3 minutes ago, Procus said:

IIRC, Putin began to turn after the Libya fiasco in 2011.  He initially didn't oppose NATO action in Libya, but after seeing what happened in the aftermath, began to change his tune.

The expansion of NATO has always been opposed by Russia. Except for the period where Russia actually wanted to be part of the west, they've objected to NATO gobbling up the former Soviet bloc nations. I think the Obama-era coup in Ukraine was the last straw.

2 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

 

How successful they were is irrelevant.

By this logic, they could be charged with money laundering or any other crime. The fact that they didn't launder money is a meaningless detail.

3 minutes ago, Abracadabra said:

By this logic, they could be charged with money laundering or any other crime. The fact that they didn't launder money is a meaningless detail.

If I tried to launder money and got caught, then what? How are you this stupid?

2 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

If I tried to launder money and got caught, then what? How are you this stupid?

If you "tried" to launder money by doing as little as walking into a Kinko's and smearing your own feces on the wall, I'd say you're guilty of a few crimes but money laundering isn't one of them. 

2 minutes ago, Abracadabra said:

If you "tried" to launder money by doing as little as walking into a Kinko's and smearing your own feces on the wall, I'd say you're guilty of a few crimes but money laundering isn't one of them. 

Yeah the feces guy should just get charged with vandalism and interrupting a session of Congress (I think that one is five years). The guys with the zip ties, carrying the nooses, etc, should get that and then more. Glad we agree, I almost gave up on your ability to tie a pair of shoes.

1 hour ago, Abracadabra said:

Nope. Another western backed regime change operation is being beat back.

The U.S. is threatening to bring NATO right up to Russia's border. This, after promising not to expand NATO after the collapse of the Soviet Union. How would we react is the situation were reversed? Russia's got nowhere to retreat.

Solz!

1 hour ago, Procus said:

IIRC, Putin began to turn after the Libya fiasco in 2011.  He initially didn't oppose NATO action in Libya, but after seeing what happened in the aftermath, began to change his tune.

It was before that. It was because we stopped Milosovich's genocide. 

https://balkaninsight.com/2019/03/22/natos-intervention-changed-western-russian-relations-forever/

1 hour ago, Abracadabra said:

The expansion of NATO has always been opposed by Russia. Except for the period where Russia actually wanted to be part of the west, they've objected to NATO gobbling up the former Soviet bloc nations. I think the Obama-era coup in Ukraine was the last straw.

There can be no better example of the 5th avenue Trumpbot than one who loves Russia more than the United States. 

11 minutes ago, Gannan said:

It was before that. It was because we stopped Milosovich's genocide. 

https://balkaninsight.com/2019/03/22/natos-intervention-changed-western-russian-relations-forever/

He wasn't even in office then.  There was an era after W was in office that he and the American administration got on relatively well

20 minutes ago, Gannan said:

There can be no better example of the 5th avenue Trumpbot than one who loves Russia more than the United States. 

What an ignorant statement.  Were the two D senators and others who wrote to Bill Clinton to express concern over NATO expansion "Russia lovers"? 

https://www.rferl.org/a/1085254.html

NATO: Expansion Critics Write To Clinton

Washington, 27 June 1997 (RFE/RL) - Americans opposed to NATO expansion are stepping up a campaign to win public support for their concerns and writing to President Bill Clinton, asking him to reconsider his NATO policy.

Two senators of Clinton's own Democratic party -- Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) and Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota) -- sent a letter to Clinton this week, requesting "comprehensive responses" to more than two pages of questions they raise about the enlargement process.

Another letter was sent to the White House Thursday by more than 40 former senior officials, ambassadors and government experts, asking Clinton to halt the expansion effort.

16 minutes ago, Procus said:

He wasn't even in office then.  There was an era after W was in office that he and the American administration got on relatively well

I'm aware. But it changed his and Russian leaderships views. Do you think Trump wasn't affected by world events prior to becoming president?

6 minutes ago, Procus said:

What an ignorant statement.  Were the two D senators who wrote to Bill Clinton to express concern over NATO expansion "Russia lovers"? 

https://www.rferl.org/a/1085254.html

NATO: Expansion Critics Write To Clinton

Washington, 27 June 1997 (RFE/RL) - Americans opposed to NATO expansion are stepping up a campaign to win public support for their concerns and writing to President Bill Clinton, asking him to reconsider his NATO policy.

Two senators of Clinton's own Democratic party -- Tom Harkin (D-Iowa) and Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota) -- sent a letter to Clinton this week, requesting "comprehensive responses" to more than two pages of questions they raise about the enlargement process.

Another letter was sent to the White House Thursday by more than 40 former senior officials, ambassadors and government experts, asking Clinton to halt the expansion effort.

Ignorant doves.

Quote

The senators in their letter posed questions such as "why the rush to expand NATO when it is widely agreed that Russian conventional forces are weak and will likely be so for many years."

They're morons and were clearly foolish and wrong. Citing them as an argument is likewise foolish. 

8 minutes ago, Gannan said:

I'm aware. But it changed his and Russian leaderships views. Do you think Trump wasn't affected by world events prior to becoming president?

