Seems like some in the Republican universe are starting to question - after only six years of mounting evidence - whether Trump is just grifting. 

If they start to turn en masse it could get very ugly.

Excising a cancerous tumor is never comfortable or easy, but it is necessary for the body to regain health. 

I would love to be able to feel good voting for Republicans with some measure of values. I split my ticket again this year, but only for one. Prior to 2016 I voted with a slight republican lean. The only year I went party line was 2018 for Dems.

33 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Seems like some in the Republican universe are starting to question - after only six years of mounting evidence - whether Trump is just grifting. 

If they start to turn en masse it could get very ugly.

Excising a cancerous tumor is never comfortable or easy, but it is necessary for the body to regain health. 

I would love to be able to feel good voting for Republicans with some measure of values. I split my ticket again this year, but only for one. Prior to 2016 I voted with a slight republican lean. The only year I went party line was 2018 for Dems.

Certainly some encouraging signs that it’s headed that way. I’ll believe it when I see it. But my friends and family who are more in the moderate conservative bucket like myself, all want Trump to step aside and fade away. Don’t run in 24, don’t try and play kingmaker, just go away. We’ve had enough. I’d like to see DeSantis/Scott personally. A Trump indictment and conviction would be best case scenario. 

52 minutes ago, sameaglesfan said:

LOL, the guy who had a stroke is a vegetabke....hahahahahaha. We are all laughing guys. This type of outright disrespectful bullsh** just cost you morons the Senate.

11 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Certainly some encouraging signs that it’s headed that way. I’ll believe it when I see it. But my friends and family who are more in the moderate conservative bucket like myself, all want Trump to step aside and fade away. Don’t run in 24, don’t try and play kingmaker, just go away. We’ve had enough. I’d like to see DeSantis/Scott personally. A Trump indictment and conviction would be best case scenario. 

I'm waiting for the real crazies to start peddling the theory that Trump was really a long-con plant from the Democrats to destroy the Republican party from the inside. These guys need conspiracy theories that transfer blame to Democrats like most people need water and air.

To be sure, he certain was a conman. 

12 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

LOL, the guy who had a stroke is a vegetabke....hahahahahaha. We are all laughing guys. This type of outright disrespectful bullsh** just cost you morons the Senate.

Frankly, I think it was far more the fact that PA rejected a NJ Snake Oil Salesman than it was endorsing Fetterman. 

3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I'm waiting for the real crazies to start peddling the theory that Trump was really a long-con plant from the Democrats to destroy the Republican party from the inside. These guys need conspiracy theories that transfer blame to Democrats like most people need water and air.

To be sure, he certain was a conman. 

Just wait for the Ron DeSantis is a RINO nonsense.

1 minute ago, Outlaw said:

Frankly, I think it was far more the fact that PA rejected a NJ Snake Oil Salesman than it was endorsing Fetterman. 

 

And you know, women's rights and all.

Just now, Outlaw said:

Frankly, I think it was far more the fact that PA rejected a NJ Snake Oil Salesman than it was endorsing Fetterman. 

For sure that had a lot to do with it. McCormick probably would have won.

But Fetterman did make legit strong gains in rural areas relative to Biden, and McCormick would have been seen by those areas as not too much better than Oz frankly. I do think McCormick would have done a bit better in the suburbs than Oz though. 

1 minute ago, Outlaw said:

Just wait for the Ron DeSantis is a RINO nonsense.

Wait? ... I mean, the guy's already going after him.

Just now, Outlaw said:

Frankly, I think it was far more the fact that PA rejected a NJ Snake Oil Salesman than it was endorsing Fetterman.

I disagree.  Before the stroke's effects were seen, Fetterman was poised to absolutely route Oz.  And there was a good reason for that.  He was a great candidate.  Obviously, after people started to realize that the stroke had taken a toll the equation changed and it was just about holding on and defeating the snake oil salesman, but the base of support was there because he resonated with a lot of people.  It's a shame too because Fetterman was one of the only viable rising stars in the Democratic Party.

3 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

And you know, women's rights and all.

Agreed. Mastriano and Oz were just two AWFUL candidates. 

2 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

For sure that had a lot to do with it. McCormick probably would have won.

But Fetterman did make legit strong gains in rural areas relative to Biden, and McCormick would have been seen by those areas as not too much better than Oz frankly. I do think McCormick would have done a bit better in the suburbs than Oz though. 

