Weedeater Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 I know Roseman has been known over the years for some creative juggling, renegotiation of contracts, etc...to get around the cap. But it looks like something has got to give now and he wont be able to field a whole team next season unless he cuts every contract he can possibly cut and fill the rest of the roster with either rookie or veteran minimum contracts. Question is..... Does anyone know the worst an NFL franchise has ever been over the cap in history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipples Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Don’t know for sure but I seem to remember Washington being in cap hell back when they were constantly signing over the hill free agents to big contracts. Cowboys I believe we’re in rough shape when they had to let Demarcus Ware go because of cap problems. I think the Saints were in a bad spot a few years ago too. Believe that was a big reason they had to trade Jimmy Graham when he was one of the top 2-3 tight ends in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman#12 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Weedeater said: I know Roseman has been known over the years for some creative juggling, renegotiation of contracts, etc...to get around the cap. But it looks like something has got to give now and he wont be able to field a whole team next season unless he cuts every contract he can possibly cut and fill the rest of the roster with either rookie or veteran minimum contracts. Question is..... Does anyone know the worst an NFL franchise has ever been over the cap in history? I'm sure Roseman is not going to wake up after the season and realize the eagles are over the cap.......Howie has been one of the best cap managers in the NFL for years and to do that he must project 2-3 years into the future when negotiating new contracts.......I'm sure Roseman has a solution to the eagles cap situation even though to the fans and media, it may not be of their liking. I think Roseman knows a hell of a lot of fine details about the NFL salary cap rules than all of the fans and media. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 3 hours ago, birdman#12 said: I'm sure Roseman is not going to wake up after the season and realize the eagles are over the cap.......Howie has been one of the best cap managers in the NFL for years and to do that he must project 2-3 years into the future when negotiating new contracts.......I'm sure Roseman has a solution to the eagles cap situation even though to the fans and media, it may not be of their liking. I think Roseman knows a hell of a lot of fine details about the NFL salary cap rules than all of the fans and media. The salary cap isn't a secret - any fan or reporter can read it and interpret it - but fundamentally it's a formula related to revenue. This year it was almost $200 million dollars and has been going up by about $10 million a year for the last few year. Next year, however, it could drop by as much as $25 million because COVID drove revenue into the ground. The Eagles have a lot of big contracts next year and very few ways to get out from under. Something has to give. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/cap/2021/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricAllenPick6 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 I don't think it's going to be as hard to get under the cap as people think. Howie is going to release a bunch of obvious candidates (Alshon, DJax, maybe Hargrave), Ertz is probably going to opt out, too. That gives us about $30m. We are going to roll our unused 2020 cap into 2021 for an extra $20m. You restructure Brandon Graham and Fletcher Cox's deals and you're getting pretty close. You can beat up Howie for being a bad drafter, but he's pretty good at managing the cap. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 hour ago, EricAllenPick6 said: I don't think it's going to be as hard to get under the cap as people think. Howie is going to release a bunch of obvious candidates (Alshon, DJax, maybe Hargrave), Ertz is probably going to opt out, too. That gives us about $30m. We are going to roll our unused 2020 cap into 2021 for an extra $20m. You restructure Brandon Graham and Fletcher Cox's deals and you're getting pretty close. You can beat up Howie for being a bad drafter, but he's pretty good at managing the cap. That's not how it works. Cutting Jeffrey and Hargrave would cost $30 million in dead space. Spotrac has an interesting roster management tool that allows you to game out different cap scenarios for every team, if you're into that kind of thing. Which I am. