9 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

The other issue is you can only have 2 players on the IR designated to come back. So if the offense is doing well enough and the receivers are playing well and they need that IR spot for someone else they want to comeback they could end up cutting Jeffery before he even comes back. 

Possibly.  I don't know the cap implications of cutting him during the season compared to now.  

As I said, it's hypothetical until we see 2 things:  1 how the new WRs are doing and 2 how Jeffrey is recovering.  

Like they did with Wallace and Howard the last couple years they'll be answering reporter questions every single week about Jeffrey's health and they'll keep saying they are monitoring it but he hasn't been cleared.  If by chance the new receivers are looking great and they feel they don't want Jeffrey back they'll simply extend his time on IR.

4 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Jeffrey is in a situation like Peters - still gas left in the tank but you're going to deal with injuries, slowing down with age and all that.  

The thing is the Eagles don't have to make any decision today on this.  They will get into camp and preseason and see how the new WRs are doing.  It's all hypothetical until then.  And they'll be monitoring Jeffrey's return.  

As I said before, the top receiving threats include the 2 TEs who are both better options than any other WR besides Jackson and Jeffrey.  So with Jeffrey on IR, Carson is throwing to Ertz, Jackson, Goedert and probably Reagor in that order.  Anyone else will be lucky to get a couple catches a game.  So Ward, JJAW, Goodwin, Hightower and Wakins are all competing to basically be backups and make a few plays here and there or step up to make more plays upon injury.  

At some point, Jackson could get hurt again and Jeffrey is out there with the other young guys.  Hard to say.  

I think what hukd was trying to say is that Jeffrey and Jackson are biding time until their contracts are up.  They wanted to get younger, and drafted 4 WRs in 2 years and 2 of them high.  You draft a 1st and 2nd round WR back to back your're pretty much expecting them to start within a year.

They don't cut rookies, if anythiWhy is this still a question?  Dude's done.ng they stash on the PS. They want to get younger and want to develop these guys for the future. 

Yeah look - I appreciate all of that and I am absolutely fine with monitoring Jeffery, his health and the performance of the other receivers.

I also think people discount too often Ertz and Goedert, although the Eagles don't seem that comfortable with playing them both at the same time all the time, even when they are our best two receivers.

But what hukd said was "Why is this a question, Dude's done." 

I'm just saying, as you say, we need to see how it plays out. If and when Alshon is healthy, does he give us more than the other receivers on the roster? 

I am saying there is a good chance he does. If JJAW turns it round, which I believe is more of a possibility than some on this board, then Jeffery may become expendable. But there is a reasonable chance he won't be a legitimate option.

I just don't like this idea of keeping Watkins/Hightower/Goodwin over Jeffery no matter what, which is what some people seem to be saying.

11 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Possibly.  I don't know the cap implications of cutting him during the season compared to now.  

As I said, it's hypothetical until we see 2 things:  1 how the new WRs are doing and 2 how Jeffrey is recovering.  

Like they did with Wallace and Howard the last couple years they'll be answering reporter questions every single week about Jeffrey's health and they'll keep saying they are monitoring it but he hasn't been cleared.  If by chance the new receivers are looking great and they feel they don't want Jeffrey back they'll simply extend his time on IR.

Yeah that is true I'm not sure why I didn't think of that lol

23 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Possibly.  I don't know the cap implications of cutting him during the season compared to now.  

As I said, it's hypothetical until we see 2 things:  1 how the new WRs are doing and 2 how Jeffrey is recovering.  

Like they did with Wallace and Howard the last couple years they'll be answering reporter questions every single week about Jeffrey's health and they'll keep saying they are monitoring it but he hasn't been cleared.  If by chance the new receivers are looking great and they feel they don't want Jeffrey back they'll simply extend his time on IR.

All seems fine and rational.  I just believe that Alshon is physically expired.  I just have no interest in him suiting up for the Eagles again.  

But yes...if you are going to pay him, sure, stash him on IR and see what our youngsters can do, keeping him as insurance.  We are up against the cap in 2021 and I'd much sooner cut him now so he's not owed $10m next year though.

