2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

But I'm not talking about opinions, I'm talking about systematic methods for removing someone from office based on cognitive decline.  Trump's shown, over and over again, that his mind is in severe decline (or that he's always been a complete lunatic).  But he's not stepping down because of it and no one's going to remove him because of it.  Reagan likely had Alzheimer's in his second term, but he stayed in office anyway.  No one leaves because of cognitive decline.  If Biden's elected, he's in it until the end of his term.  Worst case scenario, he loses his mind a year before he's done and does something a 1/10th as crazy as Trump does every day.

I was saying the opinion shared is that in order for Joe to win over the slightly right of center folk, his VP choice is going to be crucial to his success to assuage fears of swinging to the far left if he takes a Warren, etc.  I feel Joe has the capacity to be nothing more than a sock puppet for the far left wingers.

5 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I’ll be very honest...Biden’s VP choice is a determining factor for me. I’d label myself a right-leaning moderate overall. I do like a lot of Trump’s ideas and policies, not close to all of them, and I certainly don’t like the manner in which he conducts himself a lot of the time. A true moderate could earn my vote. 

Just now, mr_hunt said:

 That's fine.  I wouldn't have believed me either, until all these daily corona briefings started happening.

2 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I was saying the opinion shared is that in order for Joe to win over the slightly right of center folk, his VP choice is going to be crucial to his success to assuage fears of swinging to the far left if he takes a Warren, etc.

Well sure, I'm not saying that his VP isn't important.  It is, without a doubt.  He's likely only going to serve one term, so it's important by default because that's who will probably be the Dem nominee in 2024.  But it's important to a lot of different groups.  Biden's choice to make is what group should he appeal to.  Trump appealed to the Christian Right in his choice and it turned out to be a good move.  Biden may chose to pick Warren to appeal to the far left or chose someone more moderate to appeal to the middle.  

My guess is that people like yourself will find fault no matter who he chooses (because you're a Republican and he's not going to pick a Republican), so maybe his best choice would be to appeal to the far left and build the liberal side of the coalition.  Or he could try someone like Harris (who I prefer) and try and appeal to a broader (but perhaps less enthusiastic) range of voters.

Just now, Outlaw said:

 That's fine.  I wouldn't have believed me either, until all these daily corona briefings started happening.

what magical vp candidate would convince you to vote for joe over trump?      

Just now, VanHammersly said:

Well sure, I'm not saying that his VP isn't important.  It is, without a doubt.  He's likely only going to serve one term, so it's important by default because that's who will probably be the Dem nominee in 2024.  But it's important to a lot of different groups.  Biden's choice to make is what group should he appeal to.  Trump appealed to the Christian Right in his choice and it turned out to be a good move.  Biden may chose to pick Warren to appeal to the far left or chose someone more moderate to appeal to the middle.  

My guess is that people like yourself will find fault no matter who he chooses (because you're a Republican and he's not going to pick a Republican), so maybe his best choice would be to appeal to the far left and build the liberal side of the coalition.  Or he could try someone like Harris (who I prefer) and try and appeal to a broader (but perhaps less enthusiastic) range of voters.

I think the broader the better for Joe.  There are a lot of repubs who are over Trump enough where they could be swayed...but not by a far left ticket.

6 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I think the broader the better for Joe.  There are a lot of repubs who are over Trump enough where they could be swayed...but not by a far left ticket.

I have my doubts whether anyone who isn't convinced that literally anyone is better than Trump at this point needs any more convincing.

And there are far more far left Dems than there are non-cult member Republicans, so if it's a numbers game between the two, then the far left wins every time.  

But I still like Harris more because I'd rather have her leading the party in the future than Warren, who's unelectable at the top of the ticket.

4 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

what magical vp candidate would convince you to vote for joe over trump?      

Rand Paul.

I kid, I kid.  Seriously, I think someone like a Tammy Duckworth...senator, a woman of color, and a war veteran who is also blatantly moderate could swing me yet still check enough boxes for Biden with the left.

19 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I feel Joe has the capacity to be nothing more than a sock puppet for the far left wingers.

Then you don't know Joe. He's old, ornery, and a social justice Democrat from a time long past. He's not a progressive. He's secretly good friends with half of the Republicans that currently occupy seats in Congress. That's why Bernie Bros hate him so much. If he was a puppet for them they wouldn't be inventing stories of him raping people in the halls of the Capitol building.

11 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

I have my doubts whether anyone who isn't convinced that literally anyone is better than Trump at this point needs any more convincing.

And there are far more far left Dems than there are non-cult member Republicans, so if it's a numbers game between the two, then the far left wins every time.  

But I still like Harris more because I'd rather have her leading the party in the future than Warren, who's unelectable at the top of the ticket.

He's not wrong. I'm a registered Republican who thinks Donald Trump is an imbecile, embarrassment and not a true conservative. If I lived in a swing state, I'd vote Biden unless he picked Liz Warren as VP -- I will not have any part of elevating her brand of insanity that rejects all economic rationality. I would either stay or home, or vote Amash (which I will be doing since I live in CA).

