2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Yeah - none of the available QBs make sense, because the combination of loss of draft picks and cap space will mean we won't be able to build a strong enough team around them. 

Eagles need to build the team with their current haul of firsts and limited cap space. Then, if Hurts isn't the guy, look at who we can add in 2023.

D desperately needs young talent.

Exactly 

7 hours ago, time2rock said:

It's not just the draft picks that will be needed as compensation to acquire him, it is also the cap space he will eat up.  We are not a QB away from competing like TB was before they acquired Brady - they had a nice group of young talent already in place.  I could just see Lurie and Howie in all their delusions thinking that is the model to try to follow and going for the splash but they are 99.99999% going to find later they were dead wrong and will set this team even further away from competing for another championship.  They need to focus on building the roster with as many young talented playmakers possible and look to add a QB when the right opportunity presents itself.  Having three 1st rd picks isn't "presenting the opportunity" ... finding the right QB prospect that can lead this team for the next 10+ years with deep playoff runs is.  

I wouldn't go near Wilson because of the draft capital it'll take, the potential players you'd have to throw in to the deal and the cap numbers. Add to that his age, this teams overall lack of talent and that he's not having a particularly great year... I'm going nowhere near him.

I agree with the overall sentiment here: Wilson, while talented, is not realistically going to be enough to take this current roster to the Super Bowl in the near future, if you look at the current state of this roster and project what Howie will accomplish with his remaining draft assets and cap space.

A 2022 1st, 2023 1st, 2022 2nd, Jalen Hurts +/- Andre Dillard sounds like a realistic trade projection but it may cost even more than that.

Wilson on this team could be the difference between a divisional game appearance versus a wild card loss, but I don't think he can compensate for the other holes on this roster to take us to the NFCCG or Super Bowl. 

If this team had more talent at baseline, I'd be more optimistic.

I don't want Wilson for the same reasons others have mentioned.  We aren't a good enough team that 1 QB will make us a legit SB contender.  Make the playoffs?  Maybe.  But, we won't have a good enough team to make a run.  With what it would cost in draft picks and cap space, plus I don't see him playing as long as Brady/Rodgers so he has a limited window of opportunity and the first couple seasons at least will be lost trying to build a team around him.  We're just not good enough.  The D needs too many new younger players and we'd have to obtain them via the draft since we don't have much cap space to work with in FA and trading for Wilson makes that worse and you're now losing at least 2 good picks in the draft and maybe even one next season unless Seattle is willing to take players (Hurts for one).  We're not there.  We're not Tampa where we just need a QB to get us over (and they didn't have to trade for Brady). 

With how the season is playing out we're now likely to be drafting outside the top ten with 2 picks in the lower/mid teens and the Colts pick could be anywhere from late teens to mid 20s.  I think some team takes Pickett in the top 10.  Maybe Carson Strong falls to one of our picks and I wouldn't be mad if they used one on him so long as they don't trade up to do it and spend more picks.  Hopefully should be able to get the DE Ojabo and I also wouldn't be mad if they took the C Linderbaum.  Then use the 2nd-4th round picks on any combo of S, CB, LB, DT and grab a younger Jordan Howard in the 5th.  Maybe double dip at DE with one of the 5th rounders. 

I also would be fine with trading down, but still staying in the 1st Round, and gaining an extra 1st/2nd Round 2022 pick, depending which pick and how far we trade down.  With where our picks are falling the really prime players (both top DEs, Hamilton, possibly the 2 best CBs, etc.) will be gone so trading back 6-10 spots is an option if the offer is good.  At that point the quality of players will be similar over the span of the latter half of the 1st Round.

 

I didn’t create this thread because I necessarily want the Eagles to trade for Wilson but because we as fans have to approach this topic with an open mind.

BLG and Jimmy Kempski discussed the same topic in their latest podcast and came up with 7 scenarios.

1) Trade three first-round picks, Jalen Hurts, Dillard and a third-round pick for Deshaun Watson.

2) Trade two first-round picks, Hurts, Dillard, and a third-round pick for Russell Wilson.

3) Trade the worst of the three first-round picks for Matt Ryan.

4) Trade up for Matt Corral, using two first-round picks to get him, with one left over to address another position.

5) Use the first of the three first-round picks for Kenny Pickett.

6) Use the last of the three first-round picks for Malik Willis.

7) Hurts / Gardner Minshew QB competition in 2022.

And while you’re at it, ask yourself the question;

A) do you really think option 7 is the answer? 

B) do you really believe Jeffrey and Howie will have the patience rolling with Hurts or Minchew in 2022 while using their draft capital to address different areas of need if they already made up their mind neighter Hurts or Minchew is the longterm answer?

