I love it!  You guys do good work!

I feel so challenged right now. I really want to try and finish the bay cottage by May 24.  Today is also 2 yrs since his cousins family had the same cancer death in their family.  I miss them both.  It’s really surreal. It’s a bad day for me but I have tomorrow, pills and alcohol to get it done. Some days you just have to go to sleep at 8 pm.  Other days not so much.  It’s a lot of deep breaths.  

Sorry Di - hang in there. And I say try to focus on getting that project done by the May date! Sometimes projects can drag on too long and you just have to make that final push. It can be difficult and intense but so much relief when it’s finished.

This weekend, the goal is to paint the guest room and install a ceiling fan (or if its not in stock in time, at least get the bracket and wiring ready).  Back in early February, it took me all damn day to do this:

  

On 2/6/2021 at 10:42 PM, paco said:

Putting a fan in the nursery, but unfortunately there is nothing but ceiling.  So I spent a good portion of the day running wire, fixing blowout patches and putting in the ceiling fan mount. 
 

oh, and not falling through the bleeping ceiling. 
 

Tomorrow I’m installing the actual fan, so for now this is all I have to show for it:
 

 

Given some lessons learned on the project, I'm going to attempt to get the bracket and wiring done in under 3 hours.  

Lesson learned #1:  Instead of trying to get it flush through trial and error, cut the damn hole, screw some particle board up against the ceiling and then drop the bracket through the hole.  Is it touching the particle board?  Yes?  Good, you're flush.  Done.  There are screw holes on either side of the box?  Throw some joint compound on it.  Or don't.  Because who cares, the fan mount is going to hide it.  Wasted at least an hour trying to get that part right.

Lesson Learned #2:  Instead of running a new wire from switch to fan, hack what's there.  In the other room, there was a 14/3 wire going from the switch to an outlet on the other side of the room to make the bottom of the two turn on and off with the switch.  The plan was to tie them together in the switch box and run a separate wire off of the hot wire through that switch and to the fan.  Yeah, that worked.  It also took HOURS because I had to drill through multiple studs, cut a hole in the drywall, etc etc etc.  New plan:  Assuming the guest room is the same, find the wire in the ceiling that is going to that switch (assuming its the same layout).  Cut that F'r in half and strip back the casing.  Then, hook up the incoming black to the outgoing red and black, so the outlet is always hot. And then hook the incoming red to the outgoing black to the fan.  Now I don't have to spend several hours running wire nor need to wait on painting the room because I have to patch drywall.  Oh, and I'm using a LOT less wire this way. (Granted, I have to use a junction box (I have a dozen laying around) and two romex connectors (Literally have hundreds somehow))  The real kick in the balls was I came up with this idea about two hours after I finished the nursery job

 

 

Moving day is saturday... i feel a weekend of projects upon me 😁

2 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

Moving day is saturday... i feel a weekend of projects upon me 😁

First home or just a new home where you move in and have to change EVERYTHING  

2 minutes ago, paco said:

First home or just a new home where you move in and have to change EVERYTHING  

Combining houses from apartments to a single story duplex... one year or so there and then we gotta do it again. So the latter of the two i suppose😄

33 minutes ago, QBhunter58 said:

Combining houses from apartments to a single story duplex... one year or so there and then we gotta do it again. So the latter of the two i suppose😄

Holy crap, you weren't kidding   

@paco, I don't think I'm following your plan for wiring the fan in your guest room... If you tie into the wire going to the switch, the fan will always be hot and won't be controlled with the switch... Is that what you're going for or do I not understand your plan?  

I just installed a ceiling fan in my daughter's bedroom and had to do similar to what you described.  I drilled a hole in the top of the switch box, ran a steel fish tape up through that hole and found about where it was hitting the header boards for that wall (interior, not load bearing). Drilled a hole down through the header and worked with my wife to get the fish tape lined up with the the hole. Used a hook to "grab" the fish tape through the hole and pull the end up through. Was a real PITA but the only hole I had to cut in the drywall was for the fan box in the ceiling. 

This is not an option if you don't have exposed rafters/open space above the ceiling of course...

55 minutes ago, Imp81318 said:

@paco, I don't think I'm following your plan for wiring the fan in your guest room... If you tie into the wire going to the switch, the fan will always be hot and won't be controlled with the switch... Is that what you're going for or do I not understand your plan?  

