7 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But they don't win the SB without him. So yeah OK maybe they've have ended up with a better player who would have been here for longer but they don't win the SB in 2017. Is that a trade off you're willing to make?

This is a thing about fantasy hypotheticals. It is like shoveling horse crap. How do you know that the Eagles do not win Super Bowl in 2017 without Wentz?? You have any proof? Team is not just a QB. We had a hell of the team, and coaching team in place. Super running game! We could have discovered another player by accident, who had never seen the light of day because of Wentz. But if someone asked me whether I would like to have Wentz on my fantasy team..No I would not. And yes I think we could have won without him. It is possible.

 

10 hours ago, gameshowfan91 said:

Do you think Eagles win Super Bowl without drafting Wentz?

Yes it is definitely possible.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas

looking back on the course if Eagles history, it's hard to want to change a thing, other than it would have been nice to have to wait 40+ years (for me as a fan) to win a Super Bowl. Some of the most magical plays in Eagles history probably wouldn't have happened if anything was different

2 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

This is a thing about fantasy hypotheticals. It is like shoveling horse crap. How do you know that the Eagles do not win Super Bowl in 2017 without Wentz?? You have any proof? Team is not just a QB. We had a hell of the team, and coaching team in place. Super running game! We could have discovered another player by accident, who had never seen the light of day because of Wentz. But if someone asked me whether I would like to have Wentz on my fantasy team..No I would not. And yes I think we could have won without him. It is possible.

 

Yes it is definitely possible.

Put Dak Prescott on that 2017 Eagles team, do you think Eagles win Super Bowl with him as QB?

They had discovered a player by accident (so far): Jalen Hurts, because of Wentz's injury history and Wentz sucking in 2020 and wanting out of Eagles.

2 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

This is a thing about fantasy hypotheticals. It is like shoveling horse crap. How do you know that the Eagles do not win Super Bowl in 2017 without Wentz?? You have any proof? Team is not just a QB. We had a hell of the team, and coaching team in place. Super running game! We could have discovered another player by accident, who had never seen the light of day because of Wentz. But if someone asked me whether I would like to have Wentz on my fantasy team..No I would not. And yes I think we could have won without him. It is possible.

 

Yes it is definitely possible.

You were doing fine with those first two sentences. The rest is, as you say, shoveling horse crap.

3 minutes ago, gameshowfan91 said:

Put Dak Prescott on that 2017 Eagles team, do you think Eagles win Super Bowl with him as QB?

They had discovered a player by accident (so far): Jalen Hurts, because of Wentz's injury history and Wentz sucking in 2020 and wanting out of Eagles.

Dak is a crap QB. He feasts on mismatches and that's it. You want 5 TDs vs backups? He is your guy.

You want Amari Cooper on the UPS guy due to injuries? He's your guy.

You want a play action QB when your team runs for 160+? He's your guy.

Matt Flynn could do all that too.

 

The Falcons beat the Eagles with Dak at QB. Dak trying to throw into the wind? 😀

Nothing in his career has ever said playoff quality QB. 

Foles won that SB by playing like Joe Montana. Dak can't do that when it counts.

 

If I could change one Eagles pick it would be Witten over LJ Smith.

They win the 2004 SB fairly easy with that change and have a hell of a shot in 2008 as well.

58 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Dak is a crap QB. He feasts on mismatches and that's it. You want 5 TDs vs backups? He is your guy.

You want Amari Cooper on the UPS guy due to injuries? He's your guy.

You want a play action QB when your team runs for 160+? He's your guy.

Matt Flynn could do all that too.

 

The Falcons beat the Eagles with Dak at QB. Dak trying to throw into the wind? 😀

Nothing in his career has ever said playoff quality QB. 

Foles won that SB by playing like Joe Montana. Dak can't do that when it counts.

 

If you were to into Mark Holmes live streams and say something like that, he may get mad and you may get timed out. He apparently think Dak is a top 5 QB. One time, someone said Cowboys would be better with Rodgers, he threw down his headphones and went off. Mark Holmes even done rant videos towards 'Dak haters.' He blames coaching for Dak's shortcomings.

20 minutes ago, gameshowfan91 said:

If you were to into Mark Holmes live streams and say something like that, he may get mad and you may get timed out. He apparently think Dak is a top 5 QB. One time, someone said Cowboys would be better with Rodgers, he threw down his headphones and went off. Mark Holmes even done rant videos towards 'Dak haters.' He blames coaching for Dak's shortcomings.

Its clearly and obviously provable that Dak is a 2nd tier if not 3rd tier QB.

Last year he was a schmoe until he got a Covid game vs DC and a game vs Philly's backups.

Since 2017 his record is 19-1 vs DC and NY and 25-30 in all other games.