2 hours ago, Ray75 said:

And while you’re at it, ask yourself the question;

A) do you really think option 7 is the answer? 

B) do you really believe Jeffrey and Howie will have the patience rolling with Hurts or Minchew in 2022 while using their draft capital to address different areas of need if they already made up their mind neighter Hurts or Minchew is the longterm answer?

The answer isn't necessarily option 7 but it might be the best answer... If they aren't in love with any of the QBs in the draft then I think adding talent to this roster and building for the future is absolutely the right thing to do. 

29 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The answer isn't necessarily option 7 but it might be the best answer... If they aren't in love with any of the QBs in the draft then I think adding talent to this roster and building for the future is absolutely the right thing to do. 

If FO is not sold on Hurts or Minchew and we as fans aren’t either, it’s the worst option IMO. You either have a franchise QB or you don’t and without one you aren’t going anywhere.

If I remember correctly both BLG and Jimmy had option 2 (Wilson) as their No.1 option and although I too don’t want to give up that much, I agree with them.

You’d still have two first rounders this year to play with and probably won’t have to worry about the QB position for the next 4-5 years.

Ask yourself the question; are Corral or Pickett that much of an upgrade over Hurts/Minchew and in what draft position would we be in 2023 if we roll with either Hurts or Minchew? Will we even be in a position to draft one of the top QB’s in 2023 or do we still need to give up a ton of draft capital to get there?

16 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Ask yourself the question; are Corral or Pickett that much of an upgrade over Hurts/Minchew and in what draft position would we be in 2023 if we roll with either Hurts or Minchew? Will we even be in a position to draft one of the top QB’s in 2023 or do we still need to give up a ton of draft capital to get there?

If Hurts or Minshew aren't the answer then we won't be in a bad draft position next year. Use the picks this year to acquire some much needed young talent. Why would we trade for Wilson when our team is a long way from contending? That's what I don't get here. 

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

If Hurts or Minshew aren't the answer then we won't be in a bad draft position next year. Use the picks this year to acquire some much needed young talent. Why would we trade for Wilson when our team is a long way from contending? That's what I don't get here. 

Do you think we’d have a better shot at winning the Giants and Niners games if Wilson was our QB? Think about it! It’s the difference between being a borderline play-off team and fighting for the last spot and depending on other teams.

With Hurts/Minchew we’ll likely be a middle of the pack team for 2022 and will wind up with a pick in the teens. To get into the top 3, you’d still have to give up two first rounders.

I’m not leaning one way or another. It’s just that I don’t believe Jeffrey and Howie think that way. Let’s be mediocre and evaluate Hurts/Minchew for another season and if that doesn’t work out, let’s see what QB options we have in 2023. They want results asap IMO.

6 hours ago, Ray75 said:

A) do you really think option 7 is the answer? 

No. I‘m all for option 8: Hurts as the starter and Minshew the backup.

These are seven terrible options, but considering they are coming from two of the worst beat writers we got it‘s hardly a surprise.

Quote

B) do you really believe Jeffrey and Howie will have the patience rolling with Hurts or Minchew in 2022 while using their draft capital to address different areas of need if they already made up their mind neighter Hurts or Minchew is the longterm answer?

No, obviously if they have made their mind up they most likely won‘t.

I don‘t think they have made their mind up against Hurts though. A lot might still depend on the next games.

38 minutes ago, Infam said:

No. I‘m all for option 8: Hurts as the starter and Minshew the backup.

These are seven terrible options, but considering they are coming from two of the worst beat writers we got it‘s hardly a surprise.

No, obviously if they have made their mind up they most likely won‘t.

I don‘t think they have made their mind up against Hurts though. A lot might still depend on the next games.

I don’t consider them one of the worst beatwriters at all. Especially Jimmy. He has been right many times before, you know.

Those aren’t terrible options, just the most likely options IMO.

7 hours ago, Ray75 said:

I didn’t create this thread because I necessarily want the Eagles to trade for Wilson but because we as fans have to approach this topic with an open mind.

BLG and Jimmy Kempski discussed the same topic in their latest podcast and came up with 7 scenarios.

1) Trade three first-round picks, Jalen Hurts, Dillard and a third-round pick for Deshaun Watson.

Too much compensation to give up plus his off field issues = pass.

2) Trade two first-round picks, Hurts, Dillard, and a third-round pick for Russell Wilson.

Too much compensation for the reasons I stated in my post above = pass.

3) Trade the worst of the three first-round picks for Matt Ryan.

