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The good, the bad and the ugly: week 12 Vs. Seahawks


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2 hours ago, Columbus Eagle said:

It’s absolutely maddening that we kept trotting Gerry out there to stink up the joint for half the season when we had better players riding the bench. The same goes for Peters starting on the left side. Whoever is selecting our starters needs his walking papers this week. It’s inexcusable at this point in the year. 

Right? If nothing else, at this point we should be sitting veterans in order to see what we have in some of our younger guys. Alshon, Peters, Gerry and NRC don’t need to suit up for the rest of the season. Mailata, Herbig, Fulgham, Reagor, Hightower, Taylor and Wallace should all be getting extended reps. 
 

Also, move Mills back to outside CB, and Maddox to the slot. 

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slay should not get a pass for last night. I will agree that the whole secondary made mistakes, but he got beat badly on several occasions.

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48 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

slay should not get a pass for last night. I will agree that the whole secondary made mistakes, but he got beat badly on several occasions.

He shouldn’t but that deep all that went for 52 yards is as much on an Rodney McLeod as it is on slay. Now the 31 yard or down the sideline that was a hell of a catch by DK Metcalf because slay had pretty good position. However again mcleod is dilly dallying in the middle of the field doing much of nothing on the play. He had a bad game. And you’re paying him so he can slow down Metcalf. I think if you’re expecting him to shut him down like a Gilmore or Ramsey or white then you’re gonna be disappointed. I don’t think he’s in that tier of cornerback. But he definitely got abused last night. However the Eagles safeties didn’t exactly do a great job. It’s becoming more noticeable by the weeks that our safeties are just not good enough. Mcleod is declining and Mills is just not that good. 

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2 hours ago, Wentz 2 Ertz said:

Howie will have his role diminished as well. 

Howie needs to be escorted out by security.

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1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

He shouldn’t but that deep all that went for 52 yards is as much on an Rodney McLeod as it is on slay. Now the 31 yard or down the sideline that was a hell of a couch by DK Metcalf because slay had pretty good position. However again mcleod is dilly dallying in the middle of the field doing much of nothing on the play. He had a bad game. And you’re paying him so he can slow down Metcalf. I think if you’re expecting him to shut him down like a Gilmore or Ramsey or white then you’re gonna be disappointed. I don’t think he’s in that tier of quarterback. But he definitely got abused last night. However the Eagles safeties didn’t exactly do a great job. It’s becoming more noticeable by the weeks that our safeties are just not good enough. Mcleod is declining and Mills is just not that good. 

That is fair. I dont expect him to be a complete shut down guy. He is a really fine player and I take comfort in the fact that we have at least one solid piece in our secondary for the next couple of years. 

But the "you are paying him" part I take slight issue with. First of all, I dont think the Eagles go into matchups expecting Slay to only slow guys down. Sure he is gonna get beat, and i dont know a singe corner out there that gets better in coverage as during extended plays, but let's set the bar a little higher. Also, I understand that free agency looks different every year, so it is hard to "compare" salaries. But, technically we are paying him a similar rate as a White, Humphrey, or Gilmore... We payed what we needed to get Slay and he is not on the level of those other guys (and that is okay). 

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3 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

That is fair. I dont expect him to be a complete shut down guy. He is a really fine player and I take comfort in the fact that we have at least one solid piece in our secondary for the next couple of years. 

But the "you are paying him" part I take slight issue with. First of all, I dont think the Eagles go into matchups expecting Slay to only slow guys down. Sure he is gonna get beat, and i dont know a singe corner out there that gets better in coverage as during extended plays, but let's set the bar a little higher. Also, I understand that free agency looks different every year, so it is hard to "compare" salaries. But, technically we are paying him a similar rate as a White, Humphrey, or Gilmore... We payed what we needed to get Slay and he is not on the level of those other guys (and that is okay). 

Well just because the Eagles made the mistake of paying Darius slay like those guys doesn’t mean he’s going to play like those guys. Those guys are better corners than him. There was a reason why the Lions were willing to give him up for a third round pick where as those teams would not give you those type of player for a third round pick.

