The Defense

[ManchesterEagle]

Obviously a lot has been said about the drafting of Hurts and whether we sufficiently upgraded the WR position.

But I feel like the D has been neglected in respect of the draft and the lack of young talent going forward concerns me.

The Eagles have spent only 2 top 96 picks (ie traditional rounds 1-3, not including compensatory) on the D in the past 5 years. There were some really good players available at 53 who could have helped. Espenesa, Fulton or Chinn would have all been really good additions at positions of need.

I personally think Schwartz has done an incredible job with what he's had to work with. Produced a top 5 D in the Super Bowl year and has had the D in the top half and competitive when it counts over the past two years despite, at times, crippling injuries.

I personally think the D will be fine this year. Slay and Hargrave were really good additions. Schwartz knows what he's doing and finally has a legit number 1 corner. CB2 and replacing Jenkins are a concern, as is our LB corps, but I think we will do fine.

But going forwards, Graham is 32 and Cox will turn 30 this year. As good as Slay is, he's 29 and coming off some hamstring issues.

I really feel like it could drop off a cliff in the future, especially if Schwartz leaves when his contract is up.  

[EagleJoe8]

They did what they could in free agency, but I think drafting young talent was done with Wentz in mind. This was never going to be completed in one offseason. Hopefully the draft next year is more defense focused. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

I hear your points and completely get where you are coming him but I'll add the following:

- It's an offense led league. Our offense has stuttered and stalled the last couple of years. And despite the investment on offense they don't have a lot to show for it. 

- This year they invested all FA resources in the defense. They then invested 2 third round picks, a fourth round pick, a fifth round pick, a sixth round pick and a seventh round pick. 

- They have a young franchise QB that they needed to give WR weapons too. And an ageing OL that they need to refresh and restock their OL. They've done a lot to the DL in recent years. 

- I think the big issue is the second round pick. They could have used that on a defensive player and that's a completely fair point to raise. 

[ManchesterEagle]

10 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I hear your points and completely get where you are coming him but I'll add the following:

- It's an offense led league. Our offense has stuttered and stalled the last couple of years. And despite the investment on offense they don't have a lot to show for it. 

- This year they invested all FA resources in the defense. They then invested 2 third round picks, a fourth round pick, a fifth round pick, a sixth round pick and a seventh round pick. 

- They have a young franchise QB that they needed to give WR weapons too. And an ageing OL that they need to refresh and restock their OL. They've done a lot to the DL in recent years. 

- I think the big issue is the second round pick. They could have used that on a defensive player and that's a completely fair point to raise. 

I hear what you're saying. When you talk about the resources they used on D though, you've obviously included the Slay trade. While's that's fair to a degree, Slay is a relatively short term fix given his age. I'm concerned about the lack of young talent.

With it being an offense driven league, well it's certainly tailored towards the O a bit more now, it's more important than ever to have a good D who can deal with these dynamic offenses. Particularly in the playoffs.

My worry is if the D falls off a cliff, Wentz will get frustrated and get back into bad habits of holding the ball too long and trying to make too much happen. He was so good at the end of last year when he was just taking the right options and check downs and letting his skill players do some of the work.

I do agree we need to add to the WR position. It's the Hurts pick that got to me. Really great opportunity to bring in a young player who could help the D for the next 5-10 years and instead we create a QB controversy.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I hear what you're saying. When you talk about the resources they used on D though, you've obviously included the Slay trade. While's that's fair to a degree, Slay is a relatively short term fix given his age. I'm concerned about the lack of young talent.

With it being an offense driven league, well it's certainly tailored towards the O a bit more now, it's more important than ever to have a good D who can deal with these dynamic offenses. Particularly in the playoffs.

My worry is if the D falls off a cliff, Wentz will get frustrated and get back into bad habits of holding the ball too long and trying to make too much happen. He was so good at the end of last year when he was just taking the right options and check downs and letting his skill players do some of the work.

I do agree we need to add to the WR position. It's the Hurts pick that got to me. Really great opportunity to bring in a young player who could help the D for the next 5-10 years and instead we create a QB controversy.

I wasn't going to quote your whole message but there is a lot of really good points there that I'd like to debate. 

I agree about Slay being short term but it's still resources on the defense. Corner has been an issue for years and will be a major issue again in the near future. But it's resources that could have been saved for the draft...

They brought in speed and WRs which should open things up for Wentz without him having to hold on as long. We know Wentz likes to make things happen but a lot of that was down to the offense being so slow and nobody getting open. That shouldn't be an issue for him now though. Not in theory. 

We still need WRs, but we also need to invest in the secondary and at some point the DL. I guess we can't fix it all but there's a lot of concerns going forward. 

[ManchesterEagle]

35 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I wasn't going to quote your whole message but there is a lot of really good points there that I'd like to debate. 

I agree about Slay being short term but it's still resources on the defense. Corner has been an issue for years and will be a major issue again in the near future. But it's resources that could have been saved for the draft...

