10 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I have no absolutely idea how you got that from what I wrote.  I said that they were a completely different technology from traditional vaccines which use dead virus, which is 100% true.   

I shouldn’t have cut this part out. 
 

"Vaccines 3 years ago were of a tried and true methodology,”

15 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

Anti Vaxxers... or people who werent allowed out of the house to get Vaccines because of the goverments extreme overreach?

If you are wearing an ankle monitor and are on house arrest, that is on you.

17 hours ago, Tnt4philly said:

I shouldn’t have cut this part out. 
 

"Vaccines 3 years ago were of a tried and true methodology,”

They were.  How is that even in question?

17 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I literally posted a link that shows otherwise. Parents are forging traditional vaccines too. See if you can rack your brain and figure out why. Take as much time as you need.

I already did...

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/18/kids-are-behind-on-routine-immunizations-covid-vaccine-hesitancy-isnt-helping-00025503

Ah, sorry...I missed this the first time around.  I get the vaccine hesitancy to some extent around MRNA...but connecting it to traditional vaccines for far more serious diseases is insanity.  It will be interesting to see if this trend continues. 

4 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Ah, sorry...I missed this the first time around.  I get the vaccine hesitancy to some extent around MRNA...but connecting it to traditional vaccines for far more serious diseases is insanity.  It will be interesting to see if this trend continues. 

We mostly agree, but unfortunately insanity is becoming reality far too often as of late.

2 hours ago, The Norseman said:

Ah, sorry...I missed this the first time around.  I get the vaccine hesitancy to some extent around MRNA...but connecting it to traditional vaccines for far more serious diseases is insanity.  It will be interesting to see if this trend continues. 

Vaccine hesitancy was gaining ground with the shift in popularity of more homeopathic and natural remedies over recent decade(s). I don’t have any specific studies to refer to except for my own experience and anecdotal evidence that I’ve witnessed in which a much larger percentage of our friends that have had kids in the last 10-15 years have either followed non-traditional vaccine schedules or have avoided some or all vaccines altogether. Personally, I believe a large driving force behind this shift was the studies that were published showing links between certain vaccines (MMR) and rising rates of autism. Despite those studies being proven false, the fear remains and they continue to be cited. 

38 minutes ago, Imp81318 said:

Vaccine hesitancy was gaining ground with the shift in popularity of more homeopathic and natural remedies over recent decade(s). I don’t have any specific studies to refer to except for my own experience and anecdotal evidence that I’ve witnessed in which a much larger percentage of our friends that have had kids in the last 10-15 years have either followed non-traditional vaccine schedules or have avoided some or all vaccines altogether. Personally, I believe a large driving force behind this shift was the studies that were published showing links between certain vaccines (MMR) and rising rates of autism. Despite those studies being proven false, the fear remains and they continue to be cited. 

I agree with you, and I know at least one person prior to the pandemic who deemed herself a 'naturalist' and was all over social media talking about why you shouldn't vaccinate your kids for things like measles.  Once the Coivd vaccines came out she of course embraced her leftist roots and started lecturing everyone on the importance of getting yourself an your kids vaccinated for Covid.  The hard reversal (based souly on politics) made her a complete laughing stock. 

My only point in all of this is that I can't stand when people forego common sense and/or change their moral trajectory based upon the current political headwinds.  

On 11/18/2022 at 9:26 AM, The Norseman said:

aaaand, we're back to Trump.  So measles outbreaks are now also Trump's fault.  Got it. 

Not completely true, but not completely false either.  Trump never got vaccinated on camera like Biden did.  He set a poor example for his followers and they ran with it.

On 11/18/2022 at 7:37 AM, Toastrel said:

As measles outbreak sickens dozens of children in Ohio, local health officials seek help from CDC

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/health/measles-outbreak-columbus-ohio/index.html

Anti-vax idiots. Polio in NYC, measles in Ohio.

Maybe we can bring back whooping cough?

