1 minute ago, Infam said:

Hurts is the future.

I hope so 

5 hours ago, Infam said:

Outside sources, hm? You mean BLG and idiots like him?

Can't be the other GMs, because they all say he is doing a good job. But hey, why bother with the facts when you have feelings.

BLG is responsible for a lot of the hate on this board.

I am not a Howie fan, he has made mistakes and his drafting has not been good (although it’s not as awful as people on this board make out)

But the hatred for him goes too far. He was integral in the Super Bowl run. Injuries on this team have been ludicrous. Let’s see how Hurts develops. Let’s see how the other draft picks from last year develop. Can Mailata and Goedert step up to pro bowl level? Can Barnett have a break through? Let’s see how Dillard plays now he’s healthy.

3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

BLG is responsible for a lot of the hate on this board.

I am not a Howie fan, he has made mistakes and his drafting has not been good (although it’s not as awful as people on this board make out)

But the hatred for him goes too far. He was integral in the Super Bowl run. Injuries on this team have been ludicrous. Let’s see how Hurts develops. Let’s see how the other draft picks from last year develop. Can Mailata and Goedert step up to pro bowl level? Can Barnett have a break through? Let’s see how Dillard plays now he’s healthy.

Don't forget Sanders. He needs to step up, I think he's a little overrated on this board. Injury prone and indecisive, relying on big plays. I'd like to see him stay healthy and develop into a consistent every down RB.

12 hours ago, Infam said:

Outside sources, hm? You mean BLG and idiots like him?

Can't be the other GMs, because they all say he is doing a good job. But hey, why bother with the facts when you have feelings.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/nfl-drafting-efficiency-2010-2019

I wrote a piece on it before this article came out on the other board showing that we hadn't hit on a draft pick except for Wentz since 2012 but then again I guess Wentz was a bust too.

7 hours ago, Infam said:

Hurts is the future.

Because he makes lots of quick reads and accurate throws?

My fear is that he'll be just good enough to get us to a mid-round draft position.  Hot would be good.  Cold would at least set us up with the draft position to maybe be hot in the future.  Lukewarm gets us nowhere good.

Hurts has Lukewarm written all over him.

10 hours ago, Infam said:

Dallas sucks, I don't see them do anything ever with Dak. Everyone acts like he is an elite QB.. where were they with Dak? Nowhere.

The Giants threw around a lot of money, but I wouldn't bet on them to win anything either.

The division is between us and the Redskins. And I see us win that duel.

Dallas sucks because we dislike / hate Dallas. The reality is last year if Dak stays healthy they win the division. That doesn't make them a contender, it doesn't even make them a good team but they are good enough to win our pathetic division. I expect they will address some defensive issues in the draft and with Dak back their offense will be good enough to win enough games this year.

I don't see that the division is between us and Washington. We just are not a good team end of. We are in a rebuild because our roster is pretty bad.

10 hours ago, kentwo said:

And they’re going to stay better for a couple more years. D has their main offensive core signed for a while as long as Dak is okay. Their defense is a few pieces from being decent if their LBs can stay healthy. Was just needs a QB. NY needs a QB and some defensive help but they have a lot of young talent as well. 

That's what I think about Dallas too. I mean look we've said for years now that on paper they are actually a good team but the reality is they don't put it together on the field. They have a hell of an offense potentially if they can address their OL. I mean Lamb, Cooper and Gallup? That's a really good set of weapons. Add in Zeke (who isn't the same player he was but they now can manage his load more) and they have a good offense. They showed that last year when Dak was healthy they scored a lot of points. Their defense needs addressing but I think they do that in the draft.

9 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

The way I see it, if the Eagles are going to get to a mediocre or better record, then Hurts has to be good, which means we don’t have to take a QB in the first next year and can hopefully make use of 3 first rounders.

If Hurts sucks we probably get a top 5 pick. 

I'd agree with that! I think the Eagles are going to finish with a losing record... My way too early prediction would be 5-12. This is a pretty bad roster that will have some talent added during the off season but ultimately needs a rebuild. Hopefully Hurts can show that he can be a good NFL QB and then we can use those 3 first round picks next year to add even more talent to the roster. If we have to use some of those picks to trade up for a QB next year then to me that's a waste in some ways.

