Why do NFL teams not choose their starting QBs simply based on stats?

[Shalodeep]

1 minute ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

He definitely gets extra points for entertainment value.  You can see it around here every week.   If he runs 3 circles, hurdles someone on the ground, drifts, drifts, and drifts right before he throws it off balance over the head of his receiver, some on here just love the "Man, did you see what Hurts did in escaping that rush?  Almost made a play there that no one else could."  To anyone really watching, it was another impatient and incomplete pass.  So I agree that he is a marketing ploy until we take another shot at a franchise QB.

That's frustrating. Id rather take the Alex Smith clone behind him to hold the forte down until we have a shot at our Mahomes. Don't know if we have the coaches to do anything with a great raw QB, but if Hurts is any indicator....

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

1 minute ago, Shalodeep said:

That's frustrating. Id rather take the Alex Smith clone behind him to hold the forte down until we have a shot at our Mahomes. Don't know if we have the coaches to do anything with a great raw QB, but if Hurts is any indicator....

Agree.  Hurts isn't the typical great, raw QB though.  He is a project that was overdrafted by Howie and forced into action by Howie to justify the pick.  Generally, he lacked sufficient talent in most categories coming out ( just read the scouting reports), where as most rookies have a few very good traits.  "Work hard" is a normal thing for NFL talents, so I'd argue that he isn't special there either and swag accounts for nothing. The question with him really is whether or not the FO can throw enough talent around him to make up for that mass of issues.  I truly think the Eagles saw 2021 and 2022 as throwaway years tied to clearing out cap space when they started this experiment.  Whether he survives really isn't clear.

[Shalodeep]

Just now, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Agree.  Hurts isn't the typical great, raw QB though.  He is a project that was overdrafted by Howie and forced into action by Howie to justify the pick.  Generally, he lacked sufficient talent in most categories coming out ( just read the scouting reports), where as most rookies have a few very good traits.  "Work hard" is a normal thing for NFL talents, so I'd argue that he isn't special there either and swag accounts for nothing. The question with him really is whether or not the FO can throw enough talent around him to make up for that mass of issues.  I truly think the Eagles saw 2021 and 2022 as throwaway years tied to clearing out cap space when they started this experiment.  Whether he survives really isn't clear.

I fully expect him to play out this year and we draft someone next year and hurts becomes tradable tl the first team with an injured qb

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

I fully expect him to play out this year and we draft someone next year and hurts becomes tradable tl the first team with an injured qb

We should all hope that's how it plays out.

[Shalodeep]

1 minute ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

We should all hope that's how it plays out.

Howie for some reasons finds ways to walk out the ish pile he created smelling like roses.

[MF POON]

8 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

We should all hope that's how it plays out.

Why should we hope that a player doesn't improve and have success?  

I wasn't much of a Wentz fan the last 2 seasons he was here, but I still hoped for him to improve,  and have success.

[Shalodeep]

27 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Why should we hope that a player doesn't improve and have success?  

I wasn't much of a Wentz fan the last 2 seasons he was here, but I still hoped for him to improve,  and have success.

I'm thinking he meant if he continues to play the way he has and it seems that's just who he is as a player. Not wishing him stunted development, just expecting it 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

51 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Why should we hope that a player doesn't improve and have success?  

I wasn't much of a Wentz fan the last 2 seasons he was here, but I still hoped for him to improve,  and have success.

I hope he improves and has success, but we don't have forever to see it.  His body of work shows a low ceiling.  If we want to succeed on a sustained level, it will take alot more than he has ever shown.  Swag and "try hard" isn't enough.

[birdman#12]

15 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Flacco was still on the team when the season began. Flacco wasn't traded till October 25th. 

I stand corrected.......when Flacco was signed there was some speculation he would start until Hurts was ready, but that changed quickly. 