They brought in speed and WRs which should open things up for Wentz without him having to hold on as long. We know Wentz likes to make things happen but a lot of that was down to the offense being so slow and nobody getting open. That shouldn't be an issue for him now though. Not in theory. 

We still need WRs, but we also need to invest in the secondary and at some point the DL. I guess we can't fix it all but there's a lot of concerns going forward. 

I’m actually excited to have Slay. I share some of your concern that he’s declining but to have a guy who can match up with number 1 receivers is something we haven’t had since Samuel.

Shame about the picks but it was a necessary move.

On the speed point, I kind of think Howie overcompensated a bit. Feels like he has just added a bunch of quick WRs without actually thinking whether they are any good or not.

That being said just love the Reagor pick. I know you did too. I’ve also come round to your way of thinking on not trading down- feel like the 49ers would have taken him over Aiyuk.

[20dawk4life]

LB is a big concern. I'd like to see a Bradham brought back. At this point he must realize he's not going to get a big deal. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

27 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I’m actually excited to have Slay. I share some of your concern that he’s declining but to have a guy who can match up with number 1 receivers is something we haven’t had since Samuel.

Shame about the picks but it was a necessary move.

On the speed point, I kind of think Howie overcompensated a bit. Feels like he has just added a bunch of quick WRs without actually thinking whether they are any good or not.

That being said just love the Reagor pick. I know you did too. I’ve also come round to your way of thinking on not trading down- feel like the 49ers would have taken him over Aiyuk.

I'm not so sure Slay is declining but I fear that drop off is coming soon at he is 29 years old and that is around the time corners tend to decline. I think reasons can be given for his apparent slight drop off last year but this year we could see him drop due to age. We shall see though but what I struggle with is that they've given up assets to bring him in at a time where I just don't think we are going to legitimately contend.

Perhaps Howie did overcompensate but then we were painfully slow last year on both sides of the ball so we needed a real injection of speed.

I think there was an argument to trade down but it brought a risk with it that to me wasn't worth the reward.

[ManchesterEagle]

3 hours ago, 20dawk4life said:

LB is a big concern. I'd like to see a Bradham brought back. At this point he must realize he's not going to get a big deal. 

Bradham makes sense on a small deal. I think they really like TJ Edwards though.

 

[DeathByEagle]

I think all areas other then Backup QB and Safety were ignored in the draft over one factor. Speed.

Howie gambled taking speed over talent. So in reality this team did not improve much in current talent overall but as a speed factor. Do we now have projects that could grow into becoming starters, yes. But its still all question marks. 

So yes defense was ignored in the draft taking a project at LB in the 3rd. The best pick in this draft prob was on defense with Safety Wallace in the 4th. But I feel the offense was ignored just as much in the draft. Reagor, Hightower and Watkins are all projects. I pray one works out for Wentz sake. 

 All the work they did in FA on the defense improved overall. But the offense is still a big question mark after FA and draft. 

[ManchesterEagle]

55 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

I think all areas other then Backup QB and Safety were ignored in the draft over one factor. Speed.

Howie gambled taking speed over talent. So in reality this team did not improve much in current talent overall but as a speed factor. Do we now have projects that could grow into becoming starters, yes. But its still all question marks. 

So yes defense was ignored in the draft taking a project at LB in the 3rd. The best pick in this draft prob was on defense with Safety Wallace in the 4th. But I feel the offense was ignored just as much in the draft. Reagor, Hightower and Watkins are all projects. I pray one works out for Wentz sake. 

 All the work they did in FA on the defense improved overall. But the offense is still a big question mark after FA and draft. 

I agree with most of what you say.

I do think Reagor is better and more polished than a lot of people think. I think his route running is underrated and I believe he will contribute early and often.

But yeah a lot of projects taken who were just quick. Howie overcompensating because of what happened last year.

I think the O will be alright. Everything went wrong at WR last year, but once Wentz started playing better towards the end of the season, it looked pretty good again. 

[Uscg-green]

A CB would have been great in the 2nd round....  just sayin.

[JohnB]

the 2nd round pick on a QB is the only questionable pick for me. I don't watch college football so I don't know the players. I just hope the players make the team and perform well. That being said, I do know I wouldn't have picked a QB at #2 unless I was looking to move on from Wentz. There's enough vets out there to get a serviceable backup for him.

[mrmagoo]

I think I remember defense.

[ManchesterEagle]

13 hours ago, Uscg-green said:

A CB would have been great in the 2nd round....  just sayin.

 

9 hours ago, JohnB said:

the 2nd round pick on a QB is the only questionable pick for me. I don't watch college football so I don't know the players. I just hope the players make the team and perform well. That being said, I do know I wouldn't have picked a QB at #2 unless I was looking to move on from Wentz. There's enough vets out there to get a serviceable backup for him.