3 hours ago, Vileborg said:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/nfl-drafting-efficiency-2010-2019

I wrote a piece on it before this article came out on the other board showing that we hadn't hit on a draft pick except for Wentz since 2012 but then again I guess Wentz was a bust too.

Doesn’t this article just show that we are a bit below average at drafting rather than terrible?

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'd agree with that! I think the Eagles are going to finish with a losing record... My way too early prediction would be 5-12. This is a pretty bad roster that will have some talent added during the off season but ultimately needs a rebuild. Hopefully Hurts can show that he can be a good NFL QB and then we can use those 3 first round picks next year to add even more talent to the roster. If we have to use some of those picks to trade up for a QB next year then to me that's a waste in some ways.

I think you may be right, but I do think there is a possibility that we could be good and make the playoffs this year.

But it would depend on:

1) Hurts turning into a top 10 QB in year 2.

2) The Eagles finding a legitimate outsider corner to play outside with Hurts.

3) The team staying relatively healthy.

4) Our ageing good players (Cox, Graham, Kelce etc) don’t fall off a cliff.

These are all big ifs of course 

5 hours ago, Vileborg said:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/nfl-drafting-efficiency-2010-2019

I wrote a piece on it before this article came out on the other board showing that we hadn't hit on a draft pick except for Wentz since 2012 but then again I guess Wentz was a bust too.

Well I have written a piece on empirical data this year, and there are some flaws to this approach, one of the biggest is how unlucky we were with injuries.

For arguments sake I will just accept everything there as the truth. So what does this actually say? That we are bad drafting, like you propose?

Not at all. It does point out that the Eagles were bottom two in number of picks made recently, and the one really bad draft in efficiency was 2018.

Matter of fact the Eagles are listed absolutely average in all categories over a long time span, with one really good draft (2012) and one really bad (2018).

A ten year draft efficiency has them at 98%. Is that a great outcome? Probably not. Does it prove your point "that we hadn't hit on a draft pick" ?

Not even close!! If anything these numbers show that you are completely wrong and it is like I said it was: That we are neither great nor bad drafting. All things considered, namely the low amount of picks we actually made, that is a decent result after all. If you like we can dive deeper into the numbers, but this doesn't prove your point at all.

 

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Dallas sucks because we dislike / hate Dallas. The reality is last year if Dak stays healthy they win the division. That doesn't make them a contender, it doesn't even make them a good team but they are good enough to win our pathetic division. I expect they will address some defensive issues in the draft and with Dak back their offense will be good enough to win enough games this year.

I don't see that the division is between us and Washington. We just are not a good team end of. We are in a rebuild because our roster is pretty bad.

With Dak on the field Dallas was losing. Now that he got payed you think he will carry them? I don't think so. Dallas does still suck, no matter how often they win the offseason.

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

That's what I think about Dallas too. I mean look we've said for years now that on paper they are actually a good team but the reality is they don't put it together on the field. They have a hell of an offense potentially if they can address their OL. I mean Lamb, Cooper and Gallup? That's a really good set of weapons. Add in Zeke (who isn't the same player he was but they now can manage his load more) and they have a good offense. They showed that last year when Dak was healthy they scored a lot of points. Their defense needs addressing but I think they do that in the draft.

Yeah sure. They win the superbowl every year. Until the season starts.

I will cheer them on in hopes of winning every game, on their way to a 3-13 record. 

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'd agree with that! I think the Eagles are going to finish with a losing record... My way too early prediction would be 5-12. This is a pretty bad roster that will have some talent added during the off season but ultimately needs a rebuild. Hopefully Hurts can show that he can be a good NFL QB and then we can use those 3 first round picks next year to add even more talent to the roster. If we have to use some of those picks to trade up for a QB next year then to me that's a waste in some ways.

Nothing is a waste if you land a franchise QB. They can play for 20 seasons now with the rules protecting them. Finding one that can play 20 seasons and remain productive is the really difficult part. There aren’t many. Which is why it makes more sense to draft one if they are available rather than wait and see if your current QB will continue to develop. We saw what happened between Rosen and Murray. Murray may not be a long term franchise QB, but he is a hell of a lot better than Rosen could ever hope to be.

