As others have said stats only tell part of the story. You've got to watch guys and see what they are doing and what they are about. 

And yes scheme fit plays a big role. But also personnel does too. If you don't have a very good OL then you probably want a mobile QB who can run around. If you have really good WRs then you probably want a guy who can consistently get the ball to those receivers. Some schemes are predicated on the quick short passes whereas others are based on being more explosive. For those different schemes you look for different qualities.

Ultimately why is Hurts the starter for the Eagles? Because he's flashed, he's young and on a second round rookie contract and the Eagles really didn't have any other choice. 

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

the Eagles really didn't have any other choice. 

Well they clearly had a choice, but like you said they probably made the "safest" choice that made the most sense money-wise. 

I'm just peeved that Hurts is the de-facto starter though. IMHO he hasn't earned it. He was terrible in the playoff game. And we only got into the playoffs because the coach decided to focus on the running game and not have to rely on Hurts winning games. IMHO Siriani deserved credit for that and not Hurts.

 

24 minutes ago, opa-opa said:

Well they clearly had a choice, but like you said they probably made the "safest" choice that made the most sense money-wise. 

I'm just peeved that Hurts is the de-facto starter though. IMHO he hasn't earned it. He was terrible in the playoff game. And we only got into the playoffs because the coach decided to focus on the running game and not have to rely on Hurts winning games. IMHO Siriani deserved credit for that and not Hurts.

 

Did they have a choice? I'm not sure they did. Not when all factors are considered.

He's the starter because he's perhaps the best option they have. That doesn't mean he's a stud and look there's an argument for Minshew but I think Hurts probably offers more overall.

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Did they have a choice? I'm not sure they did. Not when all factors are considered.

He's the starter because he's perhaps the best option they have. That doesn't mean he's a stud and look there's an argument for Minshew but I think Hurts probably offers more overall.

How does he offer more when he is one of, if not the worst passing quarterback in the league right now? And so far in practice he has shown not much has changed?

3 hours ago, opa-opa said:

Well they clearly had a choice, but like you said they probably made the "safest" choice that made the most sense money-wise. 

I'm just peeved that Hurts is the de-facto starter though. IMHO he hasn't earned it. He was terrible in the playoff game. And we only got into the playoffs because the NFL created a fake id for us to get in

 

Fixed

8 hours ago, jsb235 said:

Why would i come back? You have incorrectly changed the basic math involved in your statistical analysis for a third time. I tried to help you, but you are clearly not getting this numbers thing. 

Then I'll use pro football reference and compare since you don't like my numbers, but the results are the same 

Minshew more touchdowns and yards per game. So nothing has changed. Minshew still a better passer and more than adequate on the ground. 

The worst part of my argument is I don't believe Minshew is any kind of long term answer, it just proves how much Hurts is NOT 

On 7/31/2022 at 11:33 PM, The Blackfish said:

 I’m not sure it’s a lame reason when the GM/Owner tells the coach who’s starting. Hurts is more athletic, Minshew is probably a better passer given equal reps but not by that much. 
 It would probably be better if there was a true competition for this teams starting QB, but again, when your boss tells you who the starter is, there isn’t much Siriani can do but go out and try to win as many games as possible no matter who the QB is.  

Minshew is a better passer by a pretty wide margin. 

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

The worst part of my argument is I don't believe Minshew is any kind of long term answer, it just proves how much Hurts is NOT 

This I agree with. I think Minshew is the better QB, but don't believe he's a franchise guy either. The long-term answer at QB isn't on the roster yet. 

19 hours ago, opa-opa said:

I guess i just want Siriani to give an honest sensible answer as to why Minshew is not the starter and Hurts is. What is the reasoning. And what evidence and stats does he have to back that up. We could be potentially wasting Kelce and BGs last year on an experiment.

Btw i would not be feeling this way if they didnt sign AJ and Kyzir and all these other great FAs. Plus the great draft we just had this might be as good a roster as it gets for a while. I believe with this roster a Garropolo or even Minshew can take us deep in the playoffs. With Hurts? I dont even know if we make the playoffs.

Anyway, if by midway thru the season we are not in playoff contention due to Hurts, i sure hope the Eagles fans raise hell and demand a change.

I think the most obvious answer you'll find is that Sirianni and the eagles FO think that Hurts has a potentially big upside.  Hurts has shown that he can handle the mental ups and downs of the game, he is respected by the players around him, and he has good leadership skills.  He obviously can run the ball, but will have to continue to improve as a passer.

I like Minshew too.  But the NFL is enamored with dual threat QBs, although history has proven that pocket passers win super bowls.....not some SBs, all.  Garropolo is overrated in my opinion and I wouldn't bother with him.  From what I've seen from Hurts all last year, he has the ability to improve with this being his 3rd year and 2nd year in this offense.  If he doesn't improve his progressions, decision making and anticipation, it's going to be obvious throughout the first few games........if he becomes a 2 look and run QB, he'll be wasting the talent around him.  

