Pre-pandemic, my goal was to be so successful and spend so much time away from the family that my kids would think we we're being robbed when I came home from work.

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I think the claim that "most people think successful people have it easy" is quite a strawman. 

I also think that equating compensation levels to hard work is also far too simple. Laziness virtually guarantees failure, but hard work is no guarantee of success. 

I work hard. But I could probably work much harder. I just happen to be very good at what I do, so I can put in relatively little effort and spend much of my day arguing with people on a football team's message board, and still have an income that would make my mother blush if she knew. That makes me very comfortable, but not rich. 

I also know people who work incredibly hard, but frankly they lost the genetic lottery so no matter how hard they work their ceiling is around the 33 percentile. 

It's certainly fair to say that people who want work/life balance need to accept career and compensation limitations that come with it. People also need to accept that their abilities (and inabilities) will also go a long way towards dictating their success, and adjust expectations accordingly.

You should be proud of being incredibly successful, and I would never begrudge you for your success, but a strong work ethic and working hard is not the sole domain of the 1%.

In the specific case of teachers, my kids' teachers throughout last summer and continuing through this year have been available pretty much every waking hour for their classes (I have gotten responses within minutes from emails I sent them at 10pm and 6am), and have put in a lot of time they normally would not need to pre-COVID to help maintain multiple methods of teaching simultaneously (virtual, in person with distancing, and asynchronous). This after spending the bulk of the summer adapting the curriculum to meet the challenges of schooling during a pandemic, needing to be prepared depending on how the pandemic went. Yet there are still parents out there that think the teachers are having it easier during the pandemic, which is objectively false, and they are not getting any sort of additional compensation beyond the normal for their efforts. 

100% agree. When people ask me about how to maximize their earning potential, it's a combination of factors.

1. Look into the fields that interest you and pick out the one that pays well. You can't go be a teacher, know what the pay is, and then cry about how you are criminally underpaid. For me, I like numbers and risk taking. So finance was obvious. 

2. Have a career path laid out BEFORE going to college, but be adaptable. When I went to school, it was going to be banking and then private equity. I had no idea what a hedge fund was. But I knew the plan -- work insane hours in banking, be at the top of the class, then go get paid on the buy side. 

3. Maximize your lucky breaks. Anyone who doesn't admit luck and chance play a part is lying. The key is -- we all will get a lucky break now and again, and you can't fail to maximize it. My analogy -- don't miss the hanging curve ball. When the chance to partner up with a much wealthier guy in a family office structure came along, I jumped at it and created the business we have now. Had I just kept running my own hedge fund, I wouldn't be nearly as successful. DON'T MISS THE FAT PITCH.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

100% agree. When people ask me about how to maximize their earning potential, it's a combination of factors.

1. Look into the fields that interest you and pick out the one that pays well. You can't go be a teacher, know what the pay is, and then cry about how you are criminally underpaid. For me, I like numbers and risk taking. So finance was obvious. 

2. Have a career path laid out BEFORE going to college, but be adaptable. When I went to school, it was going to be banking and then private equity. I had no idea what a hedge fund was. But I knew the plan -- work insane hours in banking, be at the top of the class, then go get paid on the buy side. 

3. Maximize your lucky breaks. Anyone who doesn't admit luck and chance play a part is lying. The key is -- we all will get a lucky break now and again, and you can't fail to maximize it. My analogy -- don't miss the hanging curve ball. When the chance to partner up with a much wealthier guy in a family office structure came along, I jumped at it and created the business we have now. Had I just kept running my own hedge fund, I wouldn't be nearly as successful. DON'T MISS THE FAT PITCH.

1 & 2 are areas I feel like so many students miss. I mostly blame parents in this, because they just want little Johnny to find himself and "be happy" when he's heading off to college; it isn't until he's a burnout in his 3rd year after changing majors twice and settling in "communications" that they think "maybe we should have had a plan". 

I do think the current generation - i.e. kids currently in the 18-22 age group - are being made more aware of the pitfalls of entering college without a career plan in mind. (FWIW many of these are children of our generation, which I don't think is coincidence) It's all well and good to see college as an experience in rounding yourself out and coming out the other side with a wealth of general knowledge to take on the world - of your parents are wealthy and you don't need to go into debt. For most college students, you need to be more pragmatic: what are my financial limitations? Academically, am I likely to be successful as a college student? What careers do my natural abilities and limitations dictate higher likelihoods of success? 

#3 is also super important, and one that many successful people frequently reject. I'd be lying to myself if I didn't think luck played a role in some of my success. Obviously I made it happen, but the opportunities that present themselves - and the timing of them (are you in a place where you're ready to jump at an opportunity) - can be the difference between doing well and doing "I HAVE EF YOU MONEY" well.