Now the Eagles have to pay him that because that’s what the market value was dictating and they were forced into it because they gave up a draft pick and they couldn’t say no we’re not gonna pay you. he would hold that over them and could just hold out creating an ugly situation. 

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1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Well just because the Eagles made the mistake of paying Darius slay like those guys doesn’t mean he’s going to play like those guys. Those guys are better corners than him. There was a reason why the Lions were willing to give him up for a third round pick where as those teams would not give you those type of player for a third round pick.

Now the Eagles have to pay him that because that’s what the market value was dictating and they were forced into it because they gave up a draft pick and they couldn’t say no we’re not gonna pay you. he would hold that over them and could just hold out creating an ugly situation. 

Yeah its all about the market, nothing we can do about it. Except maybe draft better. So many missed opportunities... and if the fans are (correctly) calling these mistakes before the kids even hit the field, you really need to reassess your draft process. 

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5 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

Yeah its all about the market, nothing we can do about it. Except maybe draft better. So many missed opportunities... and if the fans are (correctly) calling these mistakes before the kids even hit the field, you really need to reassess your draft process. 

I like Darius slay  but that trade all comes down to the fact we cannot pick corners to save our lives. When Jalen mills and avonte maddox are considered the best corner draft picks you have made in the last decade there’s massive issues. 

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Even the announcers kept seeing that the WRs cannot create separation.

Also, Reagor looks slow and nonexplosive. Wonder if he is still injured.

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2 hours ago, kentwo said:

Even the announcers kept seeing that the WRs cannot create separation.

Also, Reagor looks slow and nonexplosive. Wonder if he is still injured.

Problem is his injury wasn’t to something that would hurt his speed. It could be he just isn’t as fast as they bought and his forty of 4.47 is indicative of what his actual speed is. 

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1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Problem is his injury wasn’t to something that would hurt his speed. It could be he just isn’t as fast as they bought and his forty of 4.47 is indicative of what his actual speed is. 

That's true. It was his hand, but wondering if he had a different injury not listed slowing him down.

Or maybe compared to NFL caliber players, he is just not as fast as he looked in college.

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1 hour ago, kentwo said:

That's true. It was his hand, but wondering if he had a different injury not listed slowing him down.

Or maybe compared to NFL caliber players, he is just not as fast as he looked in college.

Yup.  He's just not that fast.  Remember Desean in his rookie season.  That was real speed.  Reagor looks slow, cannot run routes, cannot be on the right spots on screens or beat coverage by average corners. His rookie stats are eerily similar to Agholor's rookie season and it should be definitely concerning.  

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1 hour ago, manz2821 said:

Yup.  He's just not that fast.  Remember Desean in his rookie season.  That was real speed.  Reagor looks slow, cannot run routes, cannot be on the right spots on screens or beat coverage by average corners. His rookie stats are eerily similar to Agholor's rookie season and it should be definitely concerning.  

He wasn’t a great route runner when he came out. It was one of his knocks. If you were going to go into a season and rely on a rookie wr then you needed to move up to get jeudy or lamb or when jefferson fell take him as you didn’t have the ability to wait on a rookie to get caught up as you refused to sign or trade for a veteran. 

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10 hours ago, weko said:

I think you're right. I sure hope so.  Doug is gone for sure and Jeff has to move Howie out of player personnel.  Louis Riddick did us a huge favor last night.  To hard core New England/LA limo liberals like Lurie, image is everything.  Louis ripped Howie and the organization to shreds last night.  It was beautiful. Jeff surely felt it.  I wonder if the sound is on for the TVs in his box?

That was the highlight of the game last night.

 

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32 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

He wasn’t a great route runner when he came out. It was one of his knocks. If you were going to go into a season and rely on a rookie wr then you needed to move up to get jeudy or lamb or when jefferson fell take him as you didn’t have the ability to wait on a rookie to get caught up as you refused to sign or trade for a veteran. 

Yup. Anderson should have been signed in hindsight. The coaching staff does not know how to coach receivers. Have we not had 3 different receivers coaches in 3 seasons back to back. That should maybe tell us the offensive scheme is the problem. And then it goes back again to Howie and Doug.