Ignorant doves.

Yah, a bunch of real doves were arguing against NATO expansion.

https://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/09/opinion/l-don-t-let-russia-derail-nato-expansion-bogus-requirement-489620.html

Howard Baker Jr., Sam Nunn, Brent Scowcroft and Alton Frye (Op-Ed, Feb. 4) argue that Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic are not ready for NATO

Just now, Procus said:

Yah, a bunch of real doves were arguing against NATO expansion.

https://www.nytimes.com/1998/02/09/opinion/l-don-t-let-russia-derail-nato-expansion-bogus-requirement-489620.html

Howard Baker Jr., Sam Nunn, Brent Scowcroft and Alton Frye (Op-Ed, Feb. 4) argue that Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic are not ready for NATO

That's a different argument. Are you pulling a zuker on me and not reading the articles you post?

3 minutes ago, Gannan said:

That's a different argument. Are you pulling a zuker on me and not reading the articles you post?

Look, NATO expansion prevailed - but the point I am making is there are two sides to the issue, and there have been many, including people thought of as hawks, who opposed NATO expansion. 

 

6 hours ago, Gannan said:

This has been Putin's plan all along. 

 

6 hours ago, Dave Moss said:

Is it?  I think he just wants to build Russia back up as a superpower that controls that region of the world.  I also think he sees NATO as a threat, whether it really is or not.

 

6 hours ago, Gannan said:

He's a KGB hardliner who thought the union should have been persevered. If you follow his actions and rhetoric, he wants the former soviet republics either puppeted or flat out annexed. 

 

4 hours ago, Gannan said:

No, but the goals are the same. There's actually a lot of similarity between communism and fascism. They are both forms of collectivism that requires ultimate allegiance to the state, and the expansion of the state. I mentioned this in another thread but we are living in frightening times where the ideological differences between the 2 are becoming less of a factor. We are seeing fascist countries form alliances with communist countries. 

I thought your narrative before was that he wanted to bring back the Czar?  

37 minutes ago, Gannan said:

There can be no better example of the 5th avenue Trumpbot than one who loves Russia more than the United States. 

Depends on what you mean by "united states." There are three entities on this soil using some form of "united states." Two of them are foreign. With regard to the foreign governmental services corporations posing as an American government, there is nothing that I despise more.

1 hour ago, Abracadabra said:

Depends on what you mean by "united states." There are three entities on this soil using some form of "united states." Two of them are foreign. With regard to the foreign governmental services corporations posing as an American government, there is nothing that I despise more.

I just googled it and there’s a number of reputable psychiatric hospitals in the state of Maryland. Looks like maryland.gov is your best resource. Good luck!

1 hour ago, VanHammersly said:

I just googled it and there’s a number of reputable psychiatric hospitals in the state of Maryland. Looks like maryland.gov is your best resource. Good luck!

That's a typical reaction. Fraud 160 years in the making is difficult to contemplate. I must be crazy because the alternative is monstrous.

4 hours ago, Gannan said:

Solz!

Nah, Abracadabra isn’t crazy enough to be Solzhenitsyn.  

Just read a report from Reuters that the Russian led bloc of troops is set to leave Almaty in around 12 days.  Let's see.

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/russia-led-bloc-troops-to-leave-kazakhstan-in-12-days-president

5 hours ago, Procus said:

Just read a report from Reuters that the Russian led bloc of troops is set to leave Almaty in around 12 days.  Let's see.

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/russia-led-bloc-troops-to-leave-kazakhstan-in-12-days-president

So much for the "rebirth of the Soviet Union" nonsense. Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan are likely to increase military, economic and security cooperation with Russia in the face of western aggression but political integration is not in the cards.

14 hours ago, Abracadabra said:

Depends on what you mean by "united states." There are three entities on this soil using some form of "united states." Two of them are foreign. With regard to the foreign governmental services corporations posing as an American government, there is nothing that I despise more.

bath salts. 

15 hours ago, Abracadabra said:

If you "tried" to launder money by doing as little as walking into a Kinko's and smearing your own feces on the wall, I'd say you're guilty of a few crimes but money laundering isn't one of them. 

If you tried to launder money, walking into Kinko's, forcing security to shoot people, and hide the owners in locked rooms, and then smear feces on the walls because YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU NEED TO DO TO LAUNDER MONEY, it really doesn't matter that you are moron.

It matters that you committed a zillion crimes while trying, really stupidly, to perform another. Attempting the crime with intent to crime,  is a crime. That you suck, posted about it on Facebook and got arrested is just you being really nice to Law Enforcement.

On 1/5/2022 at 10:27 PM, toolg said:

This looks like a country preparing for war, and the government (what's left of it) has aligned themselves with Russia.

Let this be caution, this is what happens when you embrace authoritarianism.

Looks like a mostly peaceful protest. 

2 hours ago, Abracadabra said:

So much for the "rebirth of the Soviet Union" nonsense. Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan are likely to increase military, economic and security cooperation with Russia in the face of western aggression but political integration is not in the cards.

Never say never.  Times can change in a blink of an eye.