 

8 hours ago, mrmagoo said:

I think I remember defense.

Yeah my only issue with this draft is not taking a defensive player in the second, when there were plenty of good ones who could have helped.

But it’s more in the wider context of the lack of investment over the past 5 years.

I think it’s really going to bite us, unless we get really lucky with some of these later round picks.

[NOTW]

This team hasn't drafted a difference maker on defense in 8 years. 

There were defensive players I liked in several rounds that they passed on but time will tell.

They need a CB2, upgrade at DE, have question marks at safety and LB continues to be incredibly weak. 

Can't keep using trade and free agent band-aids. However, Slay and Hargreave were solid additions. 

[ManchesterEagle]

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

This team hasn't drafted a difference maker on defense in 8 years. 

There were defensive players I liked in several rounds that they passed on but time will tell.

They need a CB2, upgrade at DE, have question marks at safety and LB continues to be incredibly weak. 

Can't keep using trade and free agent band-aids. However, Slay and Hargreave were solid additions. 

Exactly - I wouldn’t be surprised if Schwartz doesn’t decide to walk at the end of this year.

He gets a lot of abuse from the fans, but he keeps producing competitive D’s with a lack of real talent.

If he goes some fans might be in for a nasty shock.

[FastFreddie]

Points of hope:
DT position should be absolutely legit.

Slay was a big-time acquisition at a vital position.

There seem to be enough pieces remaining at DE and the other DB spots to field very competitive line and defensive backfield.

 

Points of... non-hope:

Cox is great but appears to be on the decline. Malik Jackson's first productive play as an Eagle hasn't happened yet.

Graham almost certainly is declining too. Barnett is still hit-and-miss. No one behind them scares anyone.

The linebacking depth chart reminds me of all the years after Trotter went to the skins. Not pretty. Hopefully some guys step up, but meh.

The loss of Jenkins is a big, big deal. Dude played literally all the defensive snaps for two straight years. Not saying it wasn't the right call to not invest this year in an aging player, but he's as close to irreplaceable as anyone. Total question mark how the secondary will come together with a shortened off-season and without that continuity.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, FastFreddie said:

There seem to be enough pieces remaining at DE and the other DB spots to field very competitive line and defensive backfield.

I have real concerns about the DE position actually. For arguably the second or third most impactful and important position (especially in this scheme) in football I feel underwhelmed by our options.

We've got decent depth don't get me wrong. I like Sweat and there's potential with Avery if we can figure out how to use him. But BG? He's another year older, and we love him but there's concern there I think. And Barnett? He's a decent #2 but not much more. 

[FastFreddie]

30 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I have real concerns about the DE position actually. For arguably the second or third most impactful and important position (especially in this scheme) in football I feel underwhelmed by our options.

We've got decent depth don't get me wrong. I like Sweat and there's potential with Avery if we can figure out how to use him. But BG? He's another year older, and we love him but there's concern there I think. And Barnett? He's a decent #2 but not much more. 

If the interior of the line is so good (and if Jackson swings out to end in some packages), it could be good enough. Maybe. As you can see, I completely hedge on this by saying I hope they might have enough, but I also am concerned they really don't. Like you said, Graham is definitely the best player there. He was good but not great last year, and the likelihood he's better this year is quite low. We're one Graham or Barnett injury away from a very shaky situation.

There are still guys out there. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone added - just probably not a huge splash move like most of us might prefer.

[Uscg-green]

On 5/3/2020 at 12:20 PM, DeathByEagle said:

So in reality this team did not improve much in current talent overall but as a speed factor.

We need speed desperately.

[Uscg-green]

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

This team hasn't drafted a difference maker on defense in 8 years. 

I was about to say Fletcher Cox says hi but dam that WAS 8 years ago. Time flies.

[Uscg-green]

3 hours ago, FastFreddie said:

Cox is great but appears to be on the decline

He is? Since when? Watch this year with Hargrave next to him he wont have to eat as many double teams. That was the reason for his "decline". He took on everyone in the middle. 

[FastFreddie]

2 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

He is? Since when? Watch this year with Hargrave next to him he wont have to eat as many double teams. That was the reason for his "decline". He took on everyone in the middle. 

I hope you're right. Obviously, Malik Jackson was supposed to be a big piece next to him. Add Hargrave to that too, and you might see a career renaissance. But the big dude was drafted in 2012. Would be silly to assume he's not on the wrong side of his peak performance.

[birdman#12]

I think the defensive tackle group of Cox, Jackson, Hargrave and Ridgeway will collapse the pocket on a regular basis.....and that leads to a number of benefits to a defense.  

The secondary gets the benefit of a QB being rushed or chased out of the pocket and/or causing him to throw before he wants to....It also may allow them to be more aggressive and take more chances for INTs....

The defensive ends will benefit from the QB not staying in the pocket and the chance to chase or collapse down.  

Defensively, certain aspects of the D feeds off the the others.