You Chicken Littles still crying about the Green New Deal happening?

1 hour ago, Dave Moss said:

You Chicken Littles still crying about the Green New Deal happening?

Why would I?  Democrats are the party of moderates.  

9 minutes ago, paco said:

Why would I?  Democrats are the party of moderates.  

Well, none of the progressives have any political power especially compared to Manchin

4 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Well, none of the progressives have any political power especially compared to Manchin

Because they are just a few rando's

1 minute ago, paco said:

Because they are just a few rando's

exactly, a coalition of six people who want the green new deal isn't going to move the needle.  Now if you get over 100 representatives saying an election was fraudulent, that's a completely different situation.  100 > 6

22 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Well, none of the progressives have any political power especially compared to Manchin

You hate Manchin don't you

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

You hate Manchin don't you

Not really, but I think he's by far the most powerful person in the Senate.  Certainly more powerful than Schumer of McConnell.

Just now, Dave Moss said:

Not really, but I think he's by far the most powerful person in the Senate.  Certainly more powerful than Schumer of McConnell.

Because he is the most moderate of the party of moderates? 

1 minute ago, paco said:

Because he is the most moderate of the party of moderates? 

He single-handedly killed the centerpiece of the Biden agenda.  That's what this whole thread is about.

  

8 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

He single-handedly killed the centerpiece of the Biden agenda.  That's what this whole thread is about.

  

Killed it with his moderateness!!!

Just now, paco said:

Killed it with his moderateness!!!

 

3 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

 

Manchin is your leader now Dave, bask in his moderation

3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Manchin is your leader now Dave, bask in his moderation

I don't think he's a leader.  He has a very small following even in his own state.   Which is why we were laughing when Zuker said he was gunning to be President.  But he is the most powerful senator.  It's not even close.

2 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

I don't think he's a leader.  He has a very small following even in his own state.   Which is why we were laughing when Zuker said he was gunning to be President.  But he is the most powerful senator.  It's not even close.

I understand what you are saying but he doesn't have the traditional power of influence over other votes that you'd typically find in a powerful Senator.  His power is built on a special context which is going to end in less than a year after which he'll have no more power than his single vote out of 100.  It is a very temporary situation.

31 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Not really, but I think he's by far the most powerful person in the Senate.  Certainly more powerful than Schumer of McConnell.

Why do you say he's the most powerful person in the Senate?  Because he was the one Senate Democrat willing to vote "no" on the BBB bill?  That hardly makes him the most powerful person in the senate. Voting "no" on a bill put forward by your party's leadership doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he has power.  He voted yes on the infrastructure bill, where was all this talk of his "power" then?

Is he able to influence other people to vote the way he votes?  If not, then his power is limited to simply his vote and he is no more powerful than the other 99 senators in the room.  The senator who can get other people to follow their lead on voting, that's a senator who has power.  

5 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Why do you say he's the most powerful person in the Senate?  Because he was the one Senate Democrat willing to vote "no" on the BBB bill?  That hardly makes him the most powerful person in the senate. Voting "no" on a bill put forward by your party's leadership doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he has power.  He voted yes on the infrastructure bill, where was all this talk of his "power" then?

Is he able to influence other people to vote the way he votes?  If not, then his power is limited to simply his vote and he is no more powerful than the other 99 senators in the room.  The senator who can get other people to follow their lead on voting, that's a senator who has power.  

I think he has power because he single-handedly killed BBB.

8 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

It is a very temporary situation.

Sure, but politics always is temporary.  Especially when you have elections every 2 years.

16 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

I don't think he's a leader.  He has a very small following even in his own state.   Which is why we were laughing when Zuker said he was gunning to be President.  But he is the most powerful senator.  It's not even close.

The awesomeness of that Zuker post is that if by some wild stretch it were to happen, Zuker would paint Manchin as the radical descendent of Karl Marx who will surely bring unending communism to the United States were he to win. 

1 minute ago, Dave Moss said:

Sure, but politics always is temporary.  Especially when you have elections every 2 years.

Typically a strong influential Senator has a run of multiple terms each of which is six years long.  This isn't your typical period or typical context in which a Senator wields a large amount of power.

4 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

I think he has power because he single-handedly killed BBB.

But he didn't "single-handedly" kill the BBB.  50 other senators also plan to vote no on it in it's current version. And their plan to vote no has absolutely nothing to do with Manchin.    So how does that translate to him having "power" let alone being the most powerful senator?  His current plan to vote no on this bill holds precisely the same amount of weight as his "yes" vote on the infrastructure bill.  

1 minute ago, Phillyterp85 said:

But he didn't "single-handedly" kill the BBB.  50 other senators also plan to vote no on it in it's current version. And their plan to vote no has absolutely nothing to do with Manchin.    So how does that translate to him having "power" let alone being the most powerful senator?  His current plan to vote no on this bill holds precisely the same amount of weight as his "yes" vote on the infrastructure bill.  

Sure he did.  He said he wouldn't support it so everyone pretty much shrugged their shoulders and decided it wouldn't pass.  By the way, this isn't a unique viewpoint.  You can find a number of journalists who say the same thing I am.

7 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Typically a strong influential Senator has a run of multiple terms each of which is six years long.  This isn't your typical period or typical context in which a Senator wields a large amount of power.

I don't care if it's typical or not.  Was Barack Obama your typically powerful Senator?  I'd argue no.  Not compared to McCain or Dole.

Just now, Dave Moss said:

Sure he did.  He said he wouldn't support it so everyone pretty much shrugged their shoulders and decided it wouldn't pass.  By the way, this isn't a unique viewpoint.  You can find a number of journalists who say the same thing I am.

I never claimed you were the only one holding this incorrect view 🙂

Again, being the one person in the party willing to vote against what the party leadership wants on one bill doesn't translate to having power.  Again, where was all this talk of his power during the infrastructure bill vote?  What, did his power magically vanish and then reappear all in a matter of weeks?   That's not how power works....

If you were to tell me that he's planning to vote no, and because he's voting no that 5 other senators are following his lead and voting no.  And then if he changes his mind to vote yes and those 5 other senators also change their mind to vote yes to follow his lead.  THAT'S what power in the senate looks like.