Most of these outbreaks happen in Amish or Immigrant communities. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0952791521000674

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/05/us/measles-minnesota-vaccines.html

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1602295

 

6 hours ago, The Norseman said:

They were.  How is that even in question?

I am not saying they were not, but the vaccines of today went  through the same methodology as vaccines did three years ago. Your statement insinuates that mRNA vaccine are unsafe and that simply is not true. They were tested as much as any other drug approved by the government. 

9 hours ago, Tnt4philly said:

 They were tested as much as any other drug approved by the government. 

Not very effective from what I seen. Reinfection within 3 weeks of a booster? 👍

The vaccine didn't manage stop contraction nor spreading.

The only thing they managed to do was wreck the global economy and child education with all of the hysteria. 

Now? "Mistakes were made".

18 hours ago, Tnt4philly said:

I am not saying they were not, but the vaccines of today went  through the same methodology as vaccines did three years ago. Your statement insinuates that mRNA vaccine are unsafe and that simply is not true. They were tested as much as any other drug approved by the government. 

I'm not insinuating anything, I was just pointing out the difference between traditional vaccines and MRNA..that are causing some people hesitancy.  I an double vaxed and boosted multiple times, so this isn't some stand I'm personally making against the new vaccines.  I don't dispute the testing standards of MRNA at all, but I do recognize that they are new, and we have no way of evaluating the long term effects they have as we would a traditional vaccine that has been in use for decades.  I don't expect that there will be any significant health issues from MRNA...but it's the unknown is what scares some people. 

It's too bad that the JNJ and Astra Zenaca vaccines never really took off.  I think some people would have been more comfortable with those over the long haul. 

 

21 hours ago, Dave Moss said:

Not completely true, but not completely false either.  Trump never got vaccinated on camera like Biden did.  He set a poor example for his followers and they ran with it.

I'm not going to sit here and defend Trump or the example that he set on 90% of things.  But suggesting that he is responsible for some random measles outbreak two years after he left office is just a bridge to far for me.  If we were talking about Covid vaccine hesitancy I would have kept my mouth shut...but this is measles for god's sake.

I read the Politico article about Coivd vaccine hesitancy spilling over into other things, but most of those adults resisting Coivd vaccines today would have been vaccinated for measles at birth.  I agree, that if true, generalized vaccine hesitancy is a disturbing trend, but I'm not sure I fully believe it.  It will be interesting to see what the CDC data release shows. 

16 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I'm not insinuating anything, I was just pointing out the difference between traditional vaccines and MRNA..that are causing some people hesitancy.  I an double vaxed and boosted multiple times, so this isn't some stand I'm personally making against the new vaccines.  I don't dispute the testing standards of MRNA at all, but I do recognize that they are new, and we have no way of evaluating the long term effects they have as we would a traditional vaccine that has been in use for decades.  I don't expect that there will be any significant health issues from MRNA...but it's the unknown is what scares some people. 

It's too bad that the JNJ and Astra Zenaca vaccines never really took off.  I think some people would have been more comfortable with those over the long haul. 

 

Those weren't "traditional" either. Same spike protein as the mrna vaccines just with a different delivery mechanism (viral vector using human or chimp adenovirus.)

We even have novavax approved now and uptake wasn't any better, which goes to show you that it's not about the vaccine platform at all.

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Those weren't "traditional" either. Same spike protein as the mrna vaccines just with a different delivery mechanism (viral vector using human or chimp adenovirus.)

We even have novavax approved now and uptake wasn't any better, which goes to show you that it's not about the vaccine platform at all.

Exactly.  Neither JnJ nor Astrazenaca were RNA vaccines.  They were both viral vector delivery just like MMR or influenza.  

I get your point that you still would have had the political crazies out there avoiding any Coivd vaccine, but I think when it comes to vaccinating children there is resistance on both sides to the MRNA versions in particular.  I would have been much more comfortable for example giving my kids a viral vector vaccine than the new RNA versions for example.  