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

1 & 2 are areas I feel like so many students miss. I mostly blame parents in this, because they just want little Johnny to find himself and "be happy" when he's heading off to college; it isn't until he's a burnout in his 3rd year after changing majors twice and settling in "communications" that they think "maybe we should have had a plan". 

I do think the current generation - i.e. kids currently in the 18-22 age group - are being made more aware of the pitfalls of entering college without a career plan in mind. (FWIW many of these are children of our generation, which I don't think is coincidence) It's all well and good to see college as an experience in rounding yourself out and coming out the other side with a wealth of general knowledge to take on the world - of your parents are wealthy and you don't need to go into debt. For most college students, you need to be more pragmatic: what are my financial limitations? Academically, am I likely to be successful as a college student? What careers do my natural abilities and limitations dictate higher likelihoods of success? 

#3 is also super important, and one that many successful people frequently reject. I'd be lying to myself if I didn't think luck played a role in some of my success. Obviously I made it happen, but the opportunities that present themselves - and the timing of them (are you in a place where you're ready to jump at an opportunity) - can be the difference between doing well and doing "I HAVE EF YOU MONEY" well.

I can't stand people who won't admit that luck is a part of the equation. The most successful people I know accept this, but they also pushed their chips in when they got the break. Everyone has good and bad luck, but the key is maximizing the opportunities when you get a break while minimizing the damage when it goes against you.

Just now, vikas83 said:

I can't stand people who won't admit that luck is a part of the equation. The most successful people I know accept this, but they also pushed their chips in when they got the break. Everyone has good and bad luck, but the key is maximizing the opportunities when you get a break while minimizing the damage when it goes against you.

So you're saying you pushed all in on $GME?

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

I think this is the first season where Ive done it. Some of the games were so hopelessly boring. There's only so many 3 and outs with negative yards, or Carson fumbles I can take. 

Same.

 

Hell, the final game of the season I fell asleep before the end of it.  My BAC and I decided "F it, I'm out"

24 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

1. Look into the fields that interest you and pick out the one that pays well. You can't go be a teacher, know what the pay is, and then cry about how you are criminally underpaid. For me, I like numbers and risk taking. So finance was obvious. 

They deserve to be paid 6 figures for working 3/4's of the year!!!!!!!  THE CHILDREN!!!!!

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Paul852 said:

That's fine. However, you've ruined the country. Good going.

My Dad was a boomer.  His dad ran off on his family so my Dad helped support his mom and younger sister by working in a factory during high school.  He missed out on playing after school sports.  After high school he continued working there while putting himself through college, eventually worked his way up to an executive and was there a long time.  

He never worked late.  He volunteered to coach all 3 of his sons in sports and was at every game if he wasn't the coach.  If he had work to do late, he did it after dinner/after we were in bed.  He made family a priority and still got promoted and salary increases.  He wanted to be the dad he never had, and he was and more.  

At his funeral, so many people talked about what a difference he made in their lives.  My mom's cousin came up to us with tears in his eyes and said how my Dad showed him an example of how to be a great Dad and still be a good worker (this man also rose up high in his company).  My dad was a father to those who never had one.  There were kids on our sports teams whose parents never showed up. We would pick kids up and drive them home after practice and games.  Their parents weren't there.  He volunteered with church and spent time with his family.

My Dad later got into real estate for semi-retirement to have a change of pace.  He saw how people would lie and cheat and be cut throat, trying to steal the best customers, paying off the receptionist to screen people and send the good ones to them, etc.  My dad chose to be a person of integrity and not be ruled by money.  He made money and was successful...and kept his soul.  

He was a boomer, he came from "the greatest generation" and had strong work ethic... and strong family values and integrity.

12 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I can't stand people who won't admit that luck is a part of the equation. The most successful people I know accept this, but they also pushed their chips in when they got the break. Everyone has good and bad luck, but the key is maximizing the opportunities when you get a break while minimizing the damage when it goes against you.

I got an amazing job right out of college because one of my old frat brothers yelled "Yo Paco" while I was on my way out the door of a job fair.   I stopped, turned around, secured a first interview and went from there. 

 

I had no idea the company did what I was looking to do and he had no idea I would be there.  Pure luck

54 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

  If you’re a working class person who has to work to pay bills so you can’t go to your kids games that’s one thing.  But if you’re someone making $200k or $300k a year and you don’t go to any of your kids games because you’re a workaholic then that’s kind of pathetic.

Isn’t that the plot of most 80’s movies?

All shifts will continue to exist until otherwise indicated.

35 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I think the claim that "most people think successful people have it easy" is quite a strawman. 

I also think that equating compensation levels to hard work is also far too simple. Laziness virtually guarantees failure, but hard work is no guarantee of success. 

