8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

My bad.  Usually OTC will figure that into the next year.

S'all good. I think they do end up doing it later in the year

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

If Reagor is any good, I would take him, Sanders, Ertz, Goedert and Ward over James White, Chris Hogan, Edleman, Gronkowski and Amendola/Cooks/Josh Gordon.

Obviously Reagor has to be good. But if he is, who would you replace? Ward seems like the obvious candidate, and maybe someone will beat him out. But a guy who catches 70 percent of his targets isn't someone you want to stick on the bench just because he wasn't a top draft pick. 

 

Ward averaged 9 yards per catch and has been cut 6 times.  Hes a laughable #2 in a 2 TE offense with a #1 WR who hasn’t played a snap yet.  
 

That’s awful.

5 hours ago, Blazehound said:

Can’t see Barnett getting a deal with an cap hit anywhere near 3m.

What is Hargrave's cap hit this year?

4 hours ago, birdman#12 said:

Last year at this time, they projected the eagles would be $40 million over the cap and would need to make some painful moves.

Again, the media was wrong.  These contracts and the salary cap aren't just simple math.  One thing that Roseman is very good at is cap management. .And I'm willing to bet that Roseman already has a game plan for dealing with that next year. 

So while some of the salary cap websites are fun to look at, the simple fact is that the complications and implications of each and every contract come into play and the vague rules and idiosyncrasies of the salary cap are known to but a few outside of the guys in the NFL who have to manage it.

So relax about the "projected" salary cap issue

The Eagles will get under the cap ... just don't expect any free agent signings that you hear the " rumors"  about.   There was a reason they wanted to lock up a cheap backup QB, a reason to not offer Clement a late round tender and a reason they had to redo a $2 mil deal for Douglas.   The pennies are being pinched...  will Howie make it work?  Absolutely... just don't desire any big FA moves until 2022.    Also, expect Wentz to be redone.   

3 hours ago, paco said:

But... they wern't wrong.  They had to make drastic moves to get under the cap.  That's why we are where we are at with Alshon's contract.  It was a move to make short term cap space that we are paying for today.

The Alshon move wasn't needed to do anything.   It allowed more carryover to this year ... which wasn't needed since they are $20 mil under... and just going to carry the bulk into next year.  

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

50 million over includes the roll over from this year.

Nope... go check again... rollovers do not count with Overthecap.com projections.... what you are seeing is they are projecting a $215 mil team cap for 2021 season.  Has nothing to do with rollover from this year.  

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Nope... go check again... rollovers do not count with Overthecap.com projections.... what you are seeing is they are projecting a $215 mil team cap for 2021 season.  Has nothing to do with rollover from this year.  

Already discussed above.

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Already discussed above.

Sorry... just responded to the quote on my notifications.    Just read the posts.... yes OTC will factor in the rollover once it gets officially confirmed to the exact amount.   Also they make the adjustment once the team cap # is announced.  They are very very good at estimating though.  

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Sorry... just responded to the quote on my notifications.    Just read the posts.... yes OTC will factor in the rollover once it gets officially confirmed to the exact amount.   Also they make the adjustment once the team cap # is announced.  They are very very good at estimating though.  

Agreed. But people need to remember it is just that, an estimate. In the podcast OTC admitted that even though its been reported Goodwin signed a 1 year $1.5M deal, they haven't seen the numbers yet to update, so he's still counting as $4M cap hit this year as well as $7M next year. So just that one guy will roughly be a $10M difference in that $50M number. Thats big. 

49 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Ward averaged 9 yards per catch and has been cut 6 times.  Hes a laughable #2 in a 2 TE offense with a #1 WR who hasn’t played a snap yet.  
 

That’s awful.

Yeah, I would hate to have a guy who catches 70 percent of the passes thrown his way in our offense. Maybe we can get Agholor back?

Also, is he any worse than Chris Hogan, who didn't catch an NFL pass until he was 26? Maybe you should demand he give his two super bowl trophies back because he is awful.

