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Does Doug Pederson really trust Carson Wentz right now?


UK_EaglesFan89
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Does Doug Pederson really trust Carson Wentz right now?

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The fact that Doug Pederson elected to punt in overtime and settle for a tie against the Bengals on Sunday is a problem.

 

The reason he did it is an even bigger one.

Over the last few years, Pederson earned his reputation as one of the more aggressive head coaches in the NFL because he was able to show faith in his players. He has always trusted them to make those gutsy decisions pay off.

It certainly doesn’t seem like Pederson trusts Carson Wentz right now.

Because if it was 2017 (or even 2018 or 2019) and THAT version of Carson Wentz was the quarterback, do we really think Pederson opts to punt the football away in overtime and settle for a tie? Against the freaking Cincinnati Bengals?

No way.

If Wentz looked like an elite quarterback, of course Pederson sends him out there on a 4th-and-12 with a chance to move the sticks, pick up a first down and then kick a game-winning field goal. The head coach should be able to trust his franchise quarterback, the No. 2 overall pick with the $100 million contract, to make a play to win a game. Even before that fourth down, it seemed like Pederson was coaching to win the game on a long field goal. 

After three games this season, the truth is sad and it’s hard to face: Wentz looks like a broken player.

"I have to be better – and I know that and I will be,” Wentz said after Sunday’s 23-23 tie. "I’ll learn from it. That’s really all I can say.”

 

After all three games to start the 2020 season, Wentz has given some variation of that response. And after every game, it’s becoming harder and harder to believe him.

Sure, there were some built-in excuses again on Sunday. The Eagles had their third different offensive line in three games. They were without Jalen Reagor and then they lost Dallas Goedert and DeSean Jackson in the first half. Hell, is it too far along in the year to blame the unusual offseason?

 

But all those excuses don’t matter. Wentz is the franchise quarterback and he just hasn’t played like it. Not even close.

Wentz on Sunday completed 29 of 47 passes (61.7%) for 225 yards with 1 touchdown and 2 interceptions. He had a passer rating of 62.8. This is the first time in Wentz’s career he has had three straight games with a passer rating under 75.

The most shocking part of Wentz’s regression is his propensity for turning the football over. He threw two more interceptions on Sunday and was lucky that Jason Kelce jumped on the ball he fumbled.

In each of his three previous seasons, Wentz threw exactly seven interceptions. In 2020, he has six through three games! Wentz didn’t throw his sixth INT last year until Week 12.

"That’s something that I have to be better with,” Wentz said.

It’s possible that Sunday’s tie was actually an even more frustrating game for Wentz and for Eagles fans, because there were some glimpses of the old Wentz. He was able to avoid pressure at times, get on the run, and his 30-yard pass to Zach Ertz in overtime was a beauty.

Wentz also had nine carries for a career-high 65 yards and an important rushing touchdown in the fourth quarter.

"I mean, he battled,” Pederson said. "He was tough.”

Yeah, no question. Wentz was tough. Wentz battled.

But Wentz also just wasn’t good enough. And he hasn’t been good enough now for three games.

If he had been, the head coach would have shown more faith in him.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/doug-pederson-carson-wentz-trust-bengals-tie-nfl-week-3

Doug doesn't trust Wentz and that is why Doug called the pass plays that he appeared to call. Doug called the game like he had a back up QB in there in an emergency situation where the back up had zero time to prepare. The play calling was so limited and that's because Wentz just looks so bad out there!

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No faith in Wentz yet he calls for him to throw the damn ball 47 f****** times with only 24 runs called in a game where the score was close the entire 60 minutes (and Sanders was looking electric).  I can't stand his play-calling.  He either needs to relinquish those duties or get fired.  I'm as done with him as I am with Howie running the draft.  

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1 minute ago, time2rock said:

No faith in Wentz yet he calls for him to throw the damn ball 47 f****** times with only 24 runs called in a game where the score was close the entire 60 minutes (and Sanders was looking electric).  I can't stand his play-calling.  He either needs to relinquish those duties or get fired.  I'm as done with him as I am with Howie running the draft.  

Great great point. What on earth was he doing there with calling so many pass plays. 

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8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Great great point. What on earth was he doing there with calling so many pass plays. 

I swear it is deja vu all over again, like watching this team during the Reid years when he turned stunad.  AR's play-calling went to ish in the latter half of his tenure here and the quality of his staff slowly deteriorated over time (after having a strong staff initially) - same with Doug.  I just hope (if things continue to go south) that we don't wait as long to pull the plug on Doug as we did Reid who should have been let go a few years earlier.  

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I really thought they would have gone for it. Only thing that made sense..... Think about it. It was gonna be a 59yd fg try. Lets say Jake would have missed. Well Cincy field position would have been a lot better on the missed FG than a failed 4th down attempt. At least you had a small chance vs a even smaller chance on the punt (muffed punt).

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1 hour ago, time2rock said:

No faith in Wentz yet he calls for him to throw the damn ball 47 f****** times with only 24 runs called in a game where the score was close the entire 60 minutes (and Sanders was looking electric).  I can't stand his play-calling.  He either needs to relinquish those duties or get fired.  I'm as done with him as I am with Howie running the draft.  