He should, and I think will, pick either Harris or Abrams. Warren allows Trump to use the socialism card much more effectively.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

He's not wrong. I'm a registered Republican who thinks Donald Trump is an imbecile, embarrassment and not a true conservative. If I lived in a swing state, I'd vote Biden unless he picked Liz Warren as VP -- I will not have any part of elevating her brand of insanity that rejects all economic rationality. I would either stay or home, or vote Amash (which I will be doing since I live in CA).

He should, and I think will, pick either Harris or Abrams. Warren allows Trump to use the socialism card much more effectively.

Thank you for proving my point...there are a decent number of us who fall under this umbrella.

   

3 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

   

You're questioning if I dislike Trump? 

6 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Thank you for proving my point...there are a decent number of us who fall under this umbrella.

There's a pretty big difference between you and Vikas here.  I actually believe Vikas wants to choose someone over Trump.  He points out what a disaster Trump is on here all the time.  With you, I have no idea.  

And I'm not saying Biden should choose Warren.  In fact, I already said he should choose Harris.  But there is an actual numbers game that goes into this question and Warren isn't a bad choice if you're strictly running the numbers for 2020.  He could appeal to the far left and still win.  The problem is when you look into the future, where will that lead.  It gives you a 75 year old unelectable nerdy far left liberal leading the party.  So, it's not a smart play.

7 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

You're questioning if I dislike Trump? 

no...i was reacting to outlaw.  there's nfw he's voting for biden...unless he names ivanka as his vp.   

1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

no...i was reacting to outlaw.  there's nfw he's voting for biden...unless he names ivanka as his vp.   

  Now THAT would be a guarandamntee.  Seriously though, I've really become disgusted with these daily press briefings...not saying I'm re-registering as a Dem by any stretch, but I can't vote for Amash in PA, and I can't foresee voting for Trump.

18 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

He's not wrong. I'm a registered Republican who thinks Donald Trump is an imbecile, embarrassment and not a true conservative. If I lived in a swing state, I'd vote Biden unless he picked Liz Warren as VP -- I will not have any part of elevating her brand of insanity that rejects all economic rationality. I would either stay or home, or vote Amash (which I will be doing since I live in CA).

He should, and I think will, pick either Harris or Abrams. Warren allows Trump to use the socialism card much more effectively.

I agree, though Harris beats Abrams by a mile, based on looks, which matters.  

And Trump's going to use that card no matter what, even though in non-bizzaro world, someone would be using that on him.  I mean, he was already outpacing Obama's spending and that was before we went to the well for another $3 Trillion (or 4, before all this is over....or more maybe?)

6 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

There's a pretty big difference between you and Vikas here.  I actually believe Vikas wants to choose someone over Trump.  He points out what a disaster Trump is on here all the time.  With you, I have no idea.  

And I'm not saying Biden should choose Warren.  In fact, I already said he should choose Harris.  But there is an actual numbers game that goes into this question and Warren isn't a bad choice if you're strictly running the numbers for 2020.  He could appeal to the far left and still win.  The problem is when you look into the future, where will that lead.  It gives you a 75 year old unelectable nerdy far left liberal leading the party.  So, it's not a smart play.

It also energizes Trump's base even more. Biden is winning by staying out of the news cycle. Trump doesn't know what to do when there isn't an opponent to swing wildly at. Don't give him the gift of Warren, or God forbid Sanders. 

Harris -- elevate the next generation, get a minority and not risking a senate seat. Plus, she was friends with his son. It makes too much sense.

39 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

what magical vp candidate would convince you to vote for joe over trump?      

Maybe Sen. Mark Warner. His record is moderate, he has received bipartisan support in the Senate, and has successfully fended off a silly attack from the Trump camp in the past.

Then again, maybe he's too white and male for the Dems though. 

4 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

Maybe Sen. Mark Warner. His record is moderate, he has received bipartisan support in the Senate, and has successfully fended off a silly attack from the Trump camp in the past.

Then again, maybe he's too white and male for the Dems though. 

totally...no way the party nominating joe biden would support a white male.

6 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

Maybe Sen. Mark Warner. His record is moderate, he has received bipartisan support in the Senate, and has successfully fended off a silly attack from the Trump camp in the past.

Then again, maybe he's too white and male for the Dems though. 

I think Warner would be decent as well.  But I think a female is definitely the route they're going.

1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

totally...no way the party nominating joe biden would support a white male.

Then why is there so much "gotta have a minority female running mate" talk from them?

I'm a (R) but have voted for (D) Presidential candidates in the past, and would do so again if they offer one that's not a do-nothing or a socialist.

2 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I think Warner would be decent as well.  But I think a female is definitely the route they're going.

Yeah.  Especially since Biden already said he is picking a woman in the last debate.

2 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I think Warner would be decent as well.  But I think a female is definitely the route they're going.

i'd rather have him than Biden to be honest.

More evidence of corruption, cronyism and absolute failure of this administration to prepare for this pandemic  

"The Trump administration's former vaccine chief repeatedly warned top officials about shortage of critical resources and supplies for fighting the coronavirus as early as January but the administration took no action, according to a whistleblower complaint from Rick Bright, the former head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority who was ousted by Trump officials.

He also said he was pressured to "award lucrative contracts for... drugs even though they lacked scientific merit."