I haven’t been paying attention to college football, so I have no idea what the QB prospect landscape is like.

6 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I think you may be right, but I do think there is a possibility that we could be good and make the playoffs this year.

But it would depend on:

1) Hurts turning into a top 10 QB in year 2.

2) The Eagles finding a legitimate outsider corner to play outside with Hurts.

3) The team staying relatively healthy.

4) Our ageing good players (Cox, Graham, Kelce etc) don’t fall off a cliff.

These are all big ifs of course 

5) ANY receiver needs to step up and not suck. Preferably Reagor. 

7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Doesn’t this article just show that we are a bit below average at drafting rather than terrible?

Actually it shows that trying to analyse something like draft efficiency mathematically is a fools errand and you might as well lick a psychoactive toad and write down the numbers that come to you in visions as a way of calculating it.

Even if you're right, being average is no sort of aim and Howie's drafting is awful compared to the best, his cap management is negligent and he's a terrible GM, who's dining out on 5 decent free agent signings in 2016.

21 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Actually it shows that trying to analyse something like draft efficiency mathematically is a fools errand and you might as well lick a psychoactive toad and write down the numbers that come to you in visions as a way of calculating it.

Even if you're right, being average is no sort of aim and Howie's drafting is awful compared to the best, his cap management is negligent and he's a terrible GM, who's dining out on 5 decent free agent signings in 2016.

Yeah fair enough - we should aim for better than average.

I don’t agree his cap management is negligent. He’s made mistakes sure, but has also been hurt by bad luck (Covid, Jeffery injuries, Wentz decline)

I’ve said all along I’m no Howie fan and wouldn’t be sorry to see him go and get a fresh face. For me he deserved to go more than Doug or Schwartz, who did okay with what they had.

But he just isn’t a terrible GM. He’s a flawed one who is capable of good and bad moves.

He was a key part of our Super Bowl win and he has been a key part of our decline. He will get another year or two to right it, so we may as well live with it.

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Actually it shows that trying to analyse something like draft efficiency mathematically is a fools errand and you might as well lick a psychoactive toad and write down the numbers that come to you in visions as a way of calculating it.

100% agreed.

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Even if you're right, being average is no sort of aim and Howie's drafting is awful compared to the best, his cap management is negligent and he's a terrible GM, who's dining out on 5 decent free agent signings in 2016.

Nah, that's bull. 😄

11 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

But it would depend on:

1) Hurts turning into a top 10 QB in year 2.

2) The Eagles finding a legitimate outsider corner to play outside with Hurts.

3) The team staying relatively healthy.

4) Our ageing good players (Cox, Graham, Kelce etc) don’t fall off a cliff.

These are all big ifs of course 

I mean I know you recognise it yourself bud but those are huge ifs. I mean Hurts a top 10 QB? I liked what I saw from him but he didn't even flash top 10. A legit outside corner to play opposite Slay? That's a stretch, a real stretch. 

21 hours ago, Infam said:

Well I have written a piece on empirical data this year, and there are some flaws to this approach, one of the biggest is how unlucky we were with injuries.

For arguments sake I will just accept everything there as the truth. So what does this actually say? That we are bad drafting, like you propose?

Not at all. It does point out that the Eagles were bottom two in number of picks made recently, and the one really bad draft in efficiency was 2018.

Matter of fact the Eagles are listed absolutely average in all categories over a long time span, with one really good draft (2012) and one really bad (2018).

A ten year draft efficiency has them at 98%. Is that a great outcome? Probably not. Does it prove your point "that we hadn't hit on a draft pick" ?

Not even close!! If anything these numbers show that you are completely wrong and it is like I said it was: That we are neither great nor bad drafting. All things considered, namely the low amount of picks we actually made, that is a decent result after all. If you like we can dive deeper into the numbers, but this doesn't prove your point at all.

 

Let's change this up. Give me the long list of break out stars we've drafted since 2015 and how they are going to carry this team going into this year.

1 hour ago, Vileborg said:

Let's change this up. Give me the long list of break out stars we've drafted since 2015 and how they are going to carry this team going into this year.

