41 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Of course it won't go away and only get worse. We have an entire system that is funded by a small few to buy the votes of the masses. There is nothing funnier than people lile Liz Warren screeching about the rich paying their fair share when (i) the rich are the only ones paying and (ii) we already have the most progressive income tax system in the developed world. But I agree it will only get worse because people have decided state sponsored theft is legitimate, and it will lead the eventual decline of American exceptionalism. 

Welcome to one of the two primary reasons I don't have children. The other being...children are annoying AF.

you just dont like it that so many of them are taller than you...

26 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

So go get a new job, and stop being poor.

(Am I doing this right?)

work - acquire marketable skills - get better work - repeat

but that takes time, effort, sacrifice and risk.

instead, we get policy akin to "stage 3 is profit"

Republicans don't support Unions. Republicans don't support Workers' Rights. Republicans don't support health insurance for workers. Go Suck on it TJ.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/04/30/senate-republicans-block-minimum-wage-increase-bill/

https://labor411.org/411-blog/despite-98-of-house-republicans-voting-no-15-minimum-wage-bill-passes-the-house/

https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/brad-bannon/2013/01/03/gop-assault-on-unions-will-prove-costly

https://www.hpae.org/2016/07/dems-support-republicans-oppose-workers-rights-unions-party-platforms/

, the Republic Party platform sees unions as a threat to "freedom in the workplace” and urges elected officials across the country to pass laws which limit collective bargaining rights. Republicans continue to support so-called "right to work” laws and oppose any efforts to make the process of union organizing less difficult.

https://www.epi.org/publication/the-trump-administrations-attacks-on-workplace-union-voting-rights-forewarned-of-the-broader-threats-to-voting-rights-in-the-upcoming-election/

Here are just some of the actions taken by the Trump NLRB that have or seek to reverse reforms made under the Obama administration:

• Suspended union elections for a period early in the coronavirus pandemic, affecting 195 elections petitions with nearly 17,000 workers seeking to unionize.
• Implemented provisions in a "representation case procedures rule” that will make union elections take longer and be more likely to involve unnecessary litigation.
• Issued a decision making it easier for employers to manipulate and change the bargaining unit sought by employees, and by this gerrymandering, create a unit of eligible voters less likely to vote for a union.
• Issued a rule requiring employers who voluntarily recognize a union selected by a majority of their employees to post a notice that the union has been recognized but that employees have a 
• 
  https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/04/democrats-reintroduce-pro-act-labor-rights-bill-during-covid-pandemic.html

• The legislation would:

  Allow the National Labor Relations Board to levy fines against employers who violate workers’ rights
• Give employees more power to participate in strikes
• Weaken so-called right to work laws
• Offer certain independent contractors the protections held by employees
• 
  Republicans and major business groups have opposed it, making its passage in the Senate doubtful.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/other/352587-timeline-the-gop-effort-to-repeal-and-replace-obamacare
 

100 times the GOP House has voted to kill the Affordable Care Act and take away Health Insurance from Workers. 
https://howmanytimeshasthehousevotedtorepealobamacare.com/

 

 

of course we are against Unions. I am proudly so. they are terrible. The enemy of american values and success - to put it in language you might understand

of course we are against the government providing health insurance. there is no right to insurance.

what it boils down to is republicans are opposed to collectivism. We embrace individualism, which is the foundation of this country's success. collectivism is the refuge of the weak, fearful and lazy

 

5 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

of course we are against Unions. I am proudly so. they are terrible. The enemy of american values and success - to put it in language you might understand

of course we are against the government providing health insurance. there is no right to insurance.

what it boils down to is republicans are opposed to collectivism. We embrace individualism, which is the foundation of this country's success. collectivism is the refuge of the weak, fearful and lazy

 

This is a hilariously romanticized/outdated view of Republican beliefs.  Trump just got more Republican votes than anyone in history after passing out federal checks to every American, boosting farm subsidy socialism and promising universal healthcare.

11 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

of course we are against Unions. I am proudly so. they are terrible. The enemy of american values and success - to put it in language you might understand

of course we are against the government providing health insurance. there is no right to insurance.

what it boils down to is republicans are opposed to collectivism. We embrace individualism, which is the foundation of this country's success. collectivism is the refuge of the weak, fearful and lazy

 

Replace Republicans with Libertarians. Or traditional Republicans. 

The current Trump GOP abandoned all principles.

Trump’s bailout to farmers was reminiscent of FDR’s AAA agency.

15 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

of course we are against Unions. I am proudly so. they are terrible. The enemy of american values and success - to put it in language you might understand

of course we are against the government providing health insurance. there is no right to insurance.

what it boils down to is republicans are opposed to collectivism. We embrace individualism, which is the foundation of this country's success. collectivism is the refuge of the weak, fearful and lazy

 

its already been said, but worth repeating, this is not how the trump GOP goes about things. 

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Replace Republicans with Libertarians. Or traditional Republicans. 

The current Trump GOP abandoned all principles.

a fair comment

historically that is what they were about. they need to get back to it. but sadly as the saying goes, the Americans will do the right thing ...after they have tried everything else

10 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

This is a hilariously romanticized/outdated view of Republican beliefs.  Trump just got more Republican votes than anyone in history after passing out federal checks to every American, boosting farm subsidy socialism and promising universal healthcare.

what's hilarious is pretending the last four outlier years erase everything that came before it. immediacy bias much? but it suits your leftist agenda, so that's all that matters...

if now is all that matters, do you concede the Dems are the party of Socialism? bc that's their solution to everything right now...

 

20 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

what it boils down to is republicans are opposed to collectivism. We embrace individualism, which is the foundation of this country's success. collectivism is the refuge of the weak, fearful and lazy

If you actually read the Founders, they often spoke in collectivist terms. The birth of the nation was a massive exercise in collectivism.