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1 hour ago, manz2821 said:

Yup. Anderson should have been signed in hindsight. The coaching staff does not know how to coach receivers. Have we not had 3 different receivers coaches in 3 seasons back to back. That should maybe tell us the offensive scheme is the problem. And then it goes back again to Howie and Doug.

It’s actually 5 WRs coaches in 5 years. That should tell you they’ve done a poor job accurately addressing which WR to draft. At this point when 5 different coaches fail to develop it might just be they are given not nfl caliber starting players to mold. 

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59 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

It’s actually 5 WRs coaches in 5 years. That should tell you they’ve done a poor job accurately addressing which WR to draft. At this point when 5 different coaches fail to develop it might just be they are given not nfl caliber starting players to mold. 

Or the NFL caliber receiver in Agholor was a dang headcase. Can't catch a break

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On 12/1/2020 at 11:07 AM, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I like Darius slay  but that trade all comes down to the fact we cannot pick corners to save our lives. When Jalen mills and avonte maddox are considered the best corner draft picks you have made in the last decade there’s massive issues. 

And I say again....we have had no real good corners since Lito Shepard and Sheldon Brown....and how long ago was that??

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I keep hearing about the WR not getting separation, but it seems like anytime I watch the games or highlights I see WRs open all the time. I really think that is the built in excuse for Wentz.

WRs are not going to have yards of separation, they are going to have inches at times. It is about getting positioning on the defender and the QB throwing a ball only a WR can catch. Wentz was decent at it and now he sucks. You cant wait till a WR has massive space - you have to trust your arm and that the WR will be in the position they are suppose to be in.

The problem with the offense is Wentz pure and simple. There is something wrong with him that is making him second guess, he is making his reads too slow and I am pretty sure he is calling one play in the huddle but thinking it is another play. I agree with another poster that his concussion was probably a lot worst then first diagnosed and he is still suffering the effects from it.

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I thought the defense looked fine against the Seahawks -- except no turnovers. The Eagles aren't beating any playoff teams without winning the turnover battle. This group just isn't creating much.

The Eagles lost 3 in a row, who's to blame? Wentz is still playing bad. The offensive gameplan sucks. The team is dearth of talent all over the roster, due to injury, bad drafts, acquisitions, whatever. Everybody has their hand in it. Howie is a contract/numbers guru, not a talent judge...So when the talent guy left the front office, what did they do to replace him? Doug is good at managing people, but was put in charge of the offense after Groh was fired, yet his playcalling stinks and his plays don't work. Who decided to go without an Offensive Coordinator? Wentz was lucky he always had a good offensive line to protect him, no he doesn't, so he's got to adjust. He's not playing with any confidence and it's obvious. I like how Lurie wanted to see Hurts play if Wentz sucked, and he did. So Hurts gets one play under center then it's right back to Wentz. Jeffery makes a nice catch when Hurts threw the ball to him, but he's got alligator arms when Wentz is throwing. It's like he gave up on Wentz... One thing leads to another leads to the next.... The whole team and organization is dysfunctional right now.

 

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14 hours ago, pallidrone said:

I keep hearing about the WR not getting separation, but it seems like anytime I watch the games or highlights I see WRs open all the time. I really think that is the built in excuse for Wentz.

WRs are not going to have yards of separation, they are going to have inches at times. It is about getting positioning on the defender and the QB throwing a ball only a WR can catch. Wentz was decent at it and now he sucks. You cant wait till a WR has massive space - you have to trust your arm and that the WR will be in the position they are suppose to be in.

The problem with the offense is Wentz pure and simple. There is something wrong with him that is making him second guess, he is making his reads too slow and I am pretty sure he is calling one play in the huddle but thinking it is another play. I agree with another poster that his concussion was probably a lot worst then first diagnosed and he is still suffering the effects from it.

