15 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

i was just busting your balls.  i've dealt with super stressful jobs like that where 50-60+ hours per week are expected and there's no such thing as a day off w/o phone calls, etc.  it's turrible.  add a kid to the mix...and actually wanting to see them once in a while, go to their sports, school events, etc...and it's unbearable. it's the reason i left my previous job. 

i'm actually going through a similar situation right now...boss is retiring next month & asked if i was interested in his job.  my short answer was hell no for all the reasons you mentioned. 

We have a Product Manager, who's role is determining what we need to add, change, offer, etc. as far as features or completely new products for the future. I think he is also involved in a lot of the financials of the equipment group and forecasting the factory load for every month so that our manufacturing facility has all resources needed (people, materials, tooling, etc.) to meet those numbers.

He was my manager for the first 3 years and over saw the 5 of us in our Product Applications group. Then a year ago they decided to create an Applications Manager role, which is a bridge between my group and the Product Manager. They wanted one of the Applications people to take that new role, so a few of us a interviewed and it came down to me and another guy (who is a superstar) and he got the role (would have been my #1 draft pick  ). That role now takes on a LOT of the financial and forecasting responsibilities so that the Product Manager can focus more on driving or products and offerings forward. 

BOTH of those guys are 99% expected to NOT make the move to Minneapolis...so they will only be around as long as it takes them to find another job is my guess, with the longest possible time-frame being July of 2021. That will create two management openings, so part of me can see them looking to me for one of them, especially since there are 3 other people in our group: 1 permanently works from home in Florida and is like 60 and will not move and have no interest in either role; 1 is early 50s but is also saying "F no" to moving and already interviewed with one of our major competitors for a role a couple days ago; the 3rd is a young guy in his mid-20s who doesn't have the temperament/experience/work-ethic/drive for something like that, and he's actually from Kansas/Nebraska area that he wants to return to, and has been interviewing with a company in Kansas City for the past few weeks so he'll likely be adios soon to (which is funny because EVERYONE in our office expects him to be the first person to jump on the move back to the midwest). 

So I see high chances in the next 12 months of them trying to get me to accept one of those managerial roles, both of which are easily twice the work/effort I do now for what I can't imagine would be more than a 20% jump in pay... and of the 6 of us on our team that are all effective in our roles, 4 of them seem 100% likely to leave, 1 is remote in Florida, and the last would be me vacating my role (that nobody else has experience/knowledge of with the other guy planning his departure), so I feel like those positions will become even more challenging because you're going to have nobody working under you in the office that has any familiarity with our products or with our customer base... So I'm hoping there are enough people in the Org looking for a jump to a managerial position that will want to take those roles so that they can keep the only person who knows our equipment (me) in place to help keep things afloat. 

hopefully they won't give the mgmt position to some maroon who will make your life more difficult. in my sitch, they're most likely giving the job to one of my co-workers who is a decent enough guy with lots of experience w/ the company (in his area, anyway) but not very educated. yesterday afternoon i had to explain to him that .0208 is 2.08%.  it blew his f'n mind.   he had spent most of the day trying to figure out how 1 out of 48 equals 2.08%.  he's like....i kept getting .0208!  yeah, that's most likely going to be my new boss. 

 

4 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

hopefully they won't give the mgmt position to some maroon who will make your life more difficult. in my sitch, they're most likely giving the job to one of my co-workers who is a decent enough guy with lots of experience w/ the company (in his area, anyway) but not very educated. yesterday afternoon i had to explain to him that .0208 is 2.08%.  it blew his f'n mind.   he had spent most of the day trying to figure out how 1 out of 48 equals 2.08%.  he's like....i kept getting .0208!  yeah, that's most likely going to be my new boss. 

 

lmao that's awesome. Both guys we have now are really solid human beings, don't micromanage in the slightest, and both just know/understand a F ton about our industry, the products, and even a solid bit about what our competitors do/offer. I'm probably closest to them in ability, but don't have some undying passion for HVAC like some of these guys do, so for me I'm just happy/prideful and being really good and what I know and communicating it to others. (I had to give some web-based presentation on Tuesday to like 30 Engineers with PE licenses looking to get PDH credits). 

If I knew with absolute certainty that I could take on a higher role, and if I didn't like/enjoy it or didn't seem to be a great fit, get bumped back down to my current role no problem, I would be all over it! But I've been programmed to believe that one failure in any role overshadows years of excellence in other areas. Of all the dudes I've seen SUCK at their job and just get moved to another position, I have never once been given that same kind of treatment. 