[EazyEaglez]

On 7/31/2022 at 3:00 PM, opa-opa said:

Yes it doesn't tell the whole story but Kirk Cousins is obviously a starting caliber QB. He has earned that right with his stats. Most NFL teams should be glad to have him as a starting QB. 

I'm just wondering why teams don't simply just get the best available passer out there to start for them. Heck I don't understand why Nick Foles isn't our QB right now. I want to see him throw to AJ and Devonta. 

Heck, why don't we just get someone like Garropolo. He can't be worse than Hurts. I'm just so goddamn sick of the illogical nature of the NFL. Why not just get the BEST guy who can give you the BEST chance to win the Superbowl RIGHT NOW. Why do we need to put up with mediocrity because "he's our guy" or some lame reason?

Stats really isn’t what makes Nick Foles a starter. Frankly his stats have been putrid in other places at times and it’s cost him his job there. There are many intangibles that go into quarterback play. Some guys are gamers and some guys fold when you need them the most. If a guy can fill the stats sheet in the regular season, but can’t win a playoff game what good is he? 

[MF POON]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Stats really isn’t what makes Nick Foles a starter. Frankly his stats have been putrid in other places at times and it’s cost him his job there. There are many intangibles that go into quarterback play. Some guys are gamers and some guys fold when you need them the most. If a guy can fill the stats sheet in the regular season, but can’t win a playoff game what good is he? 

True.  I think he would've been a solid starter had he gone to a team that just needed a good QB. Jax gutted their team by the time he got there, and STL/CHI were awful at the time too. But I agree, basing your starter on stats alone isn't the way to do it .

[MF POON]

On 8/2/2022 at 11:47 AM, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I hope he improves and has success, but we don't have forever to see it.  His body of work shows a low ceiling.  If we want to succeed on a sustained level, it will take alot more than he has ever shown.  Swag and "try hard" isn't enough.

He's only had 1 season as a starter, let's just see how it plays out this year. 

[Shalodeep]

24 minutes ago, MF POON said:

He's only had 1 season as a starter, let's just see how it plays out this year. 

We don't have a choice . Hopefully he learns how to throw the deep ball, and the intermediate, and past five yards, and to throw to the left, and not to take off after the first read, and to use the middle of the field, and not to call his own number 33% or the plays, and remains healthy. 

[MF POON]

29 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

We don't have a choice . Hopefully he learns how to throw the deep ball, and the intermediate, and past five yards, and to throw to the left, and not to take off after the first read, and to use the middle of the field, and not to call his own number 33% or the plays, and remains healthy. 

I was mainly focusing on the "we don't have forever to see it" part. We've only seen it for a season (and a few games he was thrown into as a true rookie). It's not like we've been watching him for 3-5 seasons struggle with the same issues. 

[Shalodeep]

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I was mainly focusing on the "we don't have forever to see it" part. We've only seen it for a season (and a few games he was thrown into as a true rookie). It's not like we've been watching him for 3-5 seasons struggle with the same issues. 

The issue is he struggled with the same things with cast of first round receivers in college. I'm hoping I'm wrong and he breaks every record in Philly and he makes his money. Just hope he turns it around before we do

[MF POON]

45 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

The issue is he struggled with the same things with cast of first round receivers in college. I'm hoping I'm wrong and he breaks every record in Philly and he makes his money. Just hope he turns it around before we do

That's most college QB's though. It's rare when a QB comes in and is truly NFL ready, even many #1 picks struggle in their first year. 

[Shalodeep]

Just now, MF POON said:

That's most college QB's though. It's rare when a QB comes in and is truly NFL ready, even many #1 picks struggle in their first year. 

He's going into his third year and only got marginally better 1 to 2. When asked about changing rolling right, he took no responsibility saying he's just running the plays called. when asked about changing his throwing motion, he scoffed at the idea. He has an unchanging arrogance that scares me

[MF POON]

10 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

He's going into his third year and only got marginally better 1 to 2. When asked about changing rolling right, he took no responsibility saying he's just running the plays called. when asked about changing his throwing motion, he scoffed at the idea. He has an unchanging arrogance that scares me

I fail to see how anything I said was incorrect. He's only played for 1 entire season and like 4 or so games in his rookie year.   

