45 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Imma tell you right now, I really don't blame Trump hardly at all for the deaths so far.  However the severity of the next wave is going to be almost totally on him.  He refused to do national tracing, he continues to egg on irresponsibility& ignorance, and has tethered defiance of social distancing to his brand.

 

I absolutely believe 200k + will die in the US and Trump will neither get his death targets or his economy.

You should.  The administration dropped the ball in a very real way.  It's not political to point out that inaction and incompetence led to loss of life.  It's just a fact. They were late to the game on testing (really late), they've been abysmal at getting supplies to where they need to be to save lives, they've been awful at sending the right message that everyone needs to do their part (which is crucial in a country where rules vary state-to-state), they've been hesitant to use the DPA to ramp up manufacturing of necessary equipment (except with meat production, apparently).  These failures have nothing to do with politics or ideology, they're just the facts.

9 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

You should.  The administration dropped the ball in a very real way.  It's not political to point out that inaction and incompetence led to loss of life.  It's just a fact. They were late to the game on testing (really late), they've been abysmal at getting supplies to where they need to be to save lives, they've been awful at sending the right message that everyone needs to do their part (which is crucial in a country where rules vary state-to-state), they've been hesitant to use the DPA to ramp up manufacturing of necessary equipment (except with meat production, apparently).  These failures have nothing to do with politics or ideology, they're just the facts.

Yeah, sure.  I just think it is hard to really pinpoint where the xtra deaths came and due to exactly what.  I believe it is going to be much, much easier to tag unnecessary deaths from the 2nd wave.  When the 2nd wave hits places like Lexington or Memphis way harder than it should, the direct carnage caused by Trump's messaging will be impossible to deny.

33 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

As a moderate and someone who thinks that, above all else, this country needs a president who brings stability and isn't going to rock the boat and stoke the flames of hatred between different races and religions in this country... I can't imagine a more qualified candidate.

This country needs a chance to cool down. I get that conservatives want a true conservative and progressives want a true progressive. But do you know what would change if we went from Donald Trump to Bernie Sanders? Or Donald Trump to Ted Cruz? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Biden isn't going to do anything to piss anyone off. That's what's going to lower the ambient political temperature and provide an opportunity to have real, honest conversations between groups of differing demographics.

I get that he is the safe vote right now. 

1 hour ago, Tnt4philly said:

Who said anything about mandatory testing for all? Ramped up means exactly what is means, maybe you should look up the definition before claiming someone else doesn’t know what it means.

So you don’t believe increased testing would have helped us? It’s not entirely trumps fault that testing has been a total debacle, but the lack of testing has made this worse and forced lock downs that may have been prevented. Increasing the amount of testing would have save lives and livelihoods. 

"Increased testing" is nice to say, "ramped up testing" is nice to say.  Of course if you test more people you can then have greater control

But the devil is in the details, and when you look at the reality of mandatory testing of people without symptoms (thats what we're talking about, right, because testing symptomatic people is really too late) then its not as simple as saying "we should have tested more"

Thats an oversimplification.  Imagine if Trump would have mandated that anyone traveling on a plane, subway, train, etc. be tested under penalty of law.  

48 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

As a moderate and someone who thinks that, above all else, this country needs a president who brings stability and isn't going to rock the boat and stoke the flames of hatred between different races and religions in this country... I can't imagine a more qualified candidate.

This country needs a chance to cool down. I get that conservatives want a true conservative and progressives want a true progressive. But do you know what would change if we went from Donald Trump to Bernie Sanders? Or Donald Trump to Ted Cruz? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Biden isn't going to do anything to piss anyone off. That's what's going to lower the ambient political temperature and provide an opportunity to have real, honest conversations between groups of differing demographics.

So Biden is qualified just based on being a lifetime politician?

His ideas are bad, hell the ideas arent even his. He is a true puppet.  To say you should vote for Biden because he basically wont do anything is ridiculous.

So we're going to go back to bowing down to every other country, starting random wars with a depleted military, raising taxes to satisfy the radical socialist wing of the DNC?

23 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

"Increased testing" is nice to say, "ramped up testing" is nice to say.  Of course if you test more people you can then have greater control

But the devil is in the details, and when you look at the reality of mandatory testing of people without symptoms (thats what we're talking about, right, because testing symptomatic people is really too late) then its not as simple as saying "we should have tested more"

Thats an oversimplification.  Imagine if Trump would have mandated that anyone traveling on a plane, subway, train, etc. be tested under penalty of law.  

No, no, no. You are the only one that keeps using the term mandatory. 

1 hour ago, Tnt4philly said:

I get that he is the safe vote right now. 

A vote for Amash says "I don't care if Trump wins again"

22 minutes ago, TomatoPie said:

A vote for Amash says "I don't care if Trump wins again"

Though I really don’t care who wins, other than who I vote for,

my vote for "whoever” says that I agree with "whoever” more than the other candidates. 

