Should I Cut Gannon Some Slack??

[Talonblood]

Reuben Frank writes:

"Gannon is finally showing some flexibility in his scheme, and his unit has allowed 15 points per game the last three weeks after allowing 26 per game the first seven. They're making big plays on both sides of the ball and steamrolling people with the running game."
https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/eagles/how-eagles-team-reminiscent-1999-team

He has a point, but should I/we cut him some slack until the year is over?

[ManchesterEagle]

3 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

Reuben Frank writes:

"Gannon is finally showing some flexibility in his scheme, and his unit has allowed 15 points per game the last three weeks after allowing 26 per game the first seven. They're making big plays on both sides of the ball and steamrolling people with the running game."
 

He has a point, but should I/we cut him some slack until the year is over?

I was always a Schwartz fan and couldn't stand how people expected him to produce a top D with the lack of talent he had.

So on that basis it probably is time for me to cut Gannon some slack. He has been mixing it up more than people give him credit for. The soft coverage against the better QBs is so constant and frustrating though. I guess we should give him next year to adapt, hopefully with some better young playmakers.

[EazyEaglez]

I’d like to see Gannon with some infused legit young talent into his defense. I feel like hasn’t done a great job, but I also feel like he lacks the horses to do what he wants to do. 

[bitbased]

Giving him some leeway now but this game seems somewhat status quo. Whenever we face lower end QBs we shut them down pretty hard but against the more upper tier QBs we get trounced.

[time2rock]

Everyone on this team should be "cut some slack” for the remainder of 2021.  Sirianni is new to his role and is as green as then come.  Ditto Gannon.  And same with Hurts … he has what, 12 starts under his belt?  No one should have expected a year without bumps.  

[Swoop]

Roob needs to go to bed. We played Detroit, gave up 27 to the Chargers as Herbert did whatever he wanted and shut down an average team with a mediocre QB.

[Random Reglar]

slack should be cut by all.  no one has come up with anything close to something that could be done that would make things better immediately.   And there have been improvements.    This is supposed to be a rebuilding year or an assessment or training year.   And despite that,  the Eagles could make the playoffs, plausibly.   I think the Eagles are better than the Giants and Washington, and that's 4 games right there, and if they win all those games,  that's 8 wins there,  I think they're better than the Jets and that's 9.  It's plausible they can beat the Saints (Trevor S as QB) and the Cowboys, at home and the Cowboys could be sitting starters at the end of the season before the playoffs.  It's plausible they could go 11-6.  Last year the Eagles were 4-11-1.   My expectation at this point is at least 5 wins, a big improvement over last year.   Big improvement should = minimal, targeted criticism,  because if they do end up with 5 or more new wins,  they're very likely to take the stay the course model and keep everyone.   I would think they would do that anyway, but with a final win total of 9 or more, a winning record,  I'd be very surprised if they didn't.   

[Random Reglar]

5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’d like to see Gannon with some infused legit young talent into his defense. I feel like hasn’t done a great job, but I also feel like he lacks the horses to do what he wants to do. 

If you want a great defense, it really helps to have a lot of really great players on defense.    This offseason provides a lot of opportunities to add great players to the defense. 

[EazyEaglez]

9 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

If you want a great defense, it really helps to have a lot of really great players on defense.    This offseason provides a lot of opportunities to add great players to the defense. 

As long as Howie doesn’t go deep fishing for a quarterback he has the opportunity to actually make an improvement to this defense. 

[Random Reglar]

8 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

Out of the 12-13 defensive players who get normal playing time I truly believe only 2 or 3 would be legit starters on a playoff team. 

The talent we have(or lack there of) is historically bad 

Maybe you're using the term "historically bad" without knowing what it means.

You can look at the rosters of old teams like the Raiders in 2013.  They had an aging Charles Woodson and that's it.  The Browns before they got Myles Garrett.   The Eagles have quite a few good players who might be getting old.  Fletcher Cox is great, Slay is great.  There is nothing like "historically bad" anywhere.   The Eagles defense needs some new great players, and there are 3 first round picks that could go there, and money for free agents. 