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tools/roster/philadelphia-eagles/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathByEagle Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 They will get it figured out. They have players they can cut with ease. People keep forgetting about the waste of a player Goodwin which can be added to the cut list. Not to mention the number floating out there is a prediction of worse case. The NFL league/ownership will have a meeting and vote on the real number. Have a feeling it wont be as bad as everyone is getting worked up over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 6 hours ago, birdman#12 said: I'm sure Roseman is not going to wake up after the season and realize the eagles are over the cap.......Howie has been one of the best cap managers in the NFL for years and to do that he must project 2-3 years into the future when negotiating new contracts.......I'm sure Roseman has a solution to the eagles cap situation even though to the fans and media, it may not be of their liking. I think Roseman knows a hell of a lot of fine details about the NFL salary cap rules than all of the fans and media. I remember when I thought that too. Turns out he's actually just really good at kicking the can down the road. Turns out there's a roadblock at the end of 2020. Truth is, this team was in trouble with the cap, even if there wasn't a lower cap in 2021. That trouble was due to BAD CONTRACTS given to AGING PLAYERS that CAN'T PRODUCE. Alshon Jeffery - awful contract. Resigned after the Super Bowl... fine. Renegotiated after the 2018 season? For who? For what? He's now the 3rd highest cap hit on the team. And for that, we got 2 receptions for 30 yards and 1 TD on the season. Great job Howie. Oh, and when he gets cut next year, it will still cost the team another $10.5M in dead money. Desean Jackson - terrible contract. The Eagles traded for him, then gave him a new contract on top of that. During that time he's only been available for about 6 games for this team. Cost: 2 years, over $18M. 2019 only $3M, 2020 $8.6M, and when he's cut next year, he'll still be $5.8M in dead money. That's carrying over $16M in dead money for 2 overpriced, underproductive aging broken down WRs that won't even be on the roster next year. Bad contracts? How about the Brandon Brooks extension? Why give the biggest OG contract in the NFL to a guy who (is the best at his position when healthy) is a health risk moving forward? (The stats on players who pop one Achilles are at a higher risk to pop the other one... and the Eagles saw that FIRST HAND with Demeco Ryans, then Jordan Hicks, and then decided not to learn from that history and resigned Brooks to a HUGE new deal.) Another one? Jake Elliott... Howie decided to beat the system and lock up his young kicker for the long haul. Trouble is, very few kickers are consistent enough to trust with a long term deal like that. Elliott has the yips, but the team is locked in to him and can't afford to get out of his deal even if they wanted to... and so they are stuck with him next year... because they won't be eating extra money on his deal while simultaneously being in cap hell (thanks for that Howie!) Want some more? Look at the voided years at the end of Brandon Graham's contract, Jason Kelce's, Zach Ertz, and a few others. These are just giant dead money cap hits once the player is no longer even under contract. Howie gambled that the cap would just keep going up and up and up and up... Turns out his gamble backfired. And now the Eagles are in the 2nd worst cap situation of any team in the entire NFL. Only the Saints are in a worse position... and they are playing for a Super Bowl. The Eagles are playing for the toilet bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtfcares Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 6 hours ago, birdman#12 said: I'm sure Roseman is not going to wake up after the season and realize the eagles are over the cap.......Howie has been one of the best cap managers in the NFL for years and to do that he must project 2-3 years into the future when negotiating new contracts.......I'm sure Roseman has a solution to the eagles cap situation even though to the fans and media, it may not be of their liking. I think Roseman knows a hell of a lot of fine details about the NFL salary cap rules than all of the fans and media. This. While the cap is public information, next year is going to be a unique year because of COVID. I have no doubt that Howie is privy to way more information about what that is going to look like than the fans/media. There’s already been speculation that the NFL may allow teams to shed contracts without dead money, prorate the cap over numerous years, etc. When all the dust settles, Howie will once again magically make the cap work as he always has, meanwhile people will be saying "he got lucky”. If only he was as good at drafting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 23 minutes ago, wtfcares said: This. While the cap is public information, next year is going to be a unique year because of COVID. I have no doubt that Howie is privy to way more information about what that is going to look like than the fans/media. There’s already been speculation that the NFL may allow teams to shed contracts without dead money, prorate the cap over numerous years, etc. When all the dust settles, Howie will once again magically make the cap work as he always has, meanwhile people will be saying "he got lucky”. If only he was as good at drafting... Oh.... so, you think that the Alshon and Desean contracts carrying $16M in dead money next year is a good thing. That's bad cap management even if the cap went up by 50%. $16M is a top flight pass rusher... top flight WR... or 2 average WRs (wouldn't it be nice to have even 1 legitimate NFL quality WR on the roster that plays more than 4 games?) Or another CB? or safety? or both. And that's not counting the dead money Howie