14 hours ago, Mike31mt said:

This is rich coming from the "we must appease our chinese communist masters" guy

Tell us again how the Chinese are too powerful and mighty to confront politically or economically, that was fun.  Enjoy voting for another half-drunken, semi-conscious political cuck

Nice try. I said you shouldn’t raise taxes on consumers but you love yourself some big government tax and spend leftism when its your boy at the controls. 

It’s going to be a hard 4 years for you after November buddy. Stay away from sharp objects!

1 hour ago, Mike31mt said:

So Biden is qualified just based on being a lifetime politician?

His ideas are bad, hell the ideas arent even his. He is a true puppet.  To say you should vote for Biden because he basically wont do anything is ridiculous.

So we're going to go back to bowing down to every other country, starting random wars with a depleted military, raising taxes to satisfy the radical socialist wing of the DNC?

Well I disagree. We will bring back Obamacare, lower middle class income taxes after Trump raised them, end corporate welfare, let our transgendered brothers and sisters and non binary serve in the military once again, and most importantly we will no longer surrender to the Russians and North Koreans. It will all be glorious. All hail President Biden!

3 hours ago, Mike31mt said:

So Biden is qualified just based on being a lifetime politician?

His ideas are bad, hell the ideas arent even his. He is a true puppet.  To say you should vote for Biden because he basically wont do anything is ridiculous.

So we're going to go back to bowing down to every other country, starting random wars with a depleted military, raising taxes to satisfy the radical socialist wing of the DNC?

I’m fairly certain Biden will never say he fell in love with Jong Un or kiss the a** of Putin. I’m also certain Biden won’t claim to have given troops a 10% raise that never existed. Trumps tariffs are taxes.

4 hours ago, mayanh8 said:

As a moderate and someone who thinks that, above all else, this country needs a president who brings stability and isn't going to rock the boat and stoke the flames of hatred between different races and religions in this country... I can't imagine a more qualified candidate.

This country needs a chance to cool down. I get that conservatives want a true conservative and progressives want a true progressive. But do you know what would change if we went from Donald Trump to Bernie Sanders? Or Donald Trump to Ted Cruz? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Biden isn't going to do anything to piss anyone off. That's what's going to lower the ambient political temperature and provide an opportunity to have real, honest conversations between groups of differing demographics.

My 2 biggest concerns with Biden are:

1. Will he be able to make it through a term, and that concern would be mainly based on who his VP choice is. 

2. I do feel he's personally pretty moderate compared to a lot of the other choices we've had the last 20 years or so, but will he be allowed to be? 

Out of the three options, I like Amash best however we all know the value of voting 3rd party...

2 hours ago, TomatoPie said:

A vote for Amash says "I don't care if Trump wins again"

Not necessarily.  If a voter does their homework and can logically and correctly conclude that Biden will carry their state they are free to vote Amash.  The same is true if they are in a state that Trump will definitely carry.  However, if they are in a state where the winner is up in the air then yeah.

8 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

My 2 biggest concerns with Biden are:

1. Will he be able to make it through a term, and that concern would be mainly based on who his VP choice is. 

2. I do feel he's personally pretty moderate compared to a lot of the other choices we've had the last 20 years or so, but will he be allowed to be? 

Out of the three options, I like Amash best however we all know the value of voting 3rd party...

Focussing only on 1.  If we're comparing the two candidates and wondering if either one will be alive four years from now, I'd be more concerned about Trump than Biden.  Judging by their demeanor/diet, I'd assume Biden's blood pressure's lower than Trump's.  And Trump's obese, whereas Biden looks like he's probably around normal weight for someone his size.  Biden gets more exercise than Trump.  And eat's a healthier diet.  The odds are, Trump will be gone before Biden, despite Biden being a few years older.

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

Nice try. I said you shouldn’t raise taxes on consumers but you love yourself some big government tax and spend leftism when its your boy at the controls. 

It’s going to be a hard 4 years for you after November buddy. Stay away from sharp objects!

You said we shouldnt engage with China because they are communist, dont have to worry about their people starving and dying, and could outlast any POTUS

But you love yourself some communism when Trump is at the controls

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

Well I disagree. We will bring back Obamacare, lower middle class income taxes after Trump raised them, end corporate welfare, let our transgendered brothers and sisters and non binary serve in the military once again, and most importantly we will no longer surrender to the Russians and North Koreans. It will all be glorious. All hail President Biden!

Oh the days when our military was the weakest it ever was, but we had transgendered soldiers so thats what matters

26 minutes ago, Jsvand12 said:

I’m fairly certain Biden will never say he fell in love with Jong Un or kiss the a** of Putin. I’m also certain Biden won’t claim to have given troops a 10% raise that never existed. Trumps tariffs are taxes.

Biden will appease China and let the world walk all over us--including Putin--just like Obama did.