Agree. 

Injuries, backup O lineman, struggling QB, great RB... and you don't run enough?!

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1 hour ago, NOTW said:

Agree. 

Injuries, backup O lineman, struggling QB, great RB... and you don't run enough?!

Doug has really turned stunad.  Further proof?  He claims "we're not that far off" because we are only half a game out of first place.  Dear Lord.  Where we rank in a really crappy division means nothing when evaluating how poorly the team is playing overall and where we rank in the conference or league as a whole.  

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/09/28/doug-pederson-says-dont-go-there-when-asked-about-benching-carson-wentz/

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2 hours ago, time2rock said:

No faith in Wentz yet he calls for him to throw the damn ball 47 f****** times with only 24 runs called in a game where the score was close the entire 60 minutes (and Sanders was looking electric).  I can't stand his play-calling.  He either needs to relinquish those duties or get fired.  I'm as done with him as I am with Howie running the draft.  

Ironic how this game very much mirrored that "I didnt know the rules on ties/OT" Bengals  game in 2008 with McNabb. The Bengals that year were horrendous vs the run and Reid passed the ball 58x and we attempted 18 runs. Apple didnt fall far from the tree with Doug

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8 minutes ago, PaulyB384 said:

Ironic how this game very much mirrored that "I didnt know the rules on ties/OT" Bengals  game in 2008 with McNabb. The Bengals that year were horrendous vs the run and Reid passed the ball 58x and we attempted 18 runs. Apple didnt fall far from the tree with Doug

Just waiting on Carson now to state he didn't know games could end in a tie.  :lol:

 

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Pedersen knows that right now, Wentz is fighting himself and knows that benching him is probably the worst thing he could do.  Pedersen realizes the struggles that QBs can go thru and the ONLY way to work out of it, is to continue to play his way out of it....and Pedersen himself has to do more to get Wentz back on track.  

Run the ball more, give Wentz more leeway to get out of the pocket, take off or throw on the run.......give him high percentage pass calls...nickel and dime your way down the field.....and send a receiver deep every pass play.....

Sanders, Clement and Scott should handle the ball 30-35 times a game or more......control the ball, keep the defense on the sideline as much as possible.

It's not so much that Pedersen has lost some confidence in Wentz, but the guys on the field with him.  Wentz looks tense and is pressing and the whole unit can see it.

The only thing that will keep Wentz from getting back to a threat, is his own head.  If he continues to overthink things, he'll continue to press and when a QB is pressing, he doesn't go thru his reads, he locks on receivers, he gets flat footed and he grips the ball different.....which f---- up his mechanics.

The Eagles have to find out how he handles this adversity in his own head.   If he is their long term QB, which they invested a lot in, they have to find out.  Benching him compounds the problem........QBs jumping in and out of the lineup has proven to be ineffective while screwing the QB up even more.

Again, they have to find out how Wentz responds......

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2 hours ago, birdman#12 said:

Pedersen knows that right now, Wentz is fighting himself and knows that benching him is probably the worst thing he could do.  Pedersen realizes the struggles that QBs can go thru and the ONLY way to work out of it, is to continue to play his way out of it....and Pedersen himself has to do more to get Wentz back on track.  

If Wentz is so mentally fragile that benching him would completely finish him off then he shouldn't be in the league anymore. In fact if that's the case he isn't ever going to be a top top player. If benched it should lit a fire under him not have him shutting down. 

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The way Wentz plays another injury is almost inevitable. That would be absolutely horrible for him. That could stick a dagger in his career depending on severity.

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing for this team?

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Wentz has shown in stretches that he has the ability to develop into a top 5 QB in the NFL, not the #1, but 5th best isn't a stretch. He lacks position coaching, an O-line to protect him, and receivers who are playmakers in their own right. It's hard to develop when you're getting banged around regularly, nobody is making plays consistently, and your coaching has no answers to help you because that kid is "learning together" with the QB (WTF is that by the way?).

That's where he is at right now. I don't see him getting any better because the 3 things he needs to develop aren't on this team. 

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11 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

Wentz has shown in stretches that he has the ability to develop into a top 5 QB in the NFL, not the #1, but 5th best isn't a stretch. He lacks position coaching, an O-line to protect him, and receivers who are playmakers in their own right. It's hard to develop when you're getting banged around regularly, nobody is making plays consistently, and your coaching has no answers to help you because that kid is "learning together" with the QB (WTF is that by the way?).

I don't agree here. 5th best is a huge stretch and I think the overall body of work shows that now. 

Straight off the bat... Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Garrappolo, Watson, Allen, Murray and Wilson are all all fairly young and have many years ahead and are all better QBs. I've left off the older QBs like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Big Ben who are all better but may be in their latter years. And then there's young QBs like Tua and Herbert who have talent but it's still early days. And then there's the QBs to come in to the league like Lawrence and Fields.

Wentz isn't going to be a top 5 QB. Maybe for the odd game he will, maybe for some stretches but not overall. 

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7 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't agree here. 5th best is a huge stretch and I think the overall body of work shows that now. 