If it were up to me, I'd "Joe Banner" this and get dirty with Alshon.  I'd let him know that he's not going to play for us in 2020 under any circumstances.  He won't be ready to start the season, and he'll never come off IR, even when healthy.  His contract is such an albatross that he can't be traded.  So if he wants to play football in 2020, the onus is on him and his agent to restructure his deal and seek out a trade.  

 

 

26 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Yeah look - I appreciate all of that and I am absolutely fine with monitoring Jeffery, his health and the performance of the other receivers.

I also think people discount too often Ertz and Goedert, although the Eagles don't seem that comfortable with playing them both at the same time all the time, even when they are our best two receivers.

But what hukd said was "Why is this a question, Dude's done." 

I'm just saying, as you say, we need to see how it plays out. If and when Alshon is healthy, does he give us more than the other receivers on the roster? 

I am saying there is a good chance he does. If JJAW turns it round, which I believe is more of a possibility than some on this board, then Jeffery may become expendable. But there is a reasonable chance he won't be a legitimate option.

I just don't like this idea of keeping Watkins/Hightower/Goodwin over Jeffery no matter what, which is what some people seem to be saying.

I think you have a perfect storm here of a few things regarding why many fans want to move on from Jeffrey.

1. The WR play last year was so bad, everyone gets blame.  Jackson was incredible in week 1 but basically didn't play so he gets a pass.  Agholor was hated and fans wanted him gone.  JJAW could only manage 10 catches despite the 3 starting WRs all being hurt, plus fans are pissed they should have taken Metcalf.  Ward made some plays and showed effort but people dismiss it as weak opponents.  Jeffrey was injured and when he wasn't, he was dropping passes and looked slower. 
2. People want change at the WR position and Jeffrey represents the same old same old.
3. The contract Howie gave him put them in a bad position by paying someone to play part-time and making it impossible to cut or trade him.  Fans don't like the idea of being stuck with him.  Some don't like Jackson's contract either, he got paid to basically play 1 game last year.
4. The speculation that he made the comments about Wentz
5. The perception that Wentz doesn't have a good connection with him and that Wentz prefers other receivers.

On point 4, I don't buy into that stuff.  I've said it before, the only people who know if Jeffrey is any sort of problem in the locker room are the coaches and players and if they don't have an issue, then it doesn't matter what media and fans think.  For all we know, Jeffrey didn't say those things anyway.  

People are looking to the future and ignoring Jeffrey's contribution last year.  They want change, they want to see younger faster guys out there and are excited at the prospect of the speed guys that got drafted this year.  It's just how it is.

7 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

If it were up to me, I'd "Joe Banner" this and get dirty with Alshon.  I'd let him know that he's not going to play for us in 2020 under any circumstances.  He won't be ready to start the season, and he'll never come off IR, even when healthy.  His contract is such an albatross that he can't be traded.  So if he wants to play football in 2020, the onus is on him and his agent to restructure his deal and seek out a trade.  

Very interesting idea.  I don't know that the current Eagles FO operates that way but that's not an approach I've heard anyone suggest so far.

On 5/13/2020 at 11:30 PM, NOTW said:

I think you have a perfect storm here of a few things regarding why many fans want to move on from Jeffrey.

1. The WR play last year was so bad, everyone gets blame.  Jackson was incredible in week 1 but basically didn't play so he gets a pass.  Agholor was hated and fans wanted him gone.  JJAW could only manage 10 catches despite the 3 starting WRs all being hurt, plus fans are pissed they should have taken Metcalf.  Ward made some plays and showed effort but people dismiss it as weak opponents.  Jeffrey was injured and when he wasn't, he was dropping passes and looked slower. 
2. People want change at the WR position and Jeffrey represents the same old same old.
3. The contract Howie gave him put them in a bad position by paying someone to play part-time and making it impossible to cut or trade him.  Fans don't like the idea of being stuck with him.  Some don't like Jackson's contract either, he got paid to basically play 1 game last year.
4. The speculation that he made the comments about Wentz
5. The perception that Wentz doesn't have a good connection with him and that Wentz prefers other receivers.

On point 4, I don't buy into that stuff.  I've said it before, the only people who know if Jeffrey is any sort of problem in the locker room are the coaches and players and if they don't have an issue, then it doesn't matter what media and fans think.  For all we know, Jeffrey didn't say those things anyway.  