You can call me crazy...but many parents I know feel exactly the same way.  The will give their kids flu shots but not MRNA. 

10 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Exactly.  Neither JnJ nor Astrazenaca were RNA vaccines.  They were both viral vector delivery just like MMR or influenza.  

I get your point that you still would have had the political crazies out there avoiding any Coivd vaccine, but I think when it comes to vaccinating children there is resistance on both sides to the MRNA versions in particular.  I would have been much more comfortable for example giving my kids a viral vector vaccine than the new RNA versions for example.  

You can call me crazy...but many parents I know feel exactly the same way.  The will give their kids flu shots but not MRNA. 

lol, no

Live attenuated virus is not a viral vector vaccine. MMR gives you a small weakened dose of the actual virus for each disease, that's not a vector, it's the actual virus itself. J&J is using a human adenovirus as sort of a Trojan horse to deliver the genetic instructions into your cells so that it begins to generate the spike protein (single epitope, not even the entire sequence, let alone the covid virus itself.)

Not that any of this matters because like I said, the issue was already a lost cause regardless of platform.

12 hours ago, lynched1 said:

Not very effective from what I seen. Reinfection within 3 weeks of a booster? 👍

The vaccine didn't manage stop contraction nor spreading.

The only thing they managed to do was wreck the global economy and child education with all of the hysteria. 

Now? "Mistakes were made".

Not 100% but the vaccines did help slow the spread. What’s your source this time? 

23 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Not 100% but the vaccines did help slow the spread. What’s your source this time? 

It's in the news. Multi vaxxed and boosted public officials going down within weeks of booster shots.

Can't hide from it. Just watch the news. 

The Eagles today remind me of vaxxers.

Had all of the answers and then got exposed. Ouch.

39 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

It's in the news. Multi vaxxed and boosted public officials going down within weeks of booster shots.

Can't hide from it. Just watch the news. 

So if something isn’t 100% effective then it doesn’t work at all? That’s not how it works. 

24 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

So if something isn’t 100% effective then it doesn’t work at all? That’s not how it works. 

You better check the records. It was promoted as the answer. The only answer.

What did the vaxxers chosen path get us?

They managed to delay the inevitable. That's it. Shot or no shot you can contract and spread.

The destroyed the development and learning curve of minors.

They are destroying the economy. See China and our continued reliance on a global supply chain.

Ibuprofen helps too but it's not going to protect you from arthritis.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/health/measles-outbreak-columbus-ohio/index.html

"Most of the cases of measles that we do see in the United States result from people who are coming to this country from other countries where the immunization rates are much less, followed by transmission to US residents who are not vaccinated," said Hirsch, a spokesperson for the Infectious Diseases Society of America. "So the possibility that someone carrying measles virus coming into the country could spread into an unvaccinated population is always there."

 

1 hour ago, iladelphxx said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/17/health/measles-outbreak-columbus-ohio/index.html

"Most of the cases of measles that we do see in the United States result from people who are coming to this country from other countries where the immunization rates are much less, followed by transmission to US residents who are not vaccinated," said Hirsch, a spokesperson for the Infectious Diseases Society of America. "So the possibility that someone carrying measles virus coming into the country could spread into an unvaccinated population is always there."

 

The lesson here? Vax your kids, you retarded POS's.

4 hours ago, lynched1 said:

You better check the records. It was promoted as the answer. The only answer.

What did the vaxxers chosen path get us?

They managed to delay the inevitable. That's it. Shot or no shot you can contract and spread.

Ibuprofen helps too but it's not going to protect you from arthritis.

I deleted the parts that are irrelevant to the vaccine being safe and fairly effective. 

I don’t recall being told vaccines were the only answer or that they  would be anywhere near 100% effective.
 

The fact that you would compare a pain reliever to a vaccine explains it all. 

3 hours ago, Tnt4philly said:

I don’t recall being told vaccines were the only answer or that they  would be anywhere near 100% effective

I know. 

I also know I was closer to the actual outcome once the dust settled.