Straight off the bat... Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Garrappolo, Watson, Allen, Murray and Wilson are all all fairly young and have many years ahead and are all better QBs. I've left off the older QBs like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Big Ben who are all better but may be in their latter years. And then there's young QBs like Tua and Herbert who have talent but it's still early days. And then there's the QBs to come in to the league like Lawrence and Fields.

Wentz isn't going to be a top 5 QB. Maybe for the odd game he will, maybe for some stretches but not overall. 

Poconodon has a point here.

Why was Carson way better in 2017? Did he regress that much or was DeFilippo just a lightyears better QB coach than Taylor or Groh?!

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9 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Poconodon has a point here.

Why was Carson way better in 2017? Did he regress that much or was DeFilippo just a lightyears better QB coach than Taylor or Groh?!

Right but then should we be putting that much on the QB coach? I mean it is Wentz out there making the decisions, it is Wentz out there making awful throw after awful throw. Yes sure I would agree that some of this is down to the coaching but I don't think that is everything. And what has DeFilippo done since he left Philly? Been fired a couple of times and now I think he is in Chicago? Where he was supposed to turn things around for their QB bust and he was just benched in week 3.

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We were going to win when he decided the throw the ball for an incomplete pass. Should have just spiked the ball with 3 seconds left like a normal team and kicked the field goal. If we get the penalty you don’t leave any time on the clock for the bengals to try anything. If the kick was caught after a penalty well you punted anyway. 
 

As for not trusting wentz I feel like he might not. Wentz is in his own head and needs to find his way out. 

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3 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Poconodon has a point here.

Why was Carson way better in 2017? Did he regress that much or was DeFilippo just a lightyears better QB coach than Taylor or Groh?!

Have to assume that the work both Flip and Reich did with Wentz was largely responsible for the success during his early development.  Wentz was an unfinished product when they departed and those picking up where they left off (Taylor, Groh) have no where near the level of experience and proven track record of developing QBs.  It's really unfortunate that they left - I mean there is nothing we could do to prevent them from leaving but most of us expressed these concerns back then (as well as the offense regressing as a whole) and guess what, I think it is pretty damn safe to say we were right (unfortunately).  

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5 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't agree here. 5th best is a huge stretch and I think the overall body of work shows that now. 

Straight off the bat... Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Garrappolo, Watson, Allen, Murray and Wilson are all all fairly young and have many years ahead and are all better QBs. I've left off the older QBs like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Big Ben who are all better but may be in their latter years. And then there's young QBs like Tua and Herbert who have talent but it's still early days. And then there's the QBs to come in to the league like Lawrence and Fields.

Wentz isn't going to be a top 5 QB. Maybe for the odd game he will, maybe for some stretches but not overall. 

Mahomes is about the only one who hasn't had some bad to mediocre play at some point. Burrows is fricking 3 games in, remember Carsons first 3 games, need a lot more then that sample size to determine anything. Garrappolo? Mullens looked better then him! I won't say top 5 but he can still be a very good QB if he gets his crap together. There's some real atrocious QB play in this league.

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2 hours ago, EaglesfanfromND said:

Mahomes is about the only one who hasn't had some bad to mediocre play at some point. Burrows is fricking 3 games in, remember Carsons first 3 games, need a lot more then that sample size to determine anything. Garrappolo? Mullens looked better then him! I won't say top 5 but he can still be a very good QB if he gets his crap together. There's some real atrocious QB play in this league.

I just think there is a good argument to be made for all of those QBs and therefore I'm not sure Wentz will ever even be top 10 let alone top 20.

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8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't agree here. 5th best is a huge stretch and I think the overall body of work shows that now. 

Straight off the bat... Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Garrappolo, Watson, Allen, Murray and Wilson are all all fairly young and have many years ahead and are all better QBs. I've left off the older QBs like Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, Big Ben who are all better but may be in their latter years. And then there's young QBs like Tua and Herbert who have talent but it's still early days. And then there's the QBs to come in to the league like Lawrence and Fields.

Wentz isn't going to be a top 5 QB. Maybe for the odd game he will, maybe for some stretches but not overall. 

It's how I view his ceiling. It's fine if you disagree. 

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8 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

It's how I view his ceiling. It's fine if you disagree. 

Oh absolutely and hey that's what we are here for... to discuss and debate.

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On 9/29/2020 at 5:26 AM, Ray75 said:

Poconodon has a point here.

Why was Carson way better in 2017? Did he regress that much or was DeFilippo just a lightyears better QB coach than Taylor or Groh?!

And why was Flip not brought back when he was available? If you listen to the rumors, it’s because Wentz didn’t get along with him due to Flip being "too hard on him.” Despite seeming like a good dude off the field, Wentz biggest issue on the field and in the locker room seems to be his ego. 

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14 minutes ago, nipples said:

And why was Flip not brought back when he was available? If you listen to the rumors, it’s because Wentz didn’t get along with him due to Flip being "too hard on him.” Despite seeming like a good dude off the field, Wentz biggest issue on the field and in the locker room seems to be his ego. 

You do have a good point here.

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