Wait? ... I mean, the guy's already going after him.

I agree that McCormick would have done much better in Bucks/Montco/Chester/Del than Oz and would have most likely won. And yeah, he's going after him, but I haven't seen him call him a RINO yet...that's when you truly know Trump is scared.

4 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

I disagree.  Before the stroke's effects were seen, Fetterman was poised to absolutely route Oz.  And there was a good reason for that.  He was a great candidate.  Obviously, after people started to realize that the stroke had taken a toll the equation changed and it was just about holding on and defeating the snake oil salesman, but the base of support was there because he resonated with a lot of people.  It's a shame too because Fetterman was one of the only viable rising stars in the Democratic Party.

50 days of early voting helped too, as a lot of people voted before the "debate." I think if everything stayed the same, except replace Oz with McCormick, Fetterman would not have won. I voted McCormick in the primary, but had to vote Fetterman in the general, along with Shapiro. Mastriano and Oz were god-awful candidates, and some of the most glaring pieces of proof that Trump needs to go away. Fetterman still has some way too progressive positions for me, but I just could not fill in that black dot for a NJ animal abuser.

10 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

I disagree.  Before the stroke's effects were seen, Fetterman was poised to absolutely route Oz.  And there was a good reason for that.  He was a great candidate.  Obviously, after people started to realize that the stroke had taken a toll the equation changed and it was just about holding on and defeating the snake oil salesman, but the base of support was there because he resonated with a lot of people.  It's a shame too because Fetterman was one of the only viable rising stars in the Democratic Party.

I liked Fetterman for PA, but I would pump the brakes on building a national movement around him.

Even before the stroke the guy had some flaws that would hurt him nationally. 

He was almost purpose-built to beat a MAGA type candidate in PA, because a lot of MAGA voters are going for style not substance. Not to mention his Bernie-adjacent economic populism also resonates with a lot of the same voters for the same reasons. (recall that in 2016 there what a Trump-Bernie voter phenomenon .. it was at the margins, but that's where races in states like PA are won)

Fetterman's vulnerability, in my estimation anyway FWIW, was going to be in the suburbs .. and Oz was NOT much cared for by suburban women based on what we've seen so far. Edit: I also think the biggest 'burbs in the state being proximal to New Jersey helped a lot, the "Oz is from New Jersey and a Cowboys fan to boot" carried outsized weight with voters here I believe.

If Fetterman doesn't have a stroke, but Roe also doesn't happen, I think it's a closer election. Still think Fetterman wins, but I don't think it's at the margins we saw. I don't think the stroke hurt him nearly as much as pundits thought it would, but Roe absolutely helped him.

Fair to take my guesses here with a grain of salt, I initially thought perhaps Shapiro would need to ride Fetterman's coattails a bit to ensure the governor's mansion and it ended up the other way around. In my defense I had no idea Mastriano would run such a terrible campaign and end up just praying for victory rather than actually, you know, campaigning.

32 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

LOL, the guy who had a stroke is a vegetabke....hahahahahaha. We are all laughing guys. This type of outright disrespectful bullsh** just cost you morons the Senate.

 

Children. These people are children, intellectually and psychologically. Luckily, the adults have been showing up to the polls recently.

5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I liked Fetterman for PA, but I would pump the brakes on building a national movement around him.

Even before the stroke the guy had some flaws that would hurt him nationally. 

He was almost purpose-built to beat a MAGA type candidate in PA, because a lot of MAGA voters are going for style not substance. Not to mention his Bernie-adjacent economic populism also resonates with a lot of the same voters for the same reasons. (recall that in 2016 there what a Trump-Bernie voter phenomenon .. it was at the margins, but that's where races in states like PA are won)

Fetterman's vulnerability, in my estimation anyway FWIW, was going to be in the suburbs .. and Oz was NOT much cared for by suburban women based on what we've seen so far. Edit: I also think the biggest 'burbs in the state being proximal to New Jersey helped a lot, the "Oz is from New Jersey and a Cowboys fan to boot" carried outsized weight with voters here I believe.

If Fetterman doesn't have a stroke, but Roe also doesn't happen, I think it's a closer election. Still think Fetterman wins, but I don't think it's at the margins we saw. I don't think the stroke hurt him nearly as much as pundits thought it would, but Roe absolutely helped him.