has on the books for 2022, due to contracts ending in 2021, but the prorated signing bonuses hitting in 2022. That's bad management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtfcares Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 28 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said: Oh.... so, you think that the Alshon and Desean contracts carrying $16M in dead money next year is a good thing. That's bad cap management even if the cap went up by 50%. $16M is a top flight pass rusher... top flight WR... or 2 average WRs (wouldn't it be nice to have even 1 legitimate NFL quality WR on the roster that plays more than 4 games?) Or another CB? or safety? or both. And that's not counting the dead money Howie has on the books for 2022, due to contracts ending in 2021, but the prorated signing bonuses hitting in 2022. That's bad management. Wait and see my friend. Even going into last offseason we were looking to not be in good shape to do anything because of cap and we still ended up getting signing Hargrave, trading for and signing Slay to the highest CB contract, and resigning McLeod. We can look forward and worry about cap all we want, but Howie has proved year after year he has it figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, wtfcares said: Wait and see my friend. Even going into last offseason we were looking to not be in good shape to do anything because of cap and we still ended up getting signing Hargrave, trading for and signing Slay to the highest CB contract, and resigning McLeod. We can look forward and worry about cap all we want, but Howie has proved year after year he has it figured out. Yup... because he put the big hits into 2021. And frankly, none of those moves would have been as useful as bringing in a WR like Robbie Anderson. He spent more money for a DT, when we already had big money allocated at DT. Spent money AND draft capital to bring in Slay, as his skills started to deteriorate (not many CBs continue to be at the top of their game when they reach 30 (guess how old Slay will be next year), and spent big money on McLeod with his 2021 salary fully guaranteed. All of this he did knowing the Covid was here and likely to impact the season in some way (and therefore, the cap moving forward). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eglz1 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 1 hour ago, DeathByEagle said: They will get it figured out. They have players they can cut with ease. People keep forgetting about the waste of a player Goodwin which can be added to the cut list. Not to mention the number floating out there is a prediction of worse case. The NFL league/ownership will have a meeting and vote on the real number. Have a feeling it wont be as bad as everyone is getting worked up over There was talk to spreading the 2020 revenue hit over a few years at least for cap purposes. Banking on there not being 2 or more horrible revenue years in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Those saying Howie will figure it out sound like the passengers on the Titanic... "Not to worry, they told us this ship was unsinkable... and it hasn't sunk yet, so we should be good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle_nj Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 Member that season where the Raiders could only roster 47 guys because they were over the cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devaster Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said: Those saying Howie will figure it out sound like the passengers on the Titanic... "Not to worry, they told us this ship was unsinkable... and it hasn't sunk yet, so we should be good." I'm not really worried, however I've lost all confidence in the front office evaluating players both in the draft and free agency. There is a lot that can be done to the cap. And the team could offload Wentz's contract if another team was willing to trade for him. And there will be willing teams in the market for a QB. Even the Colts with Reich could go after him. Eagles will be fine if they go with Hurts as well because he is on a cheap rookie contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain F Posted December 19, 2020 Share Posted December 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Hawkeye said: Next year, however, it could drop by as much as $25 million because COVID drove revenue into the ground. The Eagles have a lot of big contracts next year and very few ways to get out from under. The nfl and nflpa will have to come up with something. If the cap drops 25m, there are going to be a lot of teams significantly over the cap. The nfl isn't going to make every team cut big name players due to a cap drop like that. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of protection clause added next year that allows each team to keep a certain number of players that are already under contract, but not count them against the cap. Or, make $xxxxxxxx amount of current salaries exempt from the cap. I don't really see an alternative. What are teams going to do if not? Cut big contract players, then those players can't get their value anywhere else because the entire league is hogtied? Never going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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