[Shalodeep]

4 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I fail to see how anything I said was incorrect. He's only played for 1 entire season and like 4 or so games in his rookie year.   

Best college coaches followed by a super bowl coach. He's been coached up. He's proving he hadn't learned from them or under pressure doesn't use what he was taught

[NJWolverEagle11]

1 hour ago, Shalodeep said:

The issue is he struggled with the same things with cast of first round receivers in college. I'm hoping I'm wrong and he breaks every record in Philly and he makes his money. Just hope he turns it around before we do

Don't forget the 1st/2nd rd linemen blocking for him 

[Shalodeep]

Just now, NJWolverEagle11 said:

Don't forget the 1st/2nd rd linemen blocking for him 

Pretty much had a NFL team and got benched 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, MF POON said:

He's only had 1 season as a starter, let's just see how it plays out this year. 

Damn!  I forgot that he has only played one year of big time football. Alabama and OU likely don't agree.  Doug Pederson may not agree either.

We'll get to see this year, but it won't change that he has a low ceiling and incremental change for him at that position isn't going to get us anywhere. I understand that you see this as his 3rd rookie year, but I'd disagree.  He's had plenty of time and training to develop core QB skills.

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, MF POON said:

I was mainly focusing on the "we don't have forever to see it" part. We've only seen it for a season (and a few games he was thrown into as a true rookie). It's not like we've been watching him for 3-5 seasons struggle with the same issues. 

I don’t think it’s realistic for anyone to think Hurts will suddenly go from using his legs as part of his arsenal to never using them at all. The only guy I know that’s done that is McNabb. Yes Josh Allen has become a much better passer lately, but he’s also rushed for more yards and more times last year than he did in previous seasons as well. They want to act like running isn’t a part of his game when in reality it’s a major part of it. 

[Shalodeep]

7 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t think it’s realistic for anyone to think Hurts will suddenly go from using his legs as part of his arsenal to never using them at all. The only guy I know that’s done that is McNabb. Yes Josh Allen has become a much better passer lately, but he’s also rushed for more yards and more times last year than he did in previous seasons as well. They want to act like running isn’t a part of his game when in reality it’s a major part of it. 

I agree with all of this. If Jalen has like four carries a game that leads to three first downs, nobody would should have anything to say. It's the spins and ghost pressures that people complain about. I want to see him use the pocket instead of escaping. Can't see that til week 1

[ManchesterEagle]

2 hours ago, MF POON said:

That's most college QB's though. It's rare when a QB comes in and is truly NFL ready, even many #1 picks struggle in their first year. 

 

45 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t think it’s realistic for anyone to think Hurts will suddenly go from using his legs as part of his arsenal to never using them at all. The only guy I know that’s done that is McNabb. Yes Josh Allen has become a much better passer lately, but he’s also rushed for more yards and more times last year than he did in previous seasons as well. They want to act like running isn’t a part of his game when in reality it’s a major part of it. 

Fact is that Hurts was always viewed as a developmental QB. He did okay last year and at times showed some real growth. He sucked in the playoff game and that has led to a bunch of smug Wentz lovers/Hurts haters ruling the board over the past 6 months. 

Various people are or were claiming that the Eagles would be better off with Minshew or Strong. That thread has gone very quiet now as it’s become pretty clear from pretty much every reporter that Hurts is throwing the ball much better than either of them. And making the throws that certain people are claiming he can’t make.

Don’t get me wrong, he has a lot to prove and I’m still not convinced he’s the guy going forward. He needs to take a fairly substantial leap this year. But he is a much better QB than a lot of the board give him credit for. He has a chance.

He has a good opportunity in what should be a loaded team. Just a shame more people can’t get behind him.