Just now, jsb235 said:

Yeah, I would hate to have a guy who catches 70 percent of the passes thrown his way in our offense. Maybe we can get Agholor back?

Also, is he any worse than Chris Hogan, who didn't catch an NFL pass until he was 26? Maybe you should demand he give his two super bowl trophies back because he is awful.

So that Patriots team was well known for winning despite low-end WRs.  Does that mean that's where we should be setting the bar?

The Chiefs won it with a low end defense.  We won it with bad CBs.  Bucs won with Trent Dilfer.

Does that mean all you need are bad WRs, bad CBs, a mediocre defense, and a mediocre QB to win a SB?

10 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Agreed. But people need to remember it is just that, an estimate. In the podcast OTC admitted that even though its been reported Goodwin signed a 1 year $1.5M deal, they haven't seen the numbers yet to update, so he's still counting as $4M cap hit this year as well as $7M next year. So just that one guy will roughly be a $10M difference in that $50M number. Thats big. 

No ... again... the rollover is not figured in yet..... so the $7 mil from next year is the number to look at for him.    But again. if you look at all the numbers I broke it down pretty easily.   After cutting DeSean, Alshon and Goodwin .... giving Barnett a new contract .... and factoring a $15 mil rollover .... we are about $8 mil over the cap.   The big piece that people are missing now and especially after the draft.... Wentz should get a new deal.... that will open up the most cap space $16 to 20 mil depending how they do it.     But again... it's not just about getting under, it's about also being able to make a few moves while being enough under the cap.   They will need to sign the 2021 draft class and a few more FAs to fill in some spots that all the one year deals are taking.     Say they get left with $10 -15 mil under the cap... looking at the rest of the league, they won't be major players in FA next year as FAs get decent $$.   It's ok though, they need to play the young guys, and they will be back to being FA players in 2022.   

51 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

What is Hargrave's cap hit this year?

3.45 million, so very low, since much of it is pushed to the back end:

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Workout Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
2020	27	$1,000,000	$2,450,000	$0		$1,000,000		$3,450,000	1.7%		$26,000,000	($22,550,000)
2021	28	$12,750,000	$2,450,000	$0		$12,750,000		$15,200,000	7.1%		$22,550,000	($7,350,000)
2022	29	$12,750,000	$2,450,000	$250,000		$0		$15,450,000	6.8%		$7,350,000	$8,100,000
2023 📝	30	$0	$2,450,000	$0		$0		$4,900,000	2.0%		$4,900,000	$0
2024	31	$0	$2,450,000	$0		$0		$0	0.0%		$2,450,000	($2,450,000

 

Note: If he plays out his contract, he will incur a 5 million dollar dead cap it in 2023 as the last two years automatically void.  Same reason Darby cost us 2.5 million this year despite being a FA

Just now, paco said:

Very low, since much of it is pushed to the back end:

Year	Age	Base Salary	Prorated Bonus	Workout Bonus		Guaranteed Salary		Cap Number	Cap %		Dead Money & Cap Savings Cut (pre-June 1)Cut (post-June 1)Trade (pre-June 1)Trade (post-June 1)RestructureExtension
2020	27	$1,000,000	$2,450,000	$0		$1,000,000		$3,450,000	1.7%		$26,000,000	($22,550,000)
2021	28	$12,750,000	$2,450,000	$0		$12,750,000		$15,200,000	7.1%		$22,550,000	($7,350,000)
2022	29	$12,750,000	$2,450,000	$250,000		$0		$15,450,000	6.8%		$7,350,000	$8,100,000
2023 📝	30	$0	$2,450,000	$0		$0		$4,900,000	2.0%		$4,900,000	$0
2024	31	$0	$2,450,000	$0		$0		$0	0.0%		$2,450,000	($2,450,000

 

Note: If he plays out his contract, he will incur a 5 million dollar dead cap it in 2023 as the last two years automatically void.  Same reason Darby cost us 2.5 million this year despite being a FA

This is what Barnett should be looking at if he gets a new deal... cap hit should lower to about $3 mil.  Save us about $7 mil.    BTW... Hargrave is a great candidate to get a restructure to save some cap space.... he is young enough and they could get him into 2023 or 2024.  