He's made the playoffs already.......and this team is more talented.  But they won't win in the playoffs with a predominately running QB.....He has to be effective as a passer.  I think he can be.

I think the perfect QB for Hurts to emulate would be Russell Wilson.  Pocket guy with great movement......scrambles and always keeps his eyes downfield. Will take off when nothing is open downfield, takes what the defense gives him and gets on the ground before anybody gets near him.

I still cant figure out how to determine if a guy is a "franchise" QB or "long term answer".  

Draft position assumes a guy will be but should it?.......then you have those who think the "eye test" is the standard (LMAO).  How do you know if a guy is or isn't a "long term answer"?

What does a "franchise" QB do in his first year or two?  What's he built like? Is he supposed to be a great athlete, or have a cannon for an arm?  Do injuries negate a guy from being a "franchise" QB?  

The fact is that there are certain needed characteristics for a QB, but it's more about how a franchise evaluates and develops a QB.  That's why so many teams have drafted a QB high, and yet go thru them like sh-- thru a goose.

Once a guy is discarded then he never gets a real chance at being another team's long term QB.....they immediately will draft another project.

The problem is that so many high drafted QBs go into terrible situations and are expected to carry a lousy team out of the sh-- pile.  They make loads of mistakes which bad teams cannot overcome, and get blamed for being a bust.  And/or they go to a team that has a coach on the hot seat and gets fired after the QBs first year and then the kid has to learn another system or the incoming coach wants "his guy" and they draft a kid, sign a FA or trade for him.

QBs depend more on confidence than any other player or position. They have to immediately handle immense scrutiny and criticism.  Not to mention the pressure they put on themselves and the relationship with the coaches.  Usually they enjoyed being the star in college and the jump to the pros can be overwhelming.  I'm not trying to drum up sympathy for these guys, just trying to decipher why some guys make it but most guys do not.

I think the NFL, in it's thirst win now mentality, chews up QBs, moves on to the next project and then declares they have a QB problem.  I think an NFL team should always plan to have a HC and a young QB be together for 2-3 years before pulling the plug.  Sometimes a team gets lucky,......most don't 

 

Sam Bradford had a great completion percentage!

19 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

I still cant figure out how to determine if a guy is a "franchise" QB or "long term answer".  

Draft position assumes a guy will be but should it?.......then you have those who think the "eye test" is the standard (LMAO).  How do you know if a guy is or isn't a "long term answer"?

What does a "franchise" QB do in his first year or two?  What's he built like? Is he supposed to be a great athlete, or have a cannon for an arm?  Do injuries negate a guy from being a "franchise" QB?  

The fact is that there are certain needed characteristics for a QB, but it's more about how a franchise evaluates and develops a QB.  That's why so many teams have drafted a QB high, and yet go thru them like sh-- thru a goose.

Once a guy is discarded then he never gets a real chance at being another team's long term QB.....they immediately will draft another project.

The problem is that so many high drafted QBs go into terrible situations and are expected to carry a lousy team out of the sh-- pile.  They make loads of mistakes which bad teams cannot overcome, and get blamed for being a bust.  And/or they go to a team that has a coach on the hot seat and gets fired after the QBs first year and then the kid has to learn another system or the incoming coach wants "his guy" and they draft a kid, sign a FA or trade for him.

QBs depend more on confidence than any other player or position. They have to immediately handle immense scrutiny and criticism.  Not to mention the pressure they put on themselves and the relationship with the coaches.  Usually they enjoyed being the star in college and the jump to the pros can be overwhelming.  I'm not trying to drum up sympathy for these guys, just trying to decipher why some guys make it but most guys do not.

I think the NFL, in it's thirst win now mentality, chews up QBs, moves on to the next project and then declares they have a QB problem.  I think an NFL team should always plan to have a HC and a young QB be together for 2-3 years before pulling the plug.  Sometimes a team gets lucky,......most don't 

 

But Hurts wasnt drafted to be a franchise QB. He is a backup QB drafted too high and now this org wants to polish him into a franchise QB. Where this confidence in Hurts being able to do that comes from, i dunno. Sure he has shown flashes here and there but he hasnt shown he can do it consistently. Yet.

4 minutes ago, opa-opa said:

Where this confidence in Hurts being able to do that comes from, i dunno.

SWAG and work ethic

1 hour ago, opa-opa said:

But Hurts wasnt drafted to be a franchise QB. He is a backup QB drafted too high and now this org wants to polish him into a franchise QB. Where this confidence in Hurts being able to do that comes from, i dunno. Sure he has shown flashes here and there but he hasnt shown he can do it consistently. Yet.