I just can't see an argument for how this team is well set up right now to rebuild and be competitive within a year or two. Right now there are hardly any foundational pieces from which we can build from. This team lacks talent at the skills positions and it lacks blue chip talent. Where are the building blocks? We don't even have a QB we can be truly confident in right now. And all the while the man who's put us in this position continues to be the GM and in charge of rebuilding.

18 hours ago, nipples said:

5) ANY receiver needs to step up and not suck. Preferably Reagor. 

 

13 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean I know you recognise it yourself bud but those are huge ifs. I mean Hurts a top 10 QB? I liked what I saw from him but he didn't even flash top 10. A legit outside corner to play opposite Slay? That's a stretch, a real stretch. 

A lot comes down to Hurts, but I agree there is a lot of projection.

Yes - we do need another skill weapon to step up. We do have Goedert and at the moment Ertz. It’s not too big a leap for Reagor to jump to say 700 yards and 6 TDs. Watkins/Fulgham/draft pick are other possibilities. 
 

CB 2 is an issue. Can a first or second round rookie come in and do an adequate job? We can give them help with Slay on the other side.

24 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

A lot comes down to Hurts, but I agree there is a lot of projection.

Yes - we do need another skill weapon to step up. We do have Goedert and at the moment Ertz. It’s not too big a leap for Reagor to jump to say 700 yards and 6 TDs. Watkins/Fulgham/draft pick are other possibilities. 
 

CB 2 is an issue. Can a first or second round rookie come in and do an adequate job? We can give them help with Slay on the other side.

I think they use a first rounder on a CB to be honest bud. Whether or not that CB can develop in to a long term #1 CB I have my doubts but for the next year or two they would be CB #2 with Slay as the CB #1.

16 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Yeah fair enough - we should aim for better than average.

I don’t agree his cap management is negligent. He’s made mistakes sure, but has also been hurt by bad luck (Covid, Jeffery injuries, Wentz decline)

I’ve said all along I’m no Howie fan and wouldn’t be sorry to see him go and get a fresh face. For me he deserved to go more than Doug or Schwartz, who did okay with what they had.

But he just isn’t a terrible GM. He’s a flawed one who is capable of good and bad moves.

He was a key part of our Super Bowl win and he has been a key part of our decline. He will get another year or two to right it, so we may as well live with it.

COVID only exposed the issue it didn't cause it, Howie is a serial restructurer, extending contracts with dummy years and proration rather than actually managing the cap by making tough decisions about trading or cutting players.

A prime example of Howie's cap nonsense is Fletcher Cox's contract, he's a great player, but he signed a six year $102.6million extension in 2016 and going into his sixth year of that contract he's still got cap hits of ~$24Mill, ~$24Mill, $5Mill and $1mill for the next 4 years, because of restructures in 2018, how does a cap guru end up restructuring a contract in this way n 2018, when we've got QB's on a rookie and journeyman contracts and our big contract expense was (in another signature Howie contract triumph)  signing Bradham to a 5 year extension?

There's no sign of any planning or real performance evaluation, it's just constantly fire fighting to get under the cap and handing out dummy years like they're free or something rather than accelerating dead cap into players last year.

Another little contract wrinkle to look out for is that apparently unless we paid Lane an extra 4mill about a fortnight ago his contract years from 2026-28 aren't void and they're hugely expensive, especially for a 38 year old Tackle.

On 3/30/2021 at 1:30 AM, ilikepargo said:

Because he makes lots of quick reads and accurate throws?

My fear is that he'll be just good enough to get us to a mid-round draft position.  Hot would be good.  Cold would at least set us up with the draft position to maybe be hot in the future.  Lukewarm gets us nowhere good.

Hurts has Lukewarm written all over him.

I think the cold potential is there.  Worry not.

14 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I just can't see an argument for how this team is well set up right now to rebuild and be competitive within a year or two. Right now there are hardly any foundational pieces from which we can build from. This team lacks talent at the skills positions and it lacks blue chip talent. Where are the building blocks? We don't even have a QB we can be truly confident in right now. And all the while the man who's put us in this position continues to be the GM and in charge of rebuilding.

Look, I am too lazy to repeat that argument for him, but you read it and even you agreed that we are not that badly set up...