People are looking to the future and ignoring Jeffrey's contribution last year.  They want change, they want to see younger faster guys out there and are excited at the prospect of the speed guys that got drafted this year.  It's just how it is.

I honestly think a lot of it comes down to the media storm around the alleged Wentz comments, whether people admit it or not.

The lack of speed was an issue last year, but I think there is a danger of overreaction and while I love the Reagor pick, I just don’t see that the other 3 guys will be able to make a meaningful contribution.

I mean Goodwin was worse than Agholor last year, yet people would rather he play instead of Alshon.

59 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I honestly think a lot of it comes down to the media storm around the alleged Wentz comments, whether people admit it or not.

The lack of speed was an issue last year, but I think there is a danger of overreaction and while I love the Reagor pick, I just don’t see that the other 3 guys will be able to make a meaningful contribution.

I mean Goodwin was worse than Agholor last year, yet people would rather he play instead of Alshon.

I don't think it was an overreaction at all.  If anything, it was an underreaction that has the danger to allow dissenters to say "look, see, speed doesn't work."

Goodwin/Hightower/Watkins were obtained for the combined value of a late 4th or early 5th round pick.  No one loves speed more than me, but the speed needs to be in legitimate football players.  The overwhelming odds are that all 3 of these guys fail.  And when that happens, it's not because speed isn't important...it's because these guys were castoffs obtained for negligible investments.  Reagor is a real investment in a speed.  A 2nd or 3rd round pick would have been a real investment to build on Reagor.

I like the moves to add those guys, but this isn't some "all-in" investment to see what speed does to the offense.  

But yes...I'd rather Goodwin play than Alshon.  I think Alshon is dead weight in the offense.  He gets embarrassingly slower every year...a major injury that keeps him on the shelf for half of 2020 is only going to make things much worse.  He's a liability.  

On 5/13/2020 at 6:23 PM, eagle45 said:

All seems fine and rational.  I just believe that Alshon is physically expired.  I just have no interest in him suiting up for the Eagles again.  

But yes...if you are going to pay him, sure, stash him on IR and see what our youngsters can do, keeping him as insurance.  We are up against the cap in 2021 and I'd much sooner cut him now so he's not owed $10m next year though.

If it were up to me, I'd "Joe Banner" this and get dirty with Alshon.  I'd let him know that he's not going to play for us in 2020 under any circumstances.  He won't be ready to start the season, and he'll never come off IR, even when healthy.  His contract is such an albatross that he can't be traded.  So if he wants to play football in 2020, the onus is on him and his agent to restructure his deal and seek out a trade.  

 

 

I don’t know if the Banner like tactics would work, but I’m guessIng Howie would be willing to try almost anything to get out of his big mistake. 

On 5/13/2020 at 3:31 PM, NOTW said:

Very interesting idea.  I don't know that the current Eagles FO operates that way but that's not an approach I've heard anyone suggest so far.

Its risky.  What if he says, "fine ill take the year off with pay”.  ?   

9 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Its risky.  What if he says, "fine ill take the year off with pay”.  ?   

Same as if they keep him on IR. Point is he wont be on the field which hurts him more not having film out there for an entire year and a half+ which impacts his next contract. 

2 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Same as if they keep him on IR. Point is he wont be on the field which hurts him more not having film out there for an entire year and a half+ which impacts his next contract. 

I guess my concern is i dont know how much he really care about playing vs getting free money.  Is his heart really into playing?

1 minute ago, SNOORDA said:

I guess my concern is i dont know how much he really care about playing vs getting free money.  Is his heart really into playing?

The answer to that question is why he should not be on the field at all for this team. If there is any question to that its his ticket out of here. 2017 this team was more about the guy next to you, not about what are my stats? I want 100 catches, I this, I that. 

That attitude which I truly believe he has is why I dont want him on this field. That attitude can be the difference between a SB winning team and a wild card loss team. Talant can get you only so far, the team attitude takes you to the next level. We saw that in 2017. 

2 hours ago, DeathByEagle said:

That attitude which I truly believe he has is why I dont want him on this field. That attitude can be the difference between a SB winning team and a wild card loss team. Talant can get you only so far, the team attitude takes you to the next level. We saw that in 2017. 

I get the impression that is his attitude just from what we have read and heard. And if that is his attitude then yeah I feel the same. I don't want that guy on the field. Move on. 