Teams don't draft backup QBs in the 2nd round.  They drafted him to be a project, and it became an issue between Wentz, Pedersen and Howie. When that season went completely south, Hurts was put in and then the eagles traded Wentz and Hurts was going to back up Flacco until he was traded and they had no choice.......it was a clusterf--- that the home office created and it put Hurts in a spot he wasn't ready for, but he progressed.

Few young QBs are consistent.......I could give you a list of QBs that were high picks and none of them were consistent.....it's one of the hardest things a young QB has to achieve.

That's why this year is so important for Hurts.  And if he fails, the eagles have the ammo to get a QB high in the draft.

2 hours ago, birdman#12 said:

Teams don't draft backup QBs in the 2nd round.  They drafted him to be a project, and it became an issue between Wentz, Pedersen and Howie. When that season went completely south, Hurts was put in and then the eagles traded Wentz and Hurts was going to back up Flacco until he was traded and they had no choice.......it was a clusterf--- that the home office created and it put Hurts in a spot he wasn't ready for, but he progressed.

Few young QBs are consistent.......I could give you a list of QBs that were high picks and none of them were consistent.....it's one of the hardest things a young QB has to achieve.

That's why this year is so important for Hurts.  And if he fails, the eagles have the ammo to get a QB high in the draft.

Spending a second round pick on a "project" makes even less sense.

Anyway we all know Lurie wanted Hurts. We will all have to live with the long term consequences of his meddling.

3 hours ago, birdman#12 said:

Hurts was put in and then the eagles traded Wentz and Hurts was going to back up Flacco until he was traded and they had no choice.

Flacco was still on the team when the season began. Flacco wasn't traded till October 25th. 

34 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Jesus, you’re as sharp as a spoon.  

... and you're a lazy troll with limited comprehension skills ...

 

... Since we are sharing.

22 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

How does he offer more when he is one of, if not the worst passing quarterback in the league right now? And so far in practice he has shown not much has changed?

Because they don't have great options and he offers plays with his legs.

48 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Because they don't have great options and he offers plays with his legs.

I agree on not having great options, but picking the worst passer on the team to play QB is a bad idea. It doesn't matter how much talent you surround a bad passer with, he isn't going to be able to take advantage of it. He's taking off and running on 7v7s right now....he hasn't learned crap 

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

I agree on not having great options, but picking the worst passer on the team to play QB is a bad idea. It doesn't matter how much talent you surround a bad passer with, he isn't going to be able to take advantage of it. He's taking off and running on 7v7s right now....he hasn't learned crap 

I mean look... There's an argument that Minshew is a better passer but I'm not sure he's that far ahead of Hurts. And Hurts offers more than most QBs in the league with his legs. 

2 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

I agree on not having great options, but picking the worst passer on the team to play QB is a bad idea. It doesn't matter how much talent you surround a bad passer with, he isn't going to be able to take advantage of it. He's taking off and running on 7v7s right now....he hasn't learned crap 

In Hurts' case, the main decision point was that he is CHEAP, was a WASTED HIGH PICK, and that helped when carrying the dead money from Wentz after HOWIE SCREWED THAT UP.  In addition, he gets extra points with little kids and fanbois for SWAG and EXCITEMENT as he runs around in circles before over/under throwing receivers.   Plus, for extra credit, he's a GARBAGE TIME STAT MACHINE for FFL players.  It is NOT because he is good enough or better than Minshew.

30 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean look... There's an argument that Minshew is a better passer but I'm not sure he's that far ahead of Hurts. And Hurts offers more than most QBs in the league with his legs. 

I'm not posting the stats again, but he is significantly better in the air  than hurts and has half the rushing yards as hurts to boot. You can look back and see where I've smoked people over and over with this argument. 

6 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

In Hurts' case, the main decision point was that he is CHEAP and that helped when carrying the dead money from Wentz after HOWIE SCREWED THAT UP.  In addition, he gets extra points with little kids and fanbois for SWAG and EXCITEMENT as he runs around in circles before over/under throwing receivers.   Plus, for extra credit, he's a GARBAGE TIME STAT MACHINE for FFL players.  

So he's pretty much Madden entertainment until we find someone to help us win a championship instead of getting dragged into the playoffs with a bad schedule and running game. Got it 

6 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

So he's pretty much Madden entertainment until we find someone to help us win a championship instead of getting dragged into the playoffs with a bad schedule and running game. Got it 

He definitely gets extra points for entertainment value.  You can see it around here every week.   If he runs 3 circles, hurdles someone on the ground, drifts, drifts, and drifts right before he throws it off balance over the head of his receiver, some on here just love the "Man, did you see what Hurts did in escaping that rush?  Almost made a play there that no one else could."  To anyone really watching, it was another impatient and incomplete pass.  So I agree that he is a marketing ploy until we take another shot at a franchise QB.