NO EFFING WAY!  EFF NO!  Worst option of the lot.

4) Trade up for Matt Corral, using two first-round picks to get him, with one left over to address another position.

I don't think he's worth TWO 1st Round picks.  Pass.  If for some reason he fell to us then it's an option.

5) Use the first of the three first-round picks for Kenny Pickett.

I doubt he falls to our first pick, which will probably be outside the top 10, as I think he might be the first QB drafted, but this is the best option, IMO.

6) Use the last of the three first-round picks for Malik Willis.

I think he's too raw and relies more on his athleticism than he should and will be too much of a project that will require more than 1 season to coach him up until he's ready for the NFL.  Pass.

7) Hurts / Gardner Minshew QB competition in 2022.

This is only an option if they can't bring in another QB either via trade or draft, which really isn't an option, but a circumstance of their inability to make a move for whatever reasons.

And while you’re at it, ask yourself the question;

A) do you really think option 7 is the answer? 

B) do you really believe Jeffrey and Howie will have the patience rolling with Hurts or Minchew in 2022 while using their draft capital to address different areas of need if they already made up their mind neighter Hurts or Minchew is the longterm answer?

Ray, appreciate you wanting to have an open discussion about the QB situation.  It's something we should discuss and be open minded about as it has loads of moving parts.

As I and some others in The Blog have stated, they shouldn't make a move for a QB just to make a move for a QB.  So if they don't think neither Hurts nor Minshew is the long term answer then they shouldn't just go get another QB just because they don't fancy what they already have.  However, if they think they have found their guy then they should do what they can to get him.  My preference is for Option #5 over the rest.  We need way too much help on D to burn all those picks on Wilson/Watson and neither will get us over the hump within 3 seasons the way our team is constructed.  Our O should be better, but our D will still be dreadful and get worse as 'key' players like Cox and Slay get older.  Make either of those trades and we won't be a SB contender for at least 3-4 seasons as we have to rebuild the D with less draft picks and less cap space.  My fear is they give up all those picks for either Wilson/Watson and we end up in purgatory for the length of their contract, finishing 9-8 or 10-7 at best every season and never making a playoff run because we don't have close to complete team on both sides of the ball.

I'd be fine if Pickett fell outside the top 10 and we used our first pick on him and then went Ojabo and either another D player (CB, DT, or even LB) or Linderbaum.  Then trade Hurts and start 2022 with Minshew while you coach Pickett up with the plan being for him to finish 2022 and be your guy going forward.  In other words, don't just throw him into the deep end of the pool.  Let him sit and learn the O, get coaching from the O staff, take snaps in practice vs the 1s on D and bring him along and when he's ready then let him play.  And in this scenario there's cap space to sign a vet FA WR to pair with Smith so you'd also be helping the new young QB (And if you also draft Linderbaum then 4/5 of your OL is set for at least a few seasons with 3 of them being young studs in Mailata/Dickerson/Linderbaum that should be around for 8-10 seasons, again helping the new young QB).  We're playing the long game here so no need to rush it and expect immediate results.  Set yourself up for future success.  Some teams I think might have interest in Hurts in this scenario:  ATL, ARI (good backup to Murray), DET, MIA (good backup to Tua and he'd be used to that, ), NO, HOU, and SEA.  The rest he could be a good caretaker/placeholder or backup while they make their moves.  Maybe we could get a 4th Round pick for him?

My stance on Hurts is his inability to make quick decisions to get the ball out on time causing him to hold onto the ball too long, hit his receivers in stride or throw them open, he doesn't see enough of the field, his pocket presence is poor which is why he dances around in a mostly clean pocket too often and usually runs into pressure, and his mechanics are poor causing too many rainbow/hospital balls.  The last one can be coached up, but the others are things that are more instinctive than about coaching.  Sure, they can be improved upon a bit, but not enough IMO to turn him into a middle of the road starting NFL QB.  He won't get much better than what we're seeing now. 

 

9 hours ago, Ray75 said:

I didn’t create this thread because I necessarily want the Eagles to trade for Wilson but because we as fans have to approach this topic with an open mind.

BLG and Jimmy Kempski discussed the same topic in their latest podcast and came up with 7 scenarios.

1) Trade three first-round picks, Jalen Hurts, Dillard and a third-round pick for Deshaun Watson.

No, just no, at the moment it's not even guaranteed he's still got a career, never mind at that price.

2) Trade two first-round picks, Hurts, Dillard, and a third-round pick for Russell Wilson.