44 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

The Alshon move wasn't needed to do anything.   It allowed more carryover to this year ... which wasn't needed since they are $20 mil under... and just going to carry the bulk into next year.  

I'm trying to make this question not sound snarky, but I'm failing:

 

So why did they do it?  By your own logic, they created space to roll over... not doing anything would have had the same effect, correct?  They created room but lost flexibility since he had no gaurenteed money this year before the restructure.  

11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So that Patriots team was well known for winning despite low-end WRs.  Does that mean that's where we should be setting the bar?

The Chiefs won it with a low end defense.  We won it with bad CBs.  Bucs won with Trent Dilfer.

Does that mean all you need are bad WRs, bad CBs, a mediocre defense, and a mediocre QB to win a SB?

You were the one who stuck his nose in the bees nest, and now you are made about getting stung. I didn't ask for your opinion. You offered it up. You said Greg Ward is horrible. I brought up a team that won a lot of games with a player exactly like Greg Ward playing a lot of snaps at WR2. Now you are mad that I used a concrete example of how you are wrong. Maybe don't make hot takes if your only response to being shown how wrong you are is "Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl."

8 minutes ago, paco said:

I'm trying to make this question not sound snarky, but I'm failing:

 

So why did they do it?  By your own logic, they created space to roll over... not doing anything would have had the same effect, correct?  They created room but lost flexibility since he had no gaurenteed money this year before the restructure.  

OK.... so I can;t figure out why they did it except for the fact it may have alllowed them to sign or trade for a player last year.    They opened up cap space for 2019 with the Alshon restructure.... what did they do with that money?   They rolled it into this year?   But they guaranteed his $$ this year which is causing the bigger cap hit going forward?     

So it's a wash right?     Again... you can be snarky and tell me why....  IDK ... we can debate that.  What I am saying it that I am looking at exactly how it turned out... it didn't create any extra flexibility did it?    Not for 2020 or later... it did just for 2019.  Which they didn't  do anything with.     They carried forward more cap space... that they will use to offset the extra cap hit for the same player.   That is how it functioned... how it was intended????   IDK?

4 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

You were the one who stuck his nose in the bees nest, and now you are made about getting stung. I didn't ask for your opinion. You offered it up. You said Greg Ward is horrible. I brought up a team that won a lot of games with a player exactly like Greg Ward playing a lot of snaps at WR2. Now you are mad that I used a concrete example of how you are wrong. Maybe don't make hot takes if your only response to being shown how wrong you are is "Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl."

I’ll say it again.  Greg Ward is a horrible #2.  Find someone knowledgeable who disagrees with that.  It’s reality, not a hot take.

31 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

No ... again... the rollover is not figured in yet..... so the $7 mil from next year is the number to look at for him.    But again. if you look at all the numbers I broke it down pretty easily.   After cutting DeSean, Alshon and Goodwin .... giving Barnett a new contract .... and factoring a $15 mil rollover .... we are about $8 mil over the cap.   The big piece that people are missing now and especially after the draft.... Wentz should get a new deal.... that will open up the most cap space $16 to 20 mil depending how they do it.     But again... it's not just about getting under, it's about also being able to make a few moves while being enough under the cap.   They will need to sign the 2021 draft class and a few more FAs to fill in some spots that all the one year deals are taking.     Say they get left with $10 -15 mil under the cap... looking at the rest of the league, they won't be major players in FA next year as FAs get decent $$.   It's ok though, they need to play the young guys, and they will be back to being FA players in 2022.   

Uh, yea, i'm the one that said rollover is not in the projection above. My post had 0 to do with rollover and was all about how OTC has Goodwins contract completely wrong in their estimate and admitted it. There is no $7M next year for him. He's also not $4M this year. They admitted all that despite showing it currently in their projection. Once they fix his contract, it's going to around $3M added to the cap space this year, and remove $7M from the $50M over number next year. 

