Back-up OL is a liability/Limits to what Stoutland can do

[eggs]

The biggest thing we learned from the Patriots game is that our back-up Olinemen aren’t good enough to play in the NFL, despite all the game experience they got last year with the injuries and despite Stoutland’s coaching. We’d better hope that the starters stay healthy for most of a 17 game season or we will have whoever our QB is running for his life and at risk of injury instead of staying healthy and improving. 

Stoutland did wonders with an amazing athlete like Mailata, but what we’ve learned is that he can’t make less athletic low picks like Herbig, Pryor and Toth good enough to be solid NFL players who can start when someone is injured. There are just physical limits to their upside. Prior to this year’s Dickerson pick, the Eagles only drafted one OLineman in the first three rounds of the draft in the previous seven years (Dillard) which was a substantial underinvestment in talent.  
 

With the 17 game season, Dillard’s regression, this year’s pick of Dickerson and his injury history, and three starters over the age of 30, the Eagles need to reinvest in top rated, talented young lineman ASAP.

[Guest]

We learned out back ups are not good enough to play in the NFL across the board.

[eagle45]

Correct.  Their backup OL is very bad and also figures to be often-used.

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, eggs said:

The biggest thing we learned from the Patriots game is that our back-up Olinemen aren’t good enough to play in the NFL, despite all the game experience they got last year with the injuries and despite Stoutland’s coaching. We’d better hope that the starters stay healthy for most of a 17 game season or we will have whoever our QB is running for his life and at risk of injury instead of staying healthy and improving. 

Stoutland did wonders with an amazing athlete like Mailata, but what we’ve learned is that he can’t make less athletic low picks like Herbig, Pryor and Toth good enough to be solid NFL players who can start when someone is injured. There are just physical limits to their upside. Prior to this year’s Dickerson pick, the Eagles only drafted one OLineman in the first three rounds of the draft in the previous seven years (Dillard) which was a substantial underinvestment in talent.  
 

With the 17 game season, Dillard’s regression, this year’s pick of Dickerson and his injury history, and three starters over the age of 30, the Eagles need to reinvest in top rated, talented young lineman ASAP.

lol

One of our backups last year is already a starter this year (Mailata). If we get to the point where we have lost all 5 starters on the O-line, then we probably aren't going to be winning games anyway. Even as bad as it got last year, when we started the season  -2 starters for the year, we still had Kelce out there. Herbig played the entire game Thursday and had a couple bad plays, but overall, was able to get a lot of experience at C. He's already one of the best reserve Guards in the NFL, IMO. 

People have to be real careful in what they try to take away from that game. The players out there were not put in a situation to succeed. The coaches seem to be evaluating their effort and fight. It kind of reminded me of Hell's Kitchen where at the end, the losing team needs to vote off their weakest link. 

This thread is overreacting. We have some quality backups and the guys that don't make this team will get claimed by other teams and given a chance there. 

[eggs]

43 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

lol

One of our backups last year is already a starter this year (Mailata). If we get to the point where we have lost all 5 starters on the O-line, then we probably aren't going to be winning games anyway. Even as bad as it got last year, when we started the season  -2 starters for the year, we still had Kelce out there. Herbig played the entire game Thursday and had a couple bad plays, but overall, was able to get a lot of experience at C. He's already one of the best reserve Guards in the NFL, IMO. 

People have to be real careful in what they try to take away from that game. The players out there were not put in a situation to succeed. The coaches seem to be evaluating their effort and fight. It kind of reminded me of Hell's Kitchen where at the end, the losing team needs to vote off their weakest link. 

This thread is overreacting. We have some quality backups and the guys that don't make this team will get claimed by other teams and given a chance there. 

Read my post again about an athletic player who was coached-up by Stoudtland like Mailata then watch the game again - they were lost, immobile and couldn’t sustain blocks.  Start with Herzhog’s snap in the first offensive play. 

[EazyEaglez]

Word on the TATE is many of these guys are hand picked by Stoutland and are his pet projects. 

[brkmsn]

19 minutes ago, eggs said:

Read my post again about an athletic player who was coached-up by Stoudtland like Mailata then watch the game again - they were lost, immobile and couldn’t sustain blocks.  Start with Herzhog’s snap in the first offensive play. 

Oh no --- a bad snap. 

Here, watch some actual game footage of Herbig at Guard:

Here's Driscoll in a real game:

In this preseason, Stoutland has been trying to get these guys work at other positions to increase their versatility. Meanwhile, you're panicking beacause  our entire second string struggled against NE's 1st team and our 3rd team vs their 2nd team. 

[Pliny]

Like the previous post alluded to, Herbig is not trash.   He may not be a center in the future and that snap over Flacco's head was crazy.  But, I think he is going to be a fine guard or backup guard for us at the least.   Center is a really tough position.   We have been really fortunate to have Kelce all these years.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

I do think it's being overlooked that the only started 2/5ths of the OL starters. And so yes it was bad, really bad but for most of the game it was the back ups playing.