We're not good enough that he'd make the difference, he'll cost a fortune in salary on arrival and you'd have to extend him just as the new TV deal hits which means a market resetting deal that will eat a ton of cap for his decline to retirement, it's not worth it.

3) Trade the worst of the three first-round picks for Matt Ryan.

Matt Ryan is no longer worth a first round pick

4) Trade up for Matt Corral, using two first-round picks to get him, with one left over to address another position.

If we can use the first of our first rounders on Kenny Pickett (see 6), we won't need to trade up for Matt Corral. I wouldn't trade up for Matt Corral.

5) Use the first of the three first-round picks for Kenny Pickett.

Maybe he's this years Joe Burrow, maybe he's this years Zac Wilson, if he falls into our lap you know Howie's going to pull the trigger, and you know he'll turn out to be Zac WIlson.

6) Use the last of the three first-round picks for Malik Willis.

A dual threat Independent school guy who plays mostly FCS Schools and still puts up middling numbers, for a 1st Round pick? GTFO

7) Hurts / Gardner Minshew QB competition in 2022.

Use the firsts to retool the defense to generate turnovers, use a day 2 or 3 pick on a guy like Hooker, Zappe or Hartman and have a competition next training camp, chips fall where they will, best case you pick a Prescott / Wilson mid round gem or Hurts or Minshew kick on and seperate, worst case, you're out a day 2 pick and still have a shot in a proper QB draft next year.

And while you’re at it, ask yourself the question;

A) do you really think option 7 is the answer?  I think given the draft options available it's the safest option, This year is an EJ Manuel / Blake Bortles, 1st off the board level QB draft

B) do you really believe Jeffrey and Howie will have the patience rolling with Hurts or Minchew in 2022 while using their draft capital to address different areas of need if they already made up their mind neighter Hurts or Minchew is the longterm answer? No I don't believe this I think Howie will try and make the splashiest failure he can possibly make of the whole affair.

There is an 8th option, which is seeing if San Fran are willing to let Jimmy G go, or Buffalo will deal Mitch Trubisky for the right sort of price, I don't think either are perfect but they're an upgrade on what we have right now and both are proven good enough to make the play offs with a solid supporting cast. I wouldn't trade a 1st for either in any event, and wouldn't be massively keen on a second personally but if trading a first for Matt Ryan at this point in his career is talked about as a serious option then a Wentz style conditional 2nd / 1st for Garopollo isn't that dumb.

#5 (Pickett) is the best option, but I think when the dust settles he'll be the 1st QB taken... so a massive trade-up, plus a ton of risk. 

13 hours ago, Waiting4Someday said:

#5 (Pickett) is the best option, but I think when the dust settles he'll be the 1st QB taken... so a massive trade-up, plus a ton of risk. 

In an ideal World, Hurts proves all doubters wrong over the next four games and everyone is comfortable going forward with him as the starter in 2022. As a result we’ll be able to use those 3 first rounders to build a good team around him. A pass rusher, DB and LB would be ideal in this scenario.

Unfortunately we don’t live in an ideal World and we have to be prepared this FO will be split on Hurts’s future here and will be looking for a different signal caller.

The problem with drafting a QB high this year is the projection. The QB class isn’t great so it’ll all be about envsioning how a Corral or Pickett will look in your offense. Do you go for the more traditional Mac Jones type of QB or the smaller gunslinger.

Or do you rather give up the farm for the sure thing veteran in Wilson or Watson?

There isn’t a right aswer here IMO. Our FO has to make up their mind in the upcoming weeks whether they want to give Hurts another year or already want to go in a different direction. Hurts probably won’t convince them one way or another in four weeks.

We’re probably going to talk all offseason about this topic and whether you like it or not trade rumors for Wilson, Watson and maybe even Garoppolo will be swirling around until the dust has settled.

13 hours ago, Waiting4Someday said:

#5 (Pickett) is the best option, but I think when the dust settles he'll be the 1st QB taken... so a massive trade-up, plus a ton of risk. 

I like Pickett, but if we need to package multiple picks to go get him, then I would much much rather go get Wilson instead.

1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said:

I like Pickett, but if we need to package multiple picks to go get him, then I would much much rather go get Wilson instead.

Indeed! If you have to package multiple picks to get a guy you have to be super sure he’s worth it. I rather do that for an arguably top 5 QB than a projection.

23 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

Indeed! If you have to package multiple picks to get a guy you have to be super sure he’s worth it. I rather do that for an arguably top 5 QB than a projection.

A 33 year old who isn't having a particularly great year though?

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

A 33 year old who isn't having a particularly great year though?