Direct words from the guy that runs OTC

Quote

 First thing I’ll throw in there is the [Marquise] Goodwin deal. I have, again, absolutely no idea as to what his numbers are. So, I have him counting at seven [million]. So, let’s just cut him, because he’s not going to count at seven and he’s probably just a one-year flier.

 

20 minutes ago, paco said:

I'm trying to make this question not sound snarky, but I'm failing:

 

So why did they do it?  By your own logic, they created space to roll over... not doing anything would have had the same effect, correct?  They created room but lost flexibility since he had no gaurenteed money this year before the restructure.  

My best guess is they did in case they were able to trade for Ramsey or Slay. They reportedly were in on both, so they made the extra space before hand in hopes they could trade for someone in season. 

9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

OK.... so I can;t figure out why they did it except for the fact it may have alllowed them to sign or trade for a player last year.    They opened up cap space for 2019 with the Alshon restructure.... what did they do with that money?   They rolled it into this year?   But they guaranteed his $$ this year which is causing the bigger cap hit going forward?     

So it's a wash right?     Again... you can be snarky and tell me why....  IDK ... we can debate that.  What I am saying it that I am looking at exactly how it turned out... it didn't create any extra flexibility did it?    Not for 2020 or later... it did just for 2019.  Which they didn't  do anything with.     They carried forward more cap space... that they will use to offset the extra cap hit for the same player.   That is how it functioned... how it was intended????   IDK?

I think we are on the same page.  Again, I wasn't trying to be snarky, was hard to word it without the question sounding that way.

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

My best guess is they did in case they were able to trade for Ramsey or Slay. They reportedly were in on both, so they made the extra space before hand in hopes they could trade for someone in season. 

That makes sense.  I was looking at the transactions that happened shortly after and came up empty.  I forgot about the whole Ramsey situation last year.

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I’ll say it again.  Greg Ward is a horrible #2.  Find someone knowledgeable who disagrees with that.  It’s reality, not a hot take.

Again, how is he any worse than Chris Hogan? Please let me know.

47 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Agreed. But people need to remember it is just that, an estimate. In the podcast OTC admitted that even though its been reported Goodwin signed a 1 year $1.5M deal, they haven't seen the numbers yet to update, so he's still counting as $4M cap hit this year as well as $7M next year. So just that one guy will roughly be a $10M difference in that $50M number. Thats big. 

Thanks. 

I've been asking about the Goodwin contract. There was one rumor from Mike Kaye, but no one else to confirm and nothing on mainstream media. 

4 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Uh, yea, i'm the one that said rollover is not in the projection above. My post had 0 to do with rollover and was all about how OTC has Goodwins contract completely wrong in their estimate and admitted it. There is no $7M next year for him next year. He's also not $4M this year. They admitted all that despite showing it currently in their projection. 

Right.... they also didn't factor in the draft classes yet either.... so we can spin however we want.   They do a great job estimating and they also do a great job to communicating what they have yet to factor.   Great website if you know how to look at the numbers.  Their accuracy for predicting the comp picks and showing the cap hits for the draft picks is also very accurate.

Big picture... cut the 3 vet WRs... redo Barnett... carry forward the money.... about $8 mil over before we start making moves to get under.  The players to look at ... Wentz, Cox, Ertz and Hargrave.  The rest don't have enough impact to lower the cap #.    After those moves are made to get under... we have to factor in paying the 2021 draft class and probably have $10-15 mil to spend on FA.   We shouldn't be major players in FA, but we won't be needing to cut a bunch of players either. 

4 minutes ago, paco said:

I think we are on the same page.  Again, I wasn't trying to be snarky, was hard to word it without the question sounding that way.

That makes sense.  I was looking at the transactions that happened shortly after and came up empty.  I forgot about the whole Ramsey situation last year.

Yeah... to me it was a 2019 move... that turned out didn't need to happen.  It is what it is.  It's not going to kill us like some people make it out to either.