Actually just got done watching the all 22 both offense and defense. However I paid more attention with the offense as the offense is not good and the defense played well. 

so a couple of notes from the all 22: 

so first drive 

1st and 5: Dallas Goedert would’ve had a big 20 yard gain if seumalo blocking would’ve been slightly better. Seumalo gets pushed back into wentz and wentz feels the pressure and throws it out to rodgers. Not a great throw. If wentz has a second longer, Wagner lets goedert run free after initially covering him and it’s just before wentz looks to rodgers. That could have been a nice gain if we had 1 second more 

2nd down and 5: Wentz hast to make that throw. That’s an easy pitch and catch to ward and you get a first down if you do it. However Miles Sanders I have no clue what he’s doing. On the RPO you can see Kelce is beat badly and sanders is there to help at that moment. If he chips that guy it might not have made a difference but that’s just awful job at recognizing a seahawk player is right in front of you cause kelce is and you just ignore it and wentz gets pummeled

3rd and 5: on third down the Seahawks sent way more people than the Eagles could block. Miles Sanders had a pretty nice block on that one to give Carson an extra half second to get that ball off. It was not a great comeback part of the route by Alshon Jeffery. That should’ve been an easier catch but he kind of half asses the comeback part of the route. If he would’ve comes back better than what he did that’s an easy catch for him and he probably can muscle his way to getting a first down. Instead it was a more difficult catch and he had to try to dive for it. 

the first half and besides one run by Sanders, the running blocking looked good. Granted they only have like 6 rushes. however of the six run plays all but one got five or more yards. And the blocking was really good on those five runs. (On the first run of the second half of scott doesn’t keep stretching it and is patient he likely picks up 4-6 yards)

third down and 10 from Seattle 17 in the third quarter that led to a sack. It was supposed to be a wide receiver screen to Jalen reagor. The reason it doesn’t work is because reagor runs a vertical route instead of staying where he was supposed to. If he does he has blockers all around him. He likely scores a touchdown on that play. He had kelce, peters and even alshon after he started blocking 6-7 yards down field. He really would’ve only had to beat the safety around the 6-7 yard line for the score. 

The last three drives of that game Matt pryor was absolutely atrocious. Especially the last two drives. He was beaten almost every single play which made wentz have to move from his spot in the pocket. Wentz actually had a guy on the right hand side wide open I want to say on the second to last drive the Eagles had but since Matt pryor was so badly beaten wentz was forced to move to his left and there’s no way he’s making that throw across the other side of the field to get it complete with how he’s playing right now. Peters wasn’t much better but definitely better than what Matt pryor is  frankly they need to play Driscoll he is a better player as a rookie then pryor

I actually didn’t think Jason kelce played all that great. He wasn’t bad by any stretch but he wasn’t also his usual self.

There was definitely a handful if not more of plays were the Eagles had WRs open. Wentz either doesn’t see it or makes a poor throw. four instance inside the red zone on fourth down he should’ve thrown it to Richard Rodgers. However on the six sacks only one of those plays did the Eagles have any wide receiver with any space to be open. They were pretty much covered on those sacks. And couple of those runs were Wentz took off there was no separation. I also gave credit to Pete Carroll and the Seahawks they did a fantastic job on defense disguising some things  there were times on the tv film i thought guys were open but on the all 22 there was a defender in the area that had a chance to make a play on the ball  

On the play where Jalen reagor isn’t covered by anybody and he waved his hand. Dallas goedert had about a half a step about 25 yards into his route on Bobby Wagner and the throw wasn’t a great throw. but I have to give props to Wagner for being able to stay with Dallas Goedert to the point where he was even able to make a play on that. Again the throw wasn’t great but it when you watch it from the all 22 it’s a really athletic play by Bobby Wagner who’s been in the league for what feels like forever and he still playing at a high-level. The throw helped make some of that play but it was also the fact he was there nearly stride for stride with goedert 40-50 yards down the field for a linebacker that’s crazy. Wentz should’ve went to reagor but if you watch reagor‘s route I don’t know why he decided to go up the field and then cut into the middle of the field where there was a safety waiting there. If he would’ve just went vertical seam there was no one

while Wentz is definitely a big problem. he actually had one play where he checked down to Richard Rogers and he had Jonathan hightower wide open on a route. It even looks like he looked at high tower but just didn’t throw it to him and then check down to Richard Rodgers. Which kind of tells me he either doesn’t trust what he’s seeing at times or he doesn’t trust hightower to come down with the ball

