give them groceries for their dinners.

I'll give you another example.  A friend of mine is a missionary who's worked around the world, currently in Greece helping people fleeing Turkey and Syria with food, shelter, medicine and money to help them along their journey to whatever country they're trying to get to.  He visited one of the locations of his organization in Africa, where there are cult people who sacrifice their babies (not abortion, babies after they're born) by tying them to trees in the woods and left for dead.  This organization waits until the adults who do this are gone and rescue the babies and travel with them to a foster and adoption clinic to save their lives.

Again it's just a huge assumption and lazy generalization that pro life people don't care and do nothing.

 

15 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

so you started an entire thread to argue with a couple memes.  okay. 

good luck!   

And you've replied a few times, so thanks for contributing.  

 

25 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

I'm sure you have stances on issues but aren't personally taking accountability to the degree you're expecting a pro life person to....

it's just a huge assumption and lazy generalization that pro life people don't care and do nothing.

 

Shows what you don't know. Thanks for your service. I could tell you about my time at food drives, at food banks, helping to feed underprivileged families, volunteering my time to help kids groups, assisting church groups, donating my time, money, and things... I'd be embellishing

The argument isn't about doing nothing. It's about wasting resources on somebody's deeply personal issues that don't concern us. Then when families are still struggling, just shrugging our shoulders and saying we've done everything we can already. Have we? Maybe instead of throwing huge rallies, making big banners, t-shirts and hats, flying people around, blocking clinics... Maybe we use that time and resources to help more families instead.

37 minutes ago, toolg said:

Shows what you don't know. Thanks for your service. I could tell you about my time at food drives, at food banks, helping to feed underprivileged families, volunteering my time to help kids groups, assisting church groups, donating my time, money, and things... I'd be embellishing

The argument isn't about doing nothing. It's about wasting resources on somebody's deeply personal issues that don't concern us. Then when families are still struggling, just shrugging our shoulders and saying we've done everything we can already. Have we? Maybe instead of throwing huge rallies, making big banners, t-shirts and hats, flying people around, blocking clinics... Maybe we use that time and resources to help more families instead.

I mean, everyone has ideas they support but don't do anything about.  Example, you can be for military action but aren't enrolled in the military.  You can be against animal abuse and not have an animal in your home.  

The argument keeps changing, or maybe more accurately there are different aspects to it that should be argued separately.  The blanket accusation that pro life people don't care about children is absurd, ignorant, lazy and disproven.

If you want to argue how resources are spent, that's a different argument.  If you want to argue that there are people who will participate to show support in ways that can seem helpful but actually aren't, that's another argument.  You can also argue certain specific incidents or ideas like wanting to cut welfare benefits or not being upset by kids in cages at the border.  Some of those cross into other political ideas as well.  For example, someone might not want their tax dollars increased for government run programs but might prefer to give their money in donations to charities that help children so it may not be that they don't care about children, they just might be against expanding government.  I'm not saying I agree with that but that's an argument I've heard people make.  

I do agree there are some people who make abortion a wedge voting issue and are all talk but no action.  I don't agree with people who say if you're pro-life, it's your responsibility to adopt the children but there are ways as we've talked about to help children and families.

That's the whole argument: If you truly cared about kids and families you would spend more time and resources actually helping them. The Pro-Life movement is pointless. You aren't changing anybody's minds. You aren't making people more pious. Nobody desires to have an abortion. You're spending time and money holding rallies and events, and doing things that aren't actually helping. Not to be a party-pooper, I like rallies and gatherings as much as anyone, You got the right to organize, use it...  But I am raining on this parade. You're actually hurting women's and mothers' access to healthcare.

If you say that's a different argument, then what are you arguing about?