I just installed a ceiling fan in my daughter's bedroom and had to do similar to what you described.  I drilled a hole in the top of the switch box, ran a steel fish tape up through that hole and found about where it was hitting the header boards for that wall (interior, not load bearing). Drilled a hole down through the header and worked with my wife to get the fish tape lined up with the the hole. Used a hook to "grab" the fish tape through the hole and pull the end up through. Was a real PITA but the only hole I had to cut in the drywall was for the fan box in the ceiling. 

This is not an option if you don't have exposed rafters/open space above the ceiling of course...

The old plan was to tie the two wires together, making the outlet always hot, and run a new wire to the fan.  Thats what I did in the nursery.

 

The new plan is to leave the switch as it is, break the line in the ceiling, tie the two to the outlet together making it always hot and run a new wire to the switched wire in the fan.

 

Basically this is what it looks like today

And this is what it will be when I'm done

 

5 hours ago, paco said:

The old plan was to tie the two wires together, making the outlet always hot, and run a new wire to the fan.  Thats what I did in the nursery.

 

The new plan is to leave the switch as it is, break the line in the ceiling, tie the two to the outlet together making it always hot and run a new wire to the switched wire in the fan.

 

Basically this is what it looks like today

And this is what it will be when I'm done

 

Gotcha. Yeah, that wouldn't work in my situation because the feed line to the switch runs through the attic, but the from the switch to outlet is run through the wall rather than above the ceiling. So the only way for me to junction into the wire in the attic would be to run always hot to the fan because it would be before the switch. 

That's definitely an easier and preferred solution for you though. 

There's a giant ceiling fan hanging over my bed collecting dust for about 4 years now.  No power to it, same thing, only 1 switch, has to be wired up in the attic, or always hot.  True story.  Something else un done.  Good luck

1 hour ago, DiPros said:

There's a giant ceiling fan hanging over my bed collecting dust for about 4 years now.  No power to it, same thing, only 1 switch, has to be wired up in the attic, or always hot.  True story.  Something else un done.  Good luck

That shouldn't be too tricky of a fix.  Either the power got disconnected in the switch box or in the fan itself.

On 3/25/2021 at 3:05 PM, paco said:

This weekend, the goal is to paint the guest room and install a ceiling fan (or if its not in stock in time, at least get the bracket and wiring ready).  Back in early February, it took me all damn day to do this:

  

 

Given some lessons learned on the project, I'm going to attempt to get the bracket and wiring done in under 3 hours.  

Lesson learned #1:  Instead of trying to get it flush through trial and error, cut the damn hole, screw some particle board up against the ceiling and then drop the bracket through the hole.  Is it touching the particle board?  Yes?  Good, you're flush.  Done.  There are screw holes on either side of the box?  Throw some joint compound on it.  Or don't.  Because who cares, the fan mount is going to hide it.  Wasted at least an hour trying to get that part right.

Lesson Learned #2:  Instead of running a new wire from switch to fan, hack what's there.  In the other room, there was a 14/3 wire going from the switch to an outlet on the other side of the room to make the bottom of the two turn on and off with the switch.  The plan was to tie them together in the switch box and run a separate wire off of the hot wire through that switch and to the fan.  Yeah, that worked.  It also took HOURS because I had to drill through multiple studs, cut a hole in the drywall, etc etc etc.  New plan:  Assuming the guest room is the same, find the wire in the ceiling that is going to that switch (assuming its the same layout).  Cut that F'r in half and strip back the casing.  Then, hook up the incoming black to the outgoing red and black, so the outlet is always hot. And then hook the incoming red to the outgoing black to the fan.  Now I don't have to spend several hours running wire nor need to wait on painting the room because I have to patch drywall.  Oh, and I'm using a LOT less wire this way. (Granted, I have to use a junction box (I have a dozen laying around) and two romex connectors (Literally have hundreds somehow))  The real kick in the balls was I came up with this idea about two hours after I finished the nursery job

 

 

Got 'er done in under 3 hours.  Which thank god, because I couldn't spend another minute in that hot ass attic

Got a few hours in at the beach.  Hung insulation.  Owner dropped off the larger 24" rolls for the ceiling so we put them inside before we left.  Sister in law (Mr. Di's sis) taped and spackled 2 bathroom walls we have up.  I thought we could hang the bathroom ceiling, but alas until the other wall is up it wouldn't be right so will have to do it last.  I know nothing.  Glad at least the people around me know what the heck they're doing.  Still figuring out the plumbing.  How and who the heck is going to do it.   Daughter did some general clean up around outside. Loaded up the last cabinet to haul home and paint it.  My son already has it started.