I use to work consistent 60-80 hour weeks with a lot of weekend work back in my developer days.  Now that I've moved up the ladder I work 40-50 hours of the week and spend most of the time yelling at people on the phone. 

10 minutes ago, paco said:

I use to work consistent 60-80 hour weeks with a lot of weekend work back in my developer days.  Now that I've moved up the ladder I work 40-50 hours of the week and spend most of the time yelling at people on the phone. 

Which do you enjoy more tho?

17 minutes ago, Agent23 said:

Which do you enjoy more tho?

Each has its perks.  While the hours sucked as a developer, I could put on some head phones, blast some music and code for hours on end.  And I got to be creative with my solutions.  Apparently I'm the first person to create dynamic variables using ESQL (a language for Websphere Message Broker) for example.  All and all, I found coding more "fun".

 

But I probably enjoy being the lead architect more.  I get to oversee the creation and implementation of large projects vs just my little sphere of control as a coder.  Plus I get to mentor more, which I really enjoy.  But the downside is when you have either people who are half a**ing it or people who just don't get it.  You have to sink a lot of energy  into dragging both groups across the finish line.  And dealing with project managers can be frustrating.  Good ones have a general idea what the tech team is doing and work hand in hand with me.  Bad ones just look and numbers and ignore input.  One of the ones on my current project fell into the "bad" category to start with, but I beat him up so much he's actually listening now  

Just now, paco said:

Each has its perks.  While the hours sucked as a developer, I could put on some head phones, blast some music and code for hours on end.  And I got to be creative with my solutions.  Apparently I'm the first person to create dynamic variables using ESQL (a language for Websphere Message Broker) for example.  

 

But I probably enjoy being the lead architect more.  I get to oversee the creation and implementation of large projects vs just my little sphere of control as a coder.  I get to mentor more, which I really enjoy.  But the downside is when you have either people who are half a**ing it or people who just don't get it.  You have to sink a lot of energy  into dragging both groups across the finish line.  And dealing with project managers can be frustrating.  Good ones have a general idea what the tech team is doing and work hand in hand with me.  Bad ones just look and numbers and ignore input.  

I'm not familiar with anything coding related at really, but when I was still working with temperature controls and building management systems, a lot of our head end platforms would use Microsoft SQL Server has their "home base" or sorts to allow virtual databases and front ends to exist. Is the ESQL you mentioned something similar where they are creating those database environments those systems live on, or is it just similar acronyms for something complete different? 

9 minutes ago, Agent23 said:

I'm not familiar with anything coding related at really, but when I was still working with temperature controls and building management systems, a lot of our head end platforms would use Microsoft SQL Server has their "home base" or sorts to allow virtual databases and front ends to exist. Is the ESQL you mentioned something similar where they are creating those database environments those systems live on, or is it just similar acronyms for something complete different? 

You're better off pretending ESQL doesn't exist.  It was found only in Websphere Message Broker, which is a graphical integration platform.  Message Broker, Mule, Oracle ESB, IIB, BEA Weblogic, etc all create flows by dropping icons in a workspace, connecting them up and configuring them.  It saves time so you are not constantly building connections to a message queue or a database instance.  

 

Where ESQL came into play was in the compute node in Message Broker.  Basically a compute node lets you do all the custom stuff you want, like calculations or transforming a message.  ESQL was a bastardized version of SQL to accomplish this.  So while in some ways it resembled SQL, its really nothing like it. (SQL is used strictly for interacting with relational databases)   And it was not easy to pick up, the documentation sucked.  So around 2006 they started offering a JavaComputeNode because nobody wanted to learn ESQL but everyone knows Java.  Today Message Broker is a relic and IBM now pushes IIB as their main ESB platform.

 

Sorry for this history lesson, I haven't been a coder in a decade and haven't touched Message Broker since 2006.     But if you care, here is a reference guide.

54 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

hopefully they won't give the mgmt position to some maroon who will make your life more difficult. in my sitch, they're most likely giving the job to one of my co-workers who is a decent enough guy with lots of experience w/ the company (in his area, anyway) but not very educated. yesterday afternoon i had to explain to him that .0208 is 2.08%.  it blew his f'n mind.   he had spent most of the day trying to figure out how 1 out of 48 equals 2.08%.  he's like....i kept getting .0208!  yeah, that's most likely going to be my new boss. 

 

I had that argument with my friend before. We were in second or third grade. 