On 5/15/2020 at 3:21 PM, eagle45 said:

I don't think it was an overreaction at all.  If anything, it was an underreaction that has the danger to allow dissenters to say "look, see, speed doesn't work."

Goodwin/Hightower/Watkins were obtained for the combined value of a late 4th or early 5th round pick.  No one loves speed more than me, but the speed needs to be in legitimate football players.  The overwhelming odds are that all 3 of these guys fail.  And when that happens, it's not because speed isn't important...it's because these guys were castoffs obtained for negligible investments.  Reagor is a real investment in a speed.  A 2nd or 3rd round pick would have been a real investment to build on Reagor.

I like the moves to add those guys, but this isn't some "all-in" investment to see what speed does to the offense.  

But yes...I'd rather Goodwin play than Alshon.  I think Alshon is dead weight in the offense.  He gets embarrassingly slower every year...a major injury that keeps him on the shelf for half of 2020 is only going to make things much worse.  He's a liability.  

Point taken on the values of Goodwin/Hightower/Watkins.

But on Goodwin rather than Alshon, Goodwin has been horrendous for two straight years and he's coming off chronic knee issues. Last year he had 186 yards in 9 games. He was also credited with more drops than any Eagles receiver (including Agholor). 

Jeffery continues to produce, even when visibly hurt. There may be a point that the injuries become too much, but the guy but up 9 catches for 137 yards in his last game before he was lost for the season. And people want to replace him with rubbish like Goodwin or 6th round rookies.

1 minute ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Point taken on the values of Goodwin/Hightower/Watkins.

But on Goodwin rather than Alshon, Goodwin has been horrendous for two straight years and he's coming off chronic knee issues. Last year he had 186 yards in 9 games. He was also credited with more drops than any Eagles receiver (including Agholor). 

Jeffery continues to produce, even when visibly hurt. There may be a point that the injuries become too much, but the guy but up 9 catches for 137 yards in his last game before he was lost for the season. And people want to replace him with rubbish like Goodwin or 6th round rookies.

Alshon is a big body catching passes from an elite QB who, despite their public animosity, has built up 3 years of chemistry and timing.  What I'm getting at with that is that Wentz knows where he'll be and can put the ball on him.  So he'll put up numbers.  I suppose that's a higher floor than other options, including Goodwin.  So that's fair.  But he's just an anchor in the offense.  He grounds them.  He's going to catch a low % of his targets because he's always draped in coverage.  He's zero threat to break anything for extra yards.  I think the offense is worse with him on the field.

14 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Alshon is a big body catching passes from an elite QB who, despite their public animosity, has built up 3 years of chemistry and timing.  What I'm getting at with that is that Wentz knows where he'll be and can put the ball on him.  So he'll put up numbers.  I suppose that's a higher floor than other options, including Goodwin.  So that's fair.  But he's just an anchor in the offense.  He grounds them.  He's going to catch a low % of his targets because he's always draped in coverage.  He's zero threat to break anything for extra yards.  I think the offense is worse with him on the field.

Correct on the first part of your statement (other than the animosity part which I think has been way overblown).

Look I hear you on the lack of breaking threat. Last year he had lost his acceleration and ability to make a man miss. That probably doesn't change coming off the Lis Franc.

But I just don't agree the offense is worse with him on the field. Before Wentz turned it on at the end of the year his two horrific games were Seattle and New England. Alshon didn't play in either. 

He is a big bodied receiver that Wentz does have timing with. He is a legitimate threat in the red zone. He can still put up close to 1,000 yards even when not healthy. I'm not saying he should be handed anything. See how he looks when he is healthy enough to play. If somebody like JJAW beats him out then great. But if he is the best option at the X, which he very well might be, then he needs to be out there.

On 5/17/2020 at 3:55 PM, SNOORDA said:

I guess my concern is i dont know how much he really care about playing vs getting free money.  Is his heart really into playing?

 

On 5/17/2020 at 4:00 PM, DeathByEagle said:

The answer to that question is why he should not be on the field at all for this team. If there is any question to that its his ticket out of here. 2017 this team was more about the guy next to you, not about what are my stats? I want 100 catches, I this, I that. 

That attitude which I truly believe he has is why I dont want him on this field. That attitude can be the difference between a SB winning team and a wild card loss team. Talant can get you only so far, the team attitude takes you to the next level. We saw that in 2017. 