We are close to having the juice turned on.  Hopefully this week!  Found out the hot water heater will not fit  in the base cabinet.  Back to the drawing board.  My brother and son have thoughts of building a platform for it, but I think it's better off on the damn floor and build a cabinet/wall around it.  At least I'll have counter space on top.  We also need to run #10 wire to it, and of course, the extra wire we had slated for this hook up is #12.  That's what they provided.  I'll feel so much better when we have electricity and water.  I also forgot about a ceiling fan and an exhaust fan for the bathroom.  If the owner brings over the exhaust fan I'll put it in.  If not, I really don't care, there's a window in the room.  Told them I already have a ceiling fan in a box that they do not need to provide one.  Brother going to help me a few hours this Saturday.

 

Just hope you all were careful up there. Very tricky on it

 

Wiring diagram looks good, Paco. Only other thing I would have done differently is brought power to the switch and put a two-gang box in so one switch is for the light and one for the fan. It's how I did all four bedrooms. Originally they had just fans, no lights, and the switch-controlled outlets like you had.

1 hour ago, IFB DOG said:

Wiring diagram looks good, Paco. Only other thing I would have done differently is brought power to the switch and put a two-gang box in so one switch is for the light and one for the fan. It's how I did all four bedrooms. Originally they had just fans, no lights, and the switch-controlled outlets like you had.

That would have worked but I didn’t have space for a second one. It is in a small angled wall shoved between two studs. Plus there is the risk of ruining the drywall and I had to paint the next day.

 

 But that is a good idea and I’m going to bank that for another time.

4 hours ago, paco said:

That would have worked but I didn’t have space for a second one. It is in a small angled wall shoved between two studs. Plus there is the risk of ruining the drywall and I had to paint the next day.

 

 But that is a good idea and I’m going to bank that for another time.

You can either run two separate 12- or 14-2 if that is all you have, or you can run one 12- / 14-3. 

 

With 12/14-2, at the fan/light you would tie the two neutrals from the individual wires to the neutral from the fan/light and grounds together. Then one romex black to the fan power and one romex black to the light power.

With 12/14-3, you only have one white but a black and usually red wire. At the fan/light, same concept but instead of three neutrals tied together, you'd only have two. Then, you would have the black and red go to the fan and light power respectively. Back at the switches - as long as they are in the same two-gang box - you would pig tail the white neutral to both switches (like a Y) and pig tail the grounds to both, and then red wire to one and black to the other. 

In the event that you have to use a second box, you MUST go route one, with two cables.

2 hours ago, IFB DOG said:

You can either run two separate 12- or 14-2 if that is all you have, or you can run one 12- / 14-3. 

 

With 12/14-2, at the fan/light you would tie the two neutrals from the individual wires to the neutral from the fan/light and grounds together. Then one romex black to the fan power and one romex black to the light power.

With 12/14-3, you only have one white but a black and usually red wire. At the fan/light, same concept but instead of three neutrals tied together, you'd only have two. Then, you would have the black and red go to the fan and light power respectively. Back at the switches - as long as they are in the same two-gang box - you would pig tail the white neutral to both switches (like a Y) and pig tail the grounds to both, and then red wire to one and black to the other. 

In the event that you have to use a second box, you MUST go route one, with two cables.

Agrreed.  That all makes sense and would be how I would do that in the future.  

 

In this case, this wouldn't be an option due to space.  (and I'm not putting in one of those outlet looking double switches).  On the other side of the wall there is a switch and they are basically bumping up against each other.

Bedroom:

 

Hallway:

 

 

So you could use an old-work box, which uses two pressure wings to hold the box to the drywall, or get a two-gang deep box and you wouldn't have the gap between the switches.  People generally prefer that if they are for the same object (ie. fan/light). 

On 3/25/2021 at 3:05 PM, paco said:

This weekend, the goal is to paint the guest room and install a ceiling fan (or if its not in stock in time, at least get the bracket and wiring ready).  Back in early February, it took me all damn day to do this:

  

 

Given some lessons learned on the project, I'm going to attempt to get the bracket and wiring done in under 3 hours.  