[Random Reglar]

7 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

As long as Howie doesn’t go deep fishing for a quarterback he has the opportunity to actually make an improvement to this defense. 

I expect that to happen.  I expect that I'll be typing sparq and RAS and whatever I can get.  What LBs or Ss were running QBs in high school,  and video of them,   270 pound DEs who are 6'2 and 4.55 with high school running back on their resume.  Me saying how great it would be with Faalele next to Mailata (this would be offense) but guessing that a 380 pound player with that kind of speed and strength and quickness could also be useful on defense in short yardage situations.  

[EazyEaglez]

16 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

I expect that to happen.  I expect that I'll be typing sparq and RAS and whatever I can get.  What LBs or Ss were running QBs in high school,  and video of them,   270 pound DEs who are 6'2 and 4.55 with high school running back on their resume.  Me saying how great it would be with Faalele next to Mailata (this would be offense) but guessing that a 380 pound player with that kind of speed and strength and quickness could also be useful on defense in short yardage situations.  

I just don’t know. Howie really seems (according to some people in the media) like he’s planning to try and get one of these quarterbacks. Personally I think it’s a mistake, and I believe this defensive line could use some upgrading. BG coming off a terrible injury. Cox having his worst season as a player. Barnett all but gone. This defense needs infusions of talent all around, but in particular on the defensive line. There isn’t much depth anymore especially at DE. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

I don't think Gannon should be cut some slack because bottom line his defense has been flat out horrible. 

The last 3 years they've allowed an average of 15 points... OK that's good. But then look at the context. They played the lions who are just horrible. Then they played the Chargers who put up 26 points and that was limited by the long drives both teams had with really limited the total points they could score. 

Against Denver they were much much better. They made some big plays, they got a key turnover and they got some stops in the red zone. And yes this defense lacks top end talent so I guess we should cut him some slack for that. But my issue is, and has been, he hasn't tried to vary things up. He's so afraid of giving up the big play that he's allowing these long drives that keep our offense (which has definitely stepped it up) off the field. 

[kiwieagle]

34 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't think Gannon should be cut some slack because bottom line his defense has been flat out horrible. 

The last 3 years they've allowed an average of 15 points... OK that's good. But then look at the context. They played the lions who are just horrible. Then they played the Chargers who put up 26 points and that was limited by the long drives both teams had with really limited the total points they could score. 

Against Denver they were much much better. They made some big plays, they got a key turnover and they got some stops in the red zone. And yes this defense lacks top end talent so I guess we should cut him some slack for that. But my issue is, and has been, he hasn't tried to vary things up. He's so afraid of giving up the big play that he's allowing these long drives that keep our offense (which has definitely stepped it up) off the field. 

Yep, all about context. It’s just so passive that it’s the sort of the defence that good QBs shred - see Herbert.

Bad QBs don’t have the patience or consistency to methodically move the ball down and score and we do ok - see Bridgewater and Goff.

Rest of the season may be a bit of fools gold as well - we don’t really have a good Qb left to face the rest of the way (assuming Dak rests last week)

[UK_EaglesFan89]

35 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

Yep, all about context. It’s just so passive that it’s the sort of the defence that good QBs shred - see Herbert.

And what frustrates me is that Herbert is a QB that we know needs to be confused pre snap. Disguise stuff etc. 

[Swoop]

Here's what the defense has done against actual QBs this season in Brady, Carr, Mahomes, Dak, and Herbert: 

142 of 170 (84%) for 1,492 yards, 14 TDs and 1 INT. 

Comically bad.

[Bwestbrook36]

9 hours ago, time2rock said:

Everyone on this team should be "cut some slack” for the remainder of 2021.  Sirianni is new to his role and is as green as then come.  Ditto Gannon.  And same with Hurts … he has what, 12 starts under his belt?  No one should have expected a year without bumps.  

What number do we get to before we can stop saying Hurts has only played in x amount of games? Asking for a friend

[Cochis_Calhoun]

I do think talent is an issue, especially at linebacker, the huge talent deficit behind the line means playing the DT's as wide as Gannon sometimes does is an invitation to gash us on the ground, and when he does narrow them up he has the corners playing off and that allows any half decent QB to make completion after completion underneath because our linebackers couldn't cover me, they have to get solid starting linebackers in.