There’s also other things. They aren’t getting consistent separation. Frankly they need to teach their wide receivers how to get off jams better. Travis fulgham had one route where you look like he was going in a zigzag for about 8 yards just trying to get away from the guy. There was no way he was gonna get that ball thrown to him it was a horrific route and attempt to get off the jam

also it confirmed what I said about Solak and kist saying doug had a good night. He really didn’t. You can’t call plays with personnel that doesn’t fit the plays that you were trying to do and have the best effectiveness with it. we’re not playing our best personnel with routes we ask of some guys or even having our right personnel at times. Let me go in depth on what i mean. a play inside the red zone: 2nd and 10 with the game at 14-6. This is the personnel the Eagles had out on the field for this play: Richard Rogers, Dallas goedert, Caleb Wilson, Boston Scott and Jonathan hightower. They were also in an empty set which means Seattle knows you’re not going to run so you take aspect away and what the Seahawks have to think about when the Eagles aren’t exactly passing it very well anyways. but nevertheless that is an atrocious set of personnel especially in the red zone against Seattle who is playing in their base 4-3. If the Eagles would’ve had goedert and four wide receivers out there they have mismatches all over the field. Except they didn’t have reagor out there or Travis fulgham. On that play if you watch it on the TV film it looks like he throws behind Richard Rodgers and you’re like what the hell is wentz doing. However it actually from the all 22 view it looks like Wentz wanted to actually go to hightower near the end zone on his route but when he saw the safety coming up who would likely have picked it off if he went there, he decided to throw it to an area where no one was gonna be able to catch it. Rodgers looks more open than he is because Wagner stops and tries to stop His momentum and try to make a play on it  

I’d also point out we didn’t run very much pre-snap motion we just don’t do it. The fact that we also dropped back and called 55 pass plays and only nine runs to the running backs is kind of ridiculous. The run blocking in the first half was very very very good. Which makes it even more questionable why we didn’t give Miles Sanders more touches. Heck even in the Cory Clement looked good in his carry. 

other things I noticed, the wide receiver I saw that actually had the most separation in his route to times was actually Greg ward. He had about 3 routes which were actually 10-20 yards downfield. 

our running backs are bad at blitz pick up. There was another play of Miles Sanders where you could see that Jamal Adams was coming on a delayed blitz. He was creeping up and Sanders stops for a second and  as soon as he starts moving to go into his route you see Jamal Adams coming and he still goes on the route instead seeing Adams, staying in and blocking Adams. That could’ve been a nice play if you would’ve chipped him instead of going out on the route. I actually believe they brought in Jordan Howard not as much as people think for his short yardage but I believe they brought them in because Miles Sanders and Boston Scott have not looked good in blitz pick up pretty much all season especially the last couple of weeks.

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1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Howie is the number one fall guy to me.

Yeah he’s my top guy. We’ve drafted poorly. Thrown away draft picks. Poor signings. Back in April i didn’t think this team was very good due to roster construction. Wentz not playing well has been the biggest surprise to me but this roster over the last 3 seasons has headed in the complete wrong direction. That’s on howie. 

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Trench Talk

Was posted today. Tra did a great job highlighting a few things: 

  • Oline giving away run/pass plays simply by the way the have been setting up their feet. 
  • Seattle knew when Carson was going to be rolling out and played good discipline defense. 
  • He talked about sacks and how people keep saying Carson needs to throw the ball sooner, but on film no one is open on many of the sacks. 

Well worth watching. 

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11 hours ago, kentwo said:

Trench Talk

Was posted today. Tra did a great job highlighting a few things: 

  • Oline giving away run/pass plays simply by the way the have been setting up their feet. 
  • Seattle knew when Carson was going to be rolling out and played good discipline defense. 
  • He talked about sacks and how people keep saying Carson needs to throw the ball sooner, but on film no one is open on many of the sacks. 

Well worth watching. 

I actually made this appointment up in my all 22 breakdown. And five of the six sacks, no one was open. On three of his runs no one was open so he took off. 

I actually thought Seattle did a very good job disguising what they were running on defense. Besides a sack that Jamal Adams got where he did a delay blitz which he kind of showed you he was doing that. Also Bobby Wagner has been in the league for a while now and he still out there making place. That guy is still really good 

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