 

On 5/17/2020 at 6:42 PM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I get the impression that is his attitude just from what we have read and heard. And if that is his attitude then yeah I feel the same. I don't want that guy on the field. Move on. 

This just really frustrates me. Alshon was part of that 2017 team and played through a torn rotator cuff to help us win a Super Bowl.

Last year he was clearly playing hurt, while Desean, that nobody seems to mind, was opting not to get surgery so that he basically missed the year.

The only thing that Alshon is alleged to have done or said is say to the press that he felt the Eagles needed to simplify the offense and Wentz needed to check down more. If that was him, then he shouldn't have said it, but where in the world have you got that Alshon has no heart, or is demanding targets?

30 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

This just really frustrates me. Alshon was part of that 2017 team and played through a torn rotator cuff to help us win a Super Bowl.

Last year he was clearly playing hurt, while Desean, that nobody seems to mind, was opting not to get surgery so that he basically missed the year.

The only thing that Alshon is alleged to have done or said is say to the press that he felt the Eagles needed to simplify the offense and Wentz needed to check down more. If that was him, then he shouldn't have said it, but where in the world have you got that Alshon has no heart, or is demanding targets?

Wrong on the last point. Or are you just remembering last year, and forgetting that Josina’s "source” from the Eagles ran his mouth in 2018 as well? 

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

The only thing that Alshon is alleged to have done or said is say to the press that he felt the Eagles needed to simplify the offense and Wentz needed to check down more. If that was him, then he shouldn't have said it, but where in the world have you got that Alshon has no heart, or is demanding targets?

Do you have proof he didnt say it? Or that he does have his heart into it? Or that he doesnt have a issue with Wentz? You have just as much insight as everyone else does. Nada.

I see his attitude difference between 2017(one year deal) and after he resigned. Interviews after games, comments etc. So thats what i will make my judgement on. I dont read much into articles etc. They are just writing to get views and keep a job. I go by my own thoughts, what I see, hear. 

There is a TON of smoke his way. Yea when there is smoke there is not always a fire in the NFL. But his camp has flames coming out the windows. My money is on the FO wants him gone and only the cap is holding that up. Thats the safe bet on my end. 

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

This just really frustrates me. Alshon was part of that 2017 team and played through a torn rotator cuff to help us win a Super Bowl.

Last year he was clearly playing hurt, while Desean, that nobody seems to mind, was opting not to get surgery so that he basically missed the year.

The only thing that Alshon is alleged to have done or said is say to the press that he felt the Eagles needed to simplify the offense and Wentz needed to check down more. If that was him, then he shouldn't have said it, but where in the world have you got that Alshon has no heart, or is demanding targets?

On the bolded about DeSean, lots of people minded and complained all year about it.  

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

On the bolded about DeSean, lots of people minded and complained all year about it.  

I minded it and hate him all over again for it

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

On the bolded about DeSean, lots of people minded and complained all year about it.  

Yeah everyone was really peed about Desean. Especially when it emerged that he could of gotten the surgery and been back within a few weeks rather than putting it off and in the end missing the entire year. 

4 hours ago, NOTW said:

On the bolded about DeSean, lots of people minded and complained all year about it.  

 

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Yeah everyone was really peed about Desean. Especially when it emerged that he could of gotten the surgery and been back within a few weeks rather than putting it off and in the end missing the entire year. 

Fair comment on both points. My point is more in the pre-season, there is nobody really questioning whether Desean should be on the team or his commitment. It's all about Alshon and I don't think that's necessarily fair (although I get the perception/reality point etc).

On 5/19/2020 at 3:32 PM, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Fair comment on both points. My point is more in the pre-season, there is nobody really questioning whether Desean should be on the team or his commitment. It's all about Alshon and I don't think that's necessarily fair (although I get the perception/reality point etc).

I think there has been a lot of people questioning Jackson and if he were still injured like Jeffery people would likely pile on about getting rid of him too. Even when Jackson was in his prime and Kelly dumped him I remember a lot of people who thought that was a good idea. On a side note the Eagles just got Goodwin for a swap of 6th round picks, so the fact the Eagles couldn’t trade Jackson coming off his best season was just horrible.