Transplant surgeons causing brain death to harvest organs

[The_Omega]

Is this OK?  Let's decide this for society right here.

Quote

 

With little attention or debate, transplant surgeons across the country are experimenting with a kind of partial resurrection: They’re allowing terminal patients to die, then restarting their hearts while clamping off blood flow to their brains. The procedure allows the surgeons to inspect and remove organs from warm bodies with heartbeats.

Transplant surgeons and several bioethicists argue that the procedure is appropriate and crucial to boosting the number of organs that are available for transplant. But critics — including other bioethicists and the nation’s second-largest physician organization — warn that surgeons are trampling the line between life and death…

The American College of Physicians (ACP), which represents primary care doctors, is also a critic. It warned in a 2021 statement that the procedure raises "profound ethical questions regarding determination of death, respect for patients, and the ethical obligation to do what is best.”

Proponents, however, are eagerly moving ahead with the procedures, known as normothermic regional perfusion with controlled donation after circulatory death (NRP-cDCD). Three hospitals in Nebraska, Arizona, and New York are currently investigating the procedure in clinical trials. Several others have adopted it too, Amy Fiedler, MD, a cardiac and transplant surgeon at the University of California San Francisco, told MedPage Today.

"It’s expanding rapidly,” said Fiedler, who has performed several of the procedures. "Every time I talk to colleagues, they want to talk about how to build an NRP program and get it started.”

 

 

[Tnt4philly]

I am an organ donor and couldn’t care less what they do with my body when I’m dead. 

[we_gotta_believe]

An uncited piece that leaves out crucial context like whether the patient had filed a DNR or consented to organ donation. Solid way to kick off discussions as usual, Sarah.

[Tnt4philly]

6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

An uncited piece that leaves out crucial context like whether the patient had filed a DNR or consented to organ donation. Solid way to kick off discussions as usual, Sarah.

That’s what happens when you choose feelings over facts. 

[The_Omega]

 Good lord you all are among the most miserable people on earth.  I posted a discussion piece and you all immediately attack me personally.  F'ing incels  

[The_Omega]

14 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

I am an organ donor and couldn’t care less what they do with my body when I’m dead. 

Except, by definition, they're doing it to people who aren't "dead" yet.  If they can restart the heart and the brain still has function, you're not dead.  You're ok with them killing you then?

[mr_hunt]

hey! i had sexx like a week ago!     

[mr_hunt]

back on topic...are they doing this with or without the person's permission?  

[we_gotta_believe]

Just now, mr_hunt said:

back on topic...are they doing this with or without the person's permission?  

Obviously you didn't read the article that Sarah linked to.

[The_Omega]

4 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

hey! i had sexx like a week ago!     

You hadn't attacked me.  Yet.

[Alpha_TATEr]

4 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

hey! i had sexx like a week ago!     

your hand soaked in whiskey for an hour doesn't count, jerky.

[The_Omega]

2 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

back on topic...are they doing this with or without the person's permission?  

I'm sure the patient gave permission to harvest the organs when they're dead.  I have.  According to the article, which the surgeons don't dispute, they're causing the death, not waiting for it.

[mr_hunt]

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Obviously you didn't read the article that Sarah linked to.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/are-transplant-doctors-causing-brain-death/

 

 

[The_Omega]

1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/are-transplant-doctors-causing-brain-death/

 

 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/100950

[mr_hunt]

8 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

your hand soaked in whiskey for an hour doesn't count, jerky.

what if you're wearing a lamb chop puppet on your hand?

 

asking for a friend. 

 

[Toastrel]

I'm fine with brain dead corpses having their heart restarted to keep the organs alive.

A human body would be the ideal place. What is the problem?

[The_Omega]

4 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

I'm fine with brain dead corpses having their heart restarted to keep the organs alive.

A human body would be the ideal place. What is the problem?

If the brain was dead, they wouldn't need to clamp of the blood flow to it to kill it.

Quote

then restarting their hearts while clamping off blood flow to their brains.

 

[we_gotta_believe]

26 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/100950

Doesn't mention if the terminal patients have filed DNRs, but presuming they do, and have also consented to organ donation, then I guess it boils down to the distinction being made between resuscitating and restarting. Not sure what exactly the difference is, but if the patient is terminal anyways, then it seems to still align with their last wishes regardless.

 

The purpose of the procedure is crucial, lead author and NYU bioethicist Brendan Parent, JD, told MedPage Today. "We are perfusing the heart again, we are not resuscitating the heart. That's a critical language distinction. Any time a heart has stopped, technology has made it possible to restart it at least a little bit. So we cannot hang the definition of death on whether it's restartable. Instead, we need to ask, why are we restarting the heart?"

 

[Tnt4philly]

32 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

 Good lord you all are among the most miserable people on earth.  I posted a discussion piece and you all immediately attack me personally.  F'ing incels  

Who is attacking you? The article is in question for being more emotion than fact.

[DEagle7]

As long as consent is obtained I'm fine with it. I'd be ok with them doing it to me.  Organ transplants are wildly chaotic currently and there's still a huge need so I get them trying anything to keep the organs healthy longer. 

[Tnt4philly]

19 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

If the brain was dead, they wouldn't need to clamp of the blood flow to it to kill it.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10798503/

"Persistent cerebral blood flow occasionally confounds confirmatory tests for brain death and results in the anguish of delayed diagnosis, unnecessary use of expensive resources, and loss of transplant opportunities.”
 

 

[Tnt4philly]

40 minutes ago, The_Omega said:

Except, by definition, they're doing it to people who aren't "dead" yet.  If they can restart the heart and the brain still has function, you're not dead.  You're ok with them killing you then?

These people are already brain dead, there is no brain function. 

[dawkins4prez]

I hope they harvest my D.  It's a magnificent piece and somebody else should enjoy it when I'm gone.

[we_gotta_believe]

2 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

I hope they harvest my D.  It's a magnificent piece and somebody else should enjoy it when I'm gone.

That's always how it starts, next thing you know it's on full display for all to admire as it does a few tours on the carousel in baggage claim.

[The_Omega]

34 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Who is attacking you? The article is in question for being more emotion than fact.

Unless they’ve clamped off the blood flow to your brain, you can answer your own question.