Lesson learned #1:  Instead of trying to get it flush through trial and error, cut the damn hole, screw some particle board up against the ceiling and then drop the bracket through the hole.  Is it touching the particle board?  Yes?  Good, you're flush.  Done.  There are screw holes on either side of the box?  Throw some joint compound on it.  Or don't.  Because who cares, the fan mount is going to hide it.  Wasted at least an hour trying to get that part right.

Lesson Learned #2:  Instead of running a new wire from switch to fan, hack what's there.  In the other room, there was a 14/3 wire going from the switch to an outlet on the other side of the room to make the bottom of the two turn on and off with the switch.  The plan was to tie them together in the switch box and run a separate wire off of the hot wire through that switch and to the fan.  Yeah, that worked.  It also took HOURS because I had to drill through multiple studs, cut a hole in the drywall, etc etc etc.  New plan:  Assuming the guest room is the same, find the wire in the ceiling that is going to that switch (assuming its the same layout).  Cut that F'r in half and strip back the casing.  Then, hook up the incoming black to the outgoing red and black, so the outlet is always hot. And then hook the incoming red to the outgoing black to the fan.  Now I don't have to spend several hours running wire nor need to wait on painting the room because I have to patch drywall.  Oh, and I'm using a LOT less wire this way. (Granted, I have to use a junction box (I have a dozen laying around) and two romex connectors (Literally have hundreds somehow))  The real kick in the balls was I came up with this idea about two hours after I finished the nursery job

 

 

How much experience do you have in electrical work?  All of this sounds somewhat easy, which tells me that maybe I can do that stuff myself, but then again, one wrong move may result in the house burning down.

2 hours ago, xzmattzx said:

How much experience do you have in electrical work?  All of this sounds somewhat easy, which tells me that maybe I can do that stuff myself, but then again, one wrong move may result in the house burning down.

Did some wiring for the first time in 2017 when I put in some recessed lighting in our beach condo plus put in a new GFCI in the kitchen.  The latter only electrocuted schmoopie twice.

 

But yeah, once you learn the basics, including safety*, it’s easy. Doing something from scratch takes more experience, such ask knowing to go with 12 or 14 gauge wire.  The application is easy but properly setting it up takes a bit more knowledge 

 

 

*Perfect example.  Last night I was adding an outlet into, what I'm calling" a "super pantry" in my basement.  Pretty easy job, I already had 12 gauge wire running into the area, so I was going to add an outlet with it.  Had an electrician put a two pull switch in the box for me (that I WONT do), one for the entertainment area and one for the office area.  I flip the office area switch off and go to handle the wire.  Stopped for a second, and tested it.   Hot.  Went back and realized in my hurry I pulled the switch right above it instead of the correct one.  Saved me a zap. Always, always test.

4 hours ago, IFB DOG said:

So you could use an old-work box, which uses two pressure wings to hold the box to the drywall, or get a two-gang deep box and you wouldn't have the gap between the switches.  People generally prefer that if they are for the same object (ie. fan/light). 

I know, I've used them before.  For the basement remodel we use to have just 3 lights in the ceiling (looked like pizza hut lights) for the entire basement.  I put in recessed lighting and expanded it to 4 sections containing between 2-5 lights each.  Where the original switch for the overhead lights plus the outside flood light, I took out that box and put in an old work 3 gang box.

 

The problem I am running into is there is a switch on each side of the wall, and because of that, there is physically no room to add a two gang in the bedroom.  I probably wasn't clear with my pictures of the bedroom and the hallway, but the drawing of a switch I did shows the position of the switch on the other side of the wall.  I measured it out and I couldn't fit a two gang box in the wall.

 

I may have confused you by my drywall repair comment, I just meant I can be a bit clumsy with my sawzaw and have cut well past the nail and up the drywall before  

Ohhh I see. Yeah, makes sense. That's stinky.

Like me posting from the office bathroom. 🤷‍♂️ 💩

I just cleared my phone of the old pictures, but when get home I'll snap a picture of the basement lights I did and the bedroom ceiling fans. In one room, I had to raise the height of the switch because of that issue and put a blank plate over the old one (NEVER drywall over it... it's against code).