Don’t look at it in a vacuum. He never had a great OL to begin with and always had to improvise to get something done. His mobility might have declined a tad but I believe he’s still a top 5 QB when healthy. Just look at his stats before the injury.

Going forward with either Hurts or Minchew or a rookie out of a very mediocre class is super risky IMO and might not be a risk this FO is willing to take. To take it even further, you possibly won’t take full advantage of offensive building blocks like Smith and Goedert if you stick with what you have or put a rookie behind center.

You know for sure a Wilson or Watson will definitely make your entire offense better.

1 hour ago, Ray75 said:

Don’t look at it in a vacuum. He never had a great OL to begin with and always had to improvise to get something done. His mobility might have declined at tad but I believe he’s still a top 5 QB when healthy. Just look at his stats before the injury.

I don't disagree with you. He's never had a great OL and so yes he's always have to improvise. But I actually think that's been a big reason for his success. Those improvised plays are highlight reels and I think ultimately those passes are easier to make. Hear me out for a second... A defense can only cover for a certain amount of time before it breaks down. So if he's buying time then the chances of that secondary breaking down are higher. 

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't disagree with you. He's never had a great OL and so yes he's always have to improvise. But I actually think that's been a big reason for his success. Those improvised plays are highlight reels and I think ultimately those passes are easier to make. Hear me out for a second... A defense can only cover for a certain amount of time before it breaks down. So if he's buying time then the chances of that secondary breaking down are higher. 

Agreed! Imagine him playing behind a way better OL or let me put it this way...Russ is getting older, his mobility will decline (which is only natural), for him to extend his NFL career it might be better to rely on his arm more than his mobility going forward. It might be a breath of fresh air to play for a team with a (really) good OL and a unique selling point for us.

Again...I’m not leaning one way or another but I simply can’t see this FO having the patience to wait and develop a QB properly. Lurie and Roseman likely want results next season and if they believe with Hurts the results will be the same or bringing in a rookie will even set them back, they might be intruiged to bring in a sure thing veteran instead.

7 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Agreed! Imagine him playing behind a way better OL or let me put it this way...Russ is getting older, his mobility will decline (which is only natural), for him to extend his NFL career it might be better to rely on his arm more than his mobility going forward. It might be a breath of fresh air to play for a team with a (really) good OL and a unique selling point for us.

Again...I’m not leaning one way or another but I simply can’t see this FO having the patience to wait and develop a QB properly. Lurie and Roseman likely want results next season and if they believe with Hurts the results will be the same or bringing in a rookie will even set them back, they might be intruiged to bring in a sure thing veteran instead.

If we trade the farm for Wilson and he doesn’t rebound but just looks old and washed this team really goes down in flames. That’s as high risk as it gets.

I don’t like it. If it happens I’d hope for the best but I can see this go horribly wrong.

And I would really hate trading for Watson.

8 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Agreed! Imagine him playing behind a way better OL or let me put it this way...Russ is getting older, his mobility will decline (which is only natural), for him to extend his NFL career it might be better to rely on his arm more than his mobility going forward. It might be a breath of fresh air to play for a team with a (really) good OL and a unique selling point for us.

Not the point I'm making bud. I'm saying I'm not so sure Wilson is as good when the play is as it should be. I'm not saying he's bad but I'm not sure he's as good. 

28 minutes ago, Infam said:

If we trade the farm for Wilson and he doesn’t rebound but just looks old and washed this team really goes down in flames. That’s as high risk as it gets.

I don’t like it. If it happens I’d hope for the best but I can see this go horribly wrong.

And I would really hate trading for Watson.

 

2 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Not the point I'm making bud. I'm saying I'm not so sure Wilson is as good when the play is as it should be. I'm not saying he's bad but I'm not sure he's as good. 

I agree with both your points but there’s no denying a trade for Wilson or Watson could pick up steam this offseason.

There’s risk involved for sure but taking a QB early in the draft or rolling with Hurts/Minchew is risky too.

There’s no right or wrong here. We have no influence on what this FO will do. Only thing we can do is discuss it on the EMB.

On 12/11/2021 at 4:40 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He's 33 (?), I think he's on the decline, I think the way he plays lends itself to a fairly rapid decline anyway and this team is far from a contender. The draft ammo and contract to get Wilson is far far too high a price. 

I love Wilson.  loved him coming out of the draft and banged the table for him.  Easily my fave player of the last decade who didn't play for one of my fave teams (Eagles/Ravens).   But major draft capital for him would be a huge mistake.  This type of Qb falls off a cliff like a RB (See:  McNabb/McNair/Steve Young).  He is already a couple years past expiration date.