The other thing that keeps being an issue for Eagles defenses the last 4 years is the tackling, I'm sick of watching Eagles players take the wrong angles and go to ground as soon as they get within six feet of a ball carrier so they're left grasping for a shirt as the guy sees them coming and changes direction, stay on your feet to close the distance and only dive when you're hitting the guy or as a last resort to ankle tap someone who's already beaten you.   

[Cochis_Calhoun]

16 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

What number do we get to before we can stop saying Hurts has only played in x amount of games? Asking for a friend

Does there have to be a number?  I'd suggest a full season at least, otherwise we're going to be having threads about still NeEDiNg A FrAnCHisE QuARtErBaCK every year from now until we draft or trade for a QB that puts up 1st Team All Pro numbers from his first start.

[Bwestbrook36]

3 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Does there have to be a number?  I'd suggest a full season at least, otherwise we're going to be having threads about still NeEDiNg A FrAnCHisE QuARtErBaCK every year from now until we draft or trade for a QB that puts up 1st Team All Pro numbers from his first start.

I'm mostly just being a smart ass...... Only QB I remember this being said for after every game 

I don't hear it for Siri or Gannon who have had less game experience I their roles. 

[time2rock]

54 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

What number do we get to before we can stop saying Hurts has only played in x amount of games? Asking for a friend

Meaning he has less than a full year of starts under his belt.  

You don't think he looked better on Sunday ... that it was possibly his best start to date?  I see a player trending upward (with still room for improvement obviously).  

[Bwestbrook36]

6 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Meaning he has less than a full year of starts under his belt.  

You don't think he looked better on Sunday ... that it was possibly his best start to date?  I see a player trending upward (with still room for improvement obviously).  

I talked about hurts getting better and improving and played a great game in other threads.....

 

I'm just being a smart ass, man you can't say sheet about a QB these days. 

Also Gannon and Siri should be getting the same treatment they have even less game experience in their current roles. 

[time2rock]

4 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I talked about hurts getting better and improving and played a great game in other threads.....

 

I'm just being a smart ass, man you can't say sheet about a QB these days. 

Also Gannon and Siri should be getting the same treatment they have even less game experience in their current roles. 

I was only asking because I was genuinely curious of what your assessment of him was (I didn't see any posts in other threads).  Seems people are all over the place.  

Me personally, I am still undecided if he can be "the guy" moving forward or not - I don't think it can be determined yet.  But I do see a player that is improving.  He may not (yet) have some of the traits you look for in a QB (accuracy, etc) but he does bring other skills to the position that somewhat make up for other areas of weakness.  

[Bwestbrook36]

16 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I was only asking because I was genuinely curious of what your assessment of him was (I didn't see any posts in other threads).  Seems people are all over the place.  

Me personally, I am still undecided if he can be "the guy" moving forward or not - I don't think it can be determined yet.  But I do see a player that is improving.  He may not (yet) have some of the traits you look for in a QB (accuracy, etc) but he does bring other skills to the position that somewhat make up for other areas of weakness.  

I said he was "on point" in the Howard thread and that was a response to you.... Later in that thread I said that the ground game has helped Hurts and it makes sense that since Nick has progressed now so can Hurts, they go hand in hand. 

It was the first game I feel like he showed growth and can now continue to grow, now that Nick is starting to get it. 

 

Side note about this thread, it doesn't help Gannon when Barnett keeps screwing him over. People are missing on that being one of the issues Gannon has had to deal with he had effed up how many 3rd down stops now? 

[eagle45]

16 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

Out of the 12-13 defensive players who get normal playing time I truly believe only 2 or 3 would be legit starters on a playoff team. 

The talent we have(or lack there of) is historically bad 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, just playing it out for curiosity...

Hargrave and Cox belong as starters.  Slay belongs as a starter.  

Sweat and Nelson would not start on some talented teams that are loaded at the position, but would not be considered bad starters on a decent defense either.

Everyone else is unquestionably not starting on a good defense.  

So you aren't far off.