4 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

its already been said, but worth repeating, this is not how the trump GOP goes about things. 

fair enough but i dont see the Trump years as transforming the party as the left does. they gave in and ate the marshmallow. lost their way, they can get back to it. it will take some time. no doubt.

sadly, as we have seen from other nations/cultures that are older than us, its very difficult to fight against the decay that is collectivism....

9 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

If you actually read the Founders, they often spoke in collectivist terms. The birth of the nation was a massive exercise in collectivism.

this is so incorrect it makes my brain hurt....where do you kids learn this garbage?

5 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

this is so incorrect it makes my brain hurt....where do you kids learn this garbage?

It's called using my own brain to read primary source texts. It's how I got a Master's degree. You could start with the Federalist Papers.

These guys loved Rousseau and spoke at length about the social contract. If you don't see the underlying collectivism of their writings, you are being willfully blind.

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

what's hilarious is pretending the last four outlier years erase everything that came before it. immediacy bias much? but it suits your leftist agenda, so that's all that matters...

if now is all that matters, do you concede the Dems are the party of Socialism? bc that's their solution to everything right now...

 

If you think the last 4 years are an outlier, you're living in a fantasy world.  That's the party now.  I wish it weren't because I would prefer one party to be big government and one party to be small government, so that they can both work as a check on the worst instincts of the other, but that's not the way it's going to work anymore.

We have plenty of evidence of the way modern Republicans work.  They're fierce proponents of individualism/budget hawks when they're the opposition, but they're big government collectivists when they're in power.  They only use the former as a weapon to bludgeon the Dems and stop their agenda.  And it has nothing to do with ideology, it's all about a means to regain power (which of course, just means more Republican-style big government once they're in power).

One party (the Dems) are for expanding the social safety net and increasing domestic spending.  You may disagree with their ideology and I do too at times, but they're doing it because they believe that their ideology is the best way forward for the American people.  And the other party (Reps) operates strictly as a vehicle to gain and remain in power, with absolutely no ideological core or guiding principals.

Moving away from the ideological circle jerk of collectivism versus individualism - a $15 an hour minimum wage is a bad idea. I agree with the thought of allowing the states to dictate the minimum wage for themselves in that $15 on the east coast hold different values then the south or midland America. Forcing a $15 minimum wage will either create more unemployment as technology will take over those menial jobs or it will expand on the gig economy and more people will end up as self employed contractors versus being a full/part time employee for a company.

2 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

It's called using my own brain to read primary source texts. It's how I got a Master's degree. You could start with the Federalist Papers.

These guys loved Rousseau and spoke at length about the social contract. If you don't see the underlying collectivism of their writings, you are being willfully blind.

i've read them plenty

what your argument amounts to is taking things out of context, or things that were part of a debate to arrive at: four legs good, two legs better. 

15 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

fair enough but i dont see the Trump years as transforming the party as the left does. they gave in and ate the marshmallow. lost their way, they can get back to it. it will take some time. no doubt.

sadly, as we have seen from other nations/cultures that are older than us, its very difficult to fight against the decay that is collectivism....

If by "take some time" you mean about 20 years or so, then sure.

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

i've read them plenty

what your argument amounts to is taking things out of context, or things that were part of a debate to arrive at: four legs good, two legs better. 

Philosophies evolve with history. While they might not be considered collectivist by today's standards, they were certainly collectivists in their time. Everything since then began along the track that they set.

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

If by "take some time" you mean about 20 years or so, then sure.

not an unrealistic time frame sadly...

what will likely speed that up is the incompetence of the left

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

not an unrealistic time frame sadly...

what will likely speed that up is the incompetence of the left

Oddly enough, it was the left that shifted towards competence when they nominated Biden over Sanders and Warren. Who knows how long they'll stay lucid for though.

4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

not an unrealistic time frame sadly...

what will likely speed that up is the incompetence of the left

The competence or incompetence of the left will have little effect on the right's ability to reform itself and return to normalcy.  They're on their own on that one.  And it's off to a bad start post-Trump.

3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

The competence or incompetence of the left will have little effect on the right's ability to reform itself and return to normalcy.  They're on their own on that one.  And it's off to a bad start post-Trump.

This, they care more about stopping the cabal of baby blood drinkers starting wild fires from space in conjunction with the jews than they care about balanced budgets and fiscal responsibility. They are a lunatic fringe party and they aren't coming back. 

Hey! Check this out!  Employer provides a competitive wage, all of a sudden there is an abundance of workers competing for the job:

Anecdotal, yes. Not every employer is going to be able to provide higher wages and stay profitable. But if your business model relies on exploiting workers at low wages, it's not the lack of workers that's the problem.

12 minutes ago, toolg said:

Hey! Check this out!  Employer provides a competitive wage, all of a sudden there is an abundance of workers competing for the job:

Anecdotal, yes. Not every employer is going to be able to provide higher wages and stay profitable. But if your business model relies on exploiting workers at low wages, it's not the lack of workers that's the problem.

A few things:

1) thanks for showing an example of why we don’t need government to force a national mandate of $15/hr.  Let employers adjust to the conditions on their own.

2) One of the reasons why employers are having trouble finding workers is because of the extended unemployment payments.  If people are paid X to stay home and do nothing, a significant portion of those people would rather do nothing and get paid X instead of going to work to earn X+X/Y.  Especially when those people can do little part time side jobs making cash under the table to combine with their unemployment payments.  
3) Thanks to crazy high inflation thanks to government policy of printing insane amounts of money, the people now making the "increased” rate of $15/hr aren’t really making more money (if any) than they were before.