And so what did we actually learn? Well we learnt that if all our starters go down we are stuffed. Guess what? That's true of the entire league. 

I think if one or two starters go down for a short period of time we will patch things together and we will be OK. If we lose most the starters for long periods then yeah we are done. But again that's true of every team in the NFL. 

[Penn7980]

We lost several OL last season due to injuries.  Age is probably one of the reasons for the mounting injuries.  Needs to develop younger OL to take over is true and urgent.  The FO has not drafted many OL in recent drafts and Stoutland only got to work with lesser talents.  Nevertheless, Mailata and Herbig are bright spots.  Couple others behind them may also evolve to be quality backup.  Dickerson, a draftee we are yet to see in action, could be another bright spot if his injury does not hold him back. 

[eagle45]

7 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I do think it's being overlooked that they only started 2/5ths of the OL starters. And so yes it was bad, really bad but for most of the game it was the back ups playing.

And so what did we actually learn? Well we learnt that if all our starters go down we are stuffed. Guess what? That's true of the entire league. 

I think if one or two starters go down for a short period of time we will patch things together and we will be OK. If we lose most the starters for long periods then yeah we are done. But again that's true of every team in the NFL. 

Probably midseason form. 

While every OL will struggle with 2/5 starters, what's different for our OL versus every team in the NFL is that we have 2 starters that we already know won't make it through the year, 1 other (Mailata), who has finished every season as a pro on IR, and 1 other (Seumalo) who missed 7 games last year and got hurt in camp this year.

So the issue here is that this OL will actually be playing with 2/5th of their starters...so the backups ideally would be a little better.

 

[brkmsn]

8 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

1 other (Mailata), who has finished every season as a pro on IR,  

You can't be serious. Both times he was placed on IR was because we had so many injuries, we needed his spot on the 53 at the time of the decision to IR him. Last year, he was in concussion protocol during the final week. 

 

[NJWolverEagle11]

Stoutland to DC? 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 hours ago, eagle45 said:

While every OL will struggle with 2/5 starters, what's different for our OL versus every team in the NFL is that we have 2 starters that we already know won't make it through the year, 1 other (Mailata), who has finished every season as a pro on IR, and 1 other (Seumalo) who missed 7 games last year and got hurt in camp this year.

No you assume you don't know. We don't know that Lane is going to miss time, we don't know that Brooks is going to miss time. Yes it's a concern because they have both missed time but injuries are not a guarantee. 

[EazyEaglez]

On 8/22/2021 at 12:20 AM, Pliny said:

Like the previous post alluded to, Herbig is not trash.   He may not be a center in the future and that snap over Flacco's head was crazy.  But, I think he is going to be a fine guard or backup guard for us at the least.   Center is a really tough position.   We have been really fortunate to have Kelce all these years.

Can’t bury a guy for a bad snap anyway. I’ve watched Kelce make several of those in his career too. 

[Bwestbrook36]

Newsflash, back ups are not as good as starters in the 2nd preseason game. 

[wyote]

Are any of our 2nd string units good enough to be starters? I doubt that many of our first-stringers would start on a Super Bowl caliber team. 

[Godfather]

Season is over after that Patriots game

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PoconoDon]

On topic: A man standing on the sideline and wearing a headset cannot stop a player from getting his butt kicked by a better player all day long. No plan or taught technique will overcome that deficit in performance. If there was a way, there would be no superstars, as they'd all be neutralized. The HOF is full of guys who couldn't be stopped by an opponent's coaching.

Off topic: The Preseason usually means little as a predictor of the regular season. Yes, some guys can't play in either environment and have to be cut (JJAW). Mostly though it's about versatility and skills training without showing the playbook to the world. 

[birdman#12]

Offensive linemen take years to develop......technique, attitude, good coaching and most of all, getting experience takes time.  Stoutland has done a remarkable job with young players.  And it's been a hard job when veterans are injured on not on the field giving some instruction also.  Brooks, Johnson, Seumalo and Peters where banged up and missing games.

Any coach will tell you that familiarity and cohesion are vital with offensive line play.  Last year was a recipe for disaster.  But.....the experience the young guys got last year could play dividends this year. 

But I don't give a sh-- how good your offensive line is if they're all on the bench injured.  No team can lose 3-4 starting offensive linemen and not have a drop off.

The O-line needs to stay healthy this year.....

[nipples]

I’m on the complete opposite side of this. I think the depth is solid. Last year’s debacle forced some of these guys to get starts under their belt which will be valuable experience going forward. I thought Herbig and Driscoll in particular showed a little something last year. 

[Bwestbrook36]

3 hours ago, nipples said:

I’m on the complete opposite side of this. I think the depth is solid. Last year’s debacle forced some of these guys to get starts under their belt which will be valuable experience going forward. I thought Herbig and Driscoll in particular showed a little something last year. 

We are already way ahead of last year by this time we had 2 starters out for the season and Lane missed the opener.