Maybe Biden will draw some more phony baloney red lines and continue dropping 

Other than that, it would be 4 years of the miscellaneous liberal BS thread but in actual real life

20 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Focussing only on 1.  If we're comparing the two candidates and wondering if either one will be alive four years from now, I'd be more concerned about Trump than Biden.  Judging by their demeanor/diet, I'd assume Biden's blood pressure's lower than Trump's.  And Trump's obese, whereas Biden looks like he's probably around normal weight for someone his size.  Biden gets more exercise than Trump.  And eat's a healthier diet.  The odds are, Trump will be gone before Biden, despite Biden being a few years older.

Was thinking more along the lines of Biden's mental acuity.  I know diehard Dems want to write them off as a stutter and gaffes, I see them as more a sign of declining cognitive function.  So my fear is he chooses an Elizabeth Warren and two years from now is deemed mentally incompetent.  Hello President Warren.

What I have trouble with is that Biden is apparently the best the Dems can do. Few like Trump, but other than hardcore partisan Dems, who really wants Rapey-Joe and his early onset symptoms of dementia in the White House? 

If the Dems offered a much better non-socialist candidate, assuming they have one, they'd win bigly. As it is, the VP running mate is the most important issue since Biden's being unfit for office during his 1st term is all but certain. That VP choice can't be a radical in any way, or 2016 could repeat.

13 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Was thinking more along the lines of Biden's mental acuity.  I know diehard Dems want to write them off as a stutter and gaffes, I see them as more a sign of declining cognitive function.  So my fear is he chooses an Elizabeth Warren and two years from now is deemed mentally incompetent.  Hello President Warren.

There's no such thing.  If there were a system in place that could deem the President mentally incompetent, it would've happened by now.  Trump's proof of that.

3 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

What I have trouble with is that Biden is apparently the best the Dems can do. Few like Trump, but other than hardcore partisan Dems, who really wants Rapey-Joe and his early onset symptoms of dementia in the White House? 

If the Dems offered a much better non-socialist candidate, assuming they have one, they'd win bigly. As it is, the VP running mate is the most important issue since Biden's being unfit for office during his 1st term is all but certain. That VP choice can't be a radical in any way, or 2016 could repeat.

it's rarely about who is "best".  was trump the best the repugs could do in 2016?   people vote for name recognition. people vote for personalities. people fall for lies & identity politics. people vote the way they do for a lot of stupid reasons.  it's rare that the "best" even run for potus. there's a goddamn moron reality show host in the white house right now...making a fool of himself & our country several times a day....much closer to "worst" than "best".  righties who claim they'd consider voting for a dem...if only it were a moderate...but not biden....or...well....any dem....are full of crap.  they were always voting trump because he has an "R" next to his name. 

6 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

There's no such thing.  If there were a system in place that could deem the President mentally incompetent, it would've happened by now.  Trump's proof of that.

I’m not talking about being an idiot. I’m talking about actual dementia or Alzheimer’s. I think a decent number of moderate/slightly right-leaning people share my opinion... His VP choice is going to be absolutely crucial for his campaign. 

I think the 25th Amendment is for guys like Woodrow Wilson who had a stroke in office and literally couldn't do the job.  Edith and his advisors were basically running the show the last 18 months of his second term (including during the Spanish flu).  Trump and Biden not knowing where they are doesn't seem to meet that threshold.

9 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

it's rarely about who is "best".  was trump the best the repugs could do in 2016?   people vote for name recognition. people vote for personalities. people fall for lies & identity politics. people vote the way they do for a lot of stupid reasons.  it's rare that the "best" even run for potus. there's a goddamn moron reality show host in the white house right now...making a fool of himself & our country several times a day....much closer to "worst" than "best".  righties who claim they'd consider voting for a dem...if only it were a moderate...but not biden....or...well....any dem....are full of crap.  they were always voting trump because he has an "R" next to his name. 

I’ll be very honest...Biden’s VP choice is a determining factor for me. I’d label myself a right-leaning moderate overall. I do like a lot of Trump’s ideas and policies, not close to all of them, and I certainly don’t like the manner in which he conducts himself a lot of the time. A true moderate could earn my vote. 

2 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I’m not talking about being an idiot. I’m talking about actual dementia or Alzheimer’s. I think a decent number of moderate/slightly right-leaning people share my opinion... His VP choice is going to be absolutely crucial for his campaign. 

But I'm not talking about opinions, I'm talking about systematic methods for removing someone from office based on cognitive decline.  Trump's shown, over and over again, that his mind is in severe decline (or that he's always been a complete lunatic).  But he's not stepping down because of it and no one's going to remove him because of it.  Reagan likely had Alzheimer's in his second term, but he stayed in office anyway.  No one leaves because of cognitive decline.  If Biden's elected, he's in it until the end of his term.  Worst case scenario, he loses his mind a year before he's done and does something a 1/10th as crazy as Trump does every day.