For every generalization about lazy, untrustworthy people we can also talk about those that had things handed to them or don't actually work as hard.  People who get into the right schools, internships and jobs because of who they know.  We've all had co-workers or managers who weren't good at their jobs but somehow survived (see Howie Roseman).

My last company was a commercial insurance broker.  The sales people had staff that did all the work, and the sales people would walk in and give the pitch and close the deal, then the staff would do all the follow up work and support the client.  We had an older guy who was terrible at technology and couldn't figure out how to fill out his benefits forms.  He would wander into HR and ask how to do basic, simple things.  He wanted his assistants to do it for him but he had to sign things himself for compliance.  He couldn't find his way back to his office without someone escorting him.

But when he was in the room with the client, he could do his sales pitch.  

Would he handle being a teacher with 30 young kids?  Is he "working harder" than a social worker dealing with families in crisis?  Could he handle hours a day of computer programming code and building technology?  No.

So to say others aren't working hard is ignorant.  Everyone has different skill levels, experience and natural abilities.  And some people if put in a different situation would look foolish and incompetent, realizing what it takes.

I was sent home to work today.  Internet is crashed.  Basically all I'm doing today is email and phone calls.  Do I feel bad?  No, I'm old and slowing down. I quit a higher paying, higher pressure job 5 years ago and I love it.  I need benefits from a full time job, however.  My particular dept. has recently become worrisome as our workload has slowed.  I've put word out that I'd like more to do to stay busy.  They just hired another project mgr.  That area of the business is doing really well.  Maybe one day I can be an assistant to one of them.  Not liking the unknown, but feel I need to assert myself and not just milk the salary.  Which if I told you what I make, you'd all laugh.  Just me now, so less is best, there will be next to nothing to clean up after I'm gone.  Leaving my kids a few grand each.  It's something but not much.   Having no debt feels really good.  Never would have imagined I'd be a minimalist.

From the 4 hour workweek 

They don't do 9-5 in Japan.  It is more like 10-10.  I did quite a bit of business there and M-T there is a rush hour in Tokyo from 9:30-10:30 and the subways are jammed packed.  No wonder they sleep during meetings.  They are in the office but their productivity per hour is sheet.

46 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

They don't do 9-5 in Japan.  It is more like 10-10.  I did quite a bit of business there and M-T there is a rush hour in Tokyo from 9:30-10:30 and the subways are jammed packed.  No wonder they sleep during meetings.  They are in the office but their productivity per hour is sheet.

Doesn't surprise me that their productivity is sheet if they work those kinds of hours. I'd be interested to know what the analysis says around flexible working and whether that helps productivity. 

Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Doesn't surprise me that their productivity is sheet if they work those kinds of hours. I'd be interested to know what the analysis says around flexible working and whether that helps productivity. 

To be fair this I can only talk about the tech sector there.  Not sure what it is like for other sectors there.

9-5 still exists...

... in the world of government contracting.

3 minutes ago, CountBlah said:

9-5 still exists...

... in the world of government contracting.

In the world of civil servants you mean. The contractors are the ones who put in the hours.

5 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

In the world of civil servants you mean. The contractors are the ones who put in the hours.

I'm talking contractors.  It all depends on the contract  

They're out there, at least on this side of the pond.

1 minute ago, CountBlah said:

I'm talking contractors.  It all depends on the contract  

They're out there, at least on this side of the pond.

Ah OK fair enough. I guess it depends on what you mean by contractor too to be fair. 

11 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Ah OK fair enough. I guess it depends on what you mean by contractor too to be fair. 

Before that, my most recent job was with an e-commerce company.  14 years, of which the last 12 were working from home(pants options variety), during development/DevOps/DBA/Overseeing all development/Planning/etc...    THAT was not a 9-5 job, all website work was done in the middle of the night to minimize loss of orders.  Marketing pukes complained that the site was too restrictive, so we gave them groovy scripting to make it more dynamic,  so what do they invariably do?  F-off until late on Friday to get their abominations out the door for the weekend/Monday.  So who do they call when they can't count to twenty without taking off their shoes?   *This Guy*

I stuck with it for so long, because I had skin the game.  But it sure as F wasn't worth it.  So glad I worked my way into what I am doing now.  I can actually leave at a normal hour and get appreciated for working hard. 

My company just announced that work from home is permanent. 

Spain will experiment with four-day workweek, a first for Europe

For years, advocates for a four-day workweek have argued that a compressed schedule could lead to more productivity and a better work-life balance — a perspective that has gained credence in some countries amid the coronavirus pandemic, which has wrought drastic changes to the way people work.

Spain is about to find out firsthand whether it works. The country is poised to become one of the first to experiment with a 32-hour workweek, which would allow workers to spend less time at the office without any change in pay.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/03/15/spain-four-day-workweek/

No.

It still isn't dead as long as millions still work it in the USA.