Fair to take my guesses here with a grain of salt, I initially thought perhaps Shapiro would need to ride Fetterman's coattails a bit to ensure the governor's mansion and it ended up the other way around. In my defense I had no idea Mastriano would run such a terrible campaign and end up just praying for victory rather than actually, you know, campaigning.

Mastriano was just so ironic for me. Because he as a candidate, and his campaign...were abortions.

On 11/10/2022 at 7:49 AM, we_gotta_believe said:

"These young dumb women need a husband around to tell them what to think."

That's a winning strategy if I've ever heard one.

I find it odd married people skew conservative post nuptials. I got way more liberal once I had two little girls. Trump helped a lot in that decision making though. 

 

7 minutes ago, homerpat said:

I find it odd married people skew conservative post nuptials. I got way more liberal once I had two little girls. Trump helped a lot in that decision making though. 

Yep. I always found it odd how men with daughters remain misogynistic.

29 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

 

I'm expecting him to get worse as DeSantis' star rises. If Ron starts to chip away at all the normies, then Trump is gonna have to turn the racists and Q-freaks into even more of a coalition. Not to mention, it keeps him in the news cycle.

The freakin joke doesn't even have a punchline. You could almost tolerate the racism if there were rumors of Youngkin having secret Chinese donors or whatever, so it's at least grounded in something topical. But the whole joke is just "Youngkin....sounds Chinese".  Pretty desperate, bro. 

One thing that stands out about the midterms is that that onslaught of Republican polling that started coming in a few weeks before the election did the right no favors.  It was just God-awful polling, showing Republican after Republican with ridiculous leads, pretending like NH was a true toss-up, etc.  First of all, it may have created a false sense of security for the party that could have suppressed turn out (although that was probably minimal) and more importantly, it set expectations for a route that never came close to materializing.  That specific batch of polls has played a big part in the post-election reaction.

Just now, Lloyd said:

I'm expecting him to get worse as DeSantis' star rises. If Ron starts to chip away at all the normies, then Trump is gonna have to turn the racists and Q-freaks into even more of a coalition. Not to mention, it keeps him in the news cycle.

The freakin joke doesn't even have a punchline. You could tolerate the racism if there were rumors of Youngkin having secret Chinese donors or whatever, so it's at least grounded in something topical. But the whole joke is just "Youngkin....sounds Chinese".  Pretty desperate, bro. 

So half the party?

Just now, VanHammersly said:

One thing that stands out about the midterms is that that onslaught of Republican polling that started coming in a few weeks before the election did the right no favors.  It was just God-awful polling, showing Republican after Republican with ridiculous leads, pretending like NH was a true toss-up, etc.  First of all, it may have created a false sense of security for the party that could have suppressed turn out (although that was probably minimal) and more importantly, it set expectations for a route that never came close to materializing.  That specific batch of polls has played a big part in the post-election reaction.

Yep, after the Fetterman-Oz debate many polls had Oz catapulted to a 2-3 point lead. Who the hell were they polling?

Just now, Paul852 said:

Yep, after the Fetterman-Oz debate many polls had Oz catapulted to a 2-3 point lead. Who the hell were they polling?

They were partisan polls, which obviously are out there, but it was strategic.  The party decided to flood the zone with them.  I just don't understand why.  It was a huge misstep.

1 minute ago, Paul852 said:

Yep, after the Fetterman-Oz debate many polls had Oz catapulted to a 2-3 point lead. Who the hell were they polling?

That's the thing about all that whining about the "Mainstream media has a liberal bias."

If anything, I find that some MSM sources bend over backwards to appeal to "both sides" to the point where they overhype right wing talking points because it makes them seem "fair." 

3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

They were partisan polls, which obviously are out there, but it was strategic.  The party decided to flood the zone with them.  I just don't understand why.  It was a huge misstep.

Certainly had me questioning things. I didn't know a single person changing their Fetterman vote but they were really pushing that narrative.

2 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

Certainly had me questioning things. I didn't know a single person changing their Fetterman vote but they were really pushing that narrative.

Republicans know that broad elections are decided by Democratic turnout, so I guess the idea was the discourage the left (which isn't hard to do, honestly) and make them give up (which is obviously harder to do).  It didn't work and it was risky because it set their expectations too high, but that was probably what they were aiming for.

10 minutes ago, homerpat said:

I find it odd married people skew conservative post nuptials. I got way more liberal once I had two little girls. Trump helped a lot in that decision making though. 

Yep, pretty much the exact same case with my kids.