47 minutes ago, paco said:

I use to work consistent 60-80 hour weeks with a lot of weekend work back in my developer days.  Now that I've moved up the ladder I work 40-50 hours of the week and spend most of the time yelling at people on the phone. 

Work for dell IT department now? Vikas might be pissed you're creeping into his territory 

3 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

Work for dell IT department now? Visas might be pissed you're creeping into his territory 

Consulting.  Thus the travel (pre pandemic)

26 minutes ago, paco said:

Consulting.  Thus the travel (pre pandemic)

50 minutes ago, mikemack8 said:

We've been joking that the Bob's saw the $5M in annual payroll/salary benefits (a conservative figure) that will be saved by moving us to Minnesota and having 80% or more of our group voluntarily quit lmao. 

3 hours ago, mr_hunt said:

i was just busting your balls.  i've dealt with super stressful jobs like that where 50-60+ hours per week are expected and there's no such thing as a day off w/o phone calls, etc.  it's turrible.  add a kid to the mix...and actually wanting to see them once in a while, go to their sports, school events, etc...and it's unbearable. it's the reason i left my previous job. 

i'm actually going through a similar situation right now...boss is retiring next month & asked if i was interested in his job.  my short answer was hell no for all the reasons you mentioned. 

That's why the suicide rate in Japan for businessmen is through the roof.

That and the micro dongs

 

On 5/21/2020 at 1:22 PM, bobeph said:

My wife's sister (no pics) used to live in Baldwinsville, NY just outside of Syracuse.  Never went there in the winter, but they said it sucked.  It was a totally different thing in the summer though.  We took boat trips from there all the way into lake Ontario.  That was fun sheet.  Fun place in the summer if you like boating and boozing.  Once saw a boat who’s owner named it "Phaaa-Que” 

Pics?

On 5/22/2020 at 8:17 AM, Agent23 said:

I think I looked up demographics out of curiosity after I bought my house and its something like 97% white Not that those people can't be arseholes too, but in general the area feels populated by people that just want to raise a family and stay out of drama. 

This aged perfectly

On 5/22/2020 at 5:19 PM, Agent23 said:

While I still got some inches on bung, I am not a tall male coming in 5'9, maybe 5'10 on a phenomenal posture day. I have spent MANY nights in Wisconsin over the years, over at least 10 separate visits, and EVERY bar I go to has at least half a dozen chicks taller than me, easily. And we BAR HOP each night! In upstate NY, and hell even in Boston, I might see an occasional woman now and then that I have to look up at, but in WI it just never ending.

I imagine MN is more of the same, so while my dad bod may be super hawt, not sure if the lack of not being 6'3" will be extra worse.... 

Something is definitely going on out there with the tallness. My friend was out there in September and he said he didn't see a single girl under 6'4" lol. That was at the Minnesota state Fair. He told me that because he knows I hate tall girls and told me I would hate it out there plus with the cold lol. 

I heard that on Wednesday's you can just stroll into the local Minnesota target store and hello help yourself.  Nice perk.  

3 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

For years I wanted what I have now, a Regional Sales Role that would allow me to work from home and not have to manage others.  Set my own schedule and travel (when things are normal) at my own pace.  Minimal supervision from my boss.  I don't miss managing people.  I had to, in order to get in the position to be considered for the role I have now.  But I never want to go back to that.  Just lock up new business, maintain existing business and make sure my expense reports are accurate.  Done, Done and Done.  

Back when we were still in Denver, a former co worker (whom I hold in high regard) offered me a sales job within the company.  My territory would have been the Rockies to the Pacific coast.  Less travel.  Less stress (sans quotas).  The only thing that kept me from taking the job was that we would have been locked into the west and our family is back in the Philly area so we had plans to move back (which we ended up doing).  

 

If they told me I could live anywhere and take that job, I might have jumped at it.  I don't mind the extra 3 hours in the air.

9 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Something is definitely going on out there with the tallness. My friend was out there in September and he said he didn't see a single girl under 6'4" lol. That was at the Minnesota state Fair. He told me that because he knows I hate tall girls and told me I would hate it out there plus with the cold lol. 

Maybe when they grow up drinking milk, they just take it straight from the teat? 

13 minutes ago, Agent23 said:

Maybe when they grow up drinking milk, they just take it straight from the teat? 

I'm pretty sure that isn't a teat those mouthbreathers are sucking on.

37 minutes ago, Agent23 said:

Maybe when they grow up drinking milk, they just take it straight from the teat? 

Midwestern corn fed boobies

13 hours ago, IFB DOG said:

Pics?

Ask and you shall receive.