2017-now or 2019-now Kirk Cousins has better numbers. No one thinks Cousins is a top 5 QB.

Dak needs 120+ team rushing yards to have a chance at winning games. 140 to shine.

Last 2 Seasons Cooper Rush is 3-0 when Dallas does not run for 100 yards. Dak is 0-6

Foles was 2-5 with the 2020 Bears when they did not run for 100 (often not for 60) and he was benched.

 

4 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

This is a thing about fantasy hypotheticals. It is like shoveling horse crap. How do you know that the Eagles do not win Super Bowl in 2017 without Wentz?? You have any proof? Team is not just a QB. We had a hell of the team, and coaching team in place. Super running game! We could have discovered another player by accident, who had never seen the light of day because of Wentz. But if someone asked me whether I would like to have Wentz on my fantasy team..No I would not. And yes I think we could have won without him. It is possible.

 

Yes it is definitely possible.

These have to be the dumbest posts ever. I'm serious. No one knows we don't win the Super Bowl without Wentz. I posted that we don't but it's understood as a belief and safe assumption. I don't have a crystal ball - you have to be pretty dense to think anyone thinks they know something unknowable. But that is the whole point - we don't know what we don't know - WE DO KNOW that in 2017 Wentz was having a consensus League MVP type season which was instrumental in the Eagles getting to the Super Bowl. To say after the fact that we don't draft Wentz is just a stupid statement. We won the Super Bowl, but yeah, lets give it back and roll the dice.

However, I do agree with (knowing what we know now) trading Wentz after 2018 and rolling with Foles.

Whatever careers were sacrificed to get the Eagles a Super Bowl was worth it. 

5 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

This is a thing about fantasy hypotheticals. It is like shoveling horse crap. How do you know that the Eagles do not win Super Bowl in 2017 without Wentz?? You have any proof? Team is not just a QB. We had a hell of the team, and coaching team in place. Super running game! We could have discovered another player by accident, who had never seen the light of day because of Wentz. But if someone asked me whether I would like to have Wentz on my fantasy team..No I would not. And yes I think we could have won without him. It is possible.

 

Yes it is definitely possible.

That is where I am with all of this....how do we definitely know that without him we do not win the Superbowl?? We just do not know that so I would say no....

You can quantify clutch sometimes.

Foles in 2013 weeks 16 and 17 must win games. 2-0

Foles in the 2013 playoffs. 0-1 (Thanks to Cooper's horrific drop)

Foles in 2017 going for the 1 seed 2-0 

Foles in the playoffs 3-0

Foles in 2018 taking over for a 6-7 team. 3-0

Foles in the playoffs 1-1 (and the New Orleans win was 20 yards away when Alshon literally gave the ball to Lattimore)

That's 11-2 in must win games. This might be the best win percentage in NFL history in these games. If its not then its someone like Bart Starr.

 

Dak 2016 - no must win regular season games

0-1 in the playoffs

2017 Christmas Eve must win at 8-6  loss 0-1  (missed the playoffs by a game)

2018 No must win games

1-1 in the playoffs

edit in progress

2019 - 1 game lead over Philly with 4 to play. Wentz goes 4-0 and Dak 2-2 including a head to head win by the Eagles  2-2

2020 - injury

2021 No must win games with the Packers in the 1 seed pretty clearly

0-1 in the playoffs

That's 3-6 in must win games. Dak is clearly and obviously inferior to Foles for any playoff scenario.

Now if you want to talk about could Dak have gone 11-2 and got hurt when Foles took over? Also no. Wentz had a magic that season that Dak does not have.

Wentz was the clear frontrunner for MVP or right there with Brady.  Dak never did that.

He was co-Cowboys MVP with Zeke in 2016 (or 1A anyway) Dak was 3rd in passer rating in 2016 but not top 10 in passing TDs or yards.

 

It would also be good if we had a 5 game sample of Dak in the playoffs in which he was 1-4 to be pretty sure he sucks.

In the one game he did win in the playoffs they outrushed Seattle 164 to 73. Zeke ran for 137.

Its odd that he does not get DC or NY in the playoffs and he can't win against legit competition.

Wentz had more must win game wins in 2019 than Dak in his entire career so far.

7 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

You have any proof? Team is not just a QB. We had a hell of the team, and coaching team in place. Super running game!

Wentz was leading the MVP charge until his injury. He was incredible that year. Without him we don't get the #1 seed.

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Wentz was leading the MVP charge until his injury. He was incredible that year. Without him we don't get the #1 seed.

We do not know that. Philadelphia Eagles as a team won the Super Bowl...not Wentz!  We could have won it differently without him. To say that is impossible..I would like to see proof of this mathematical definition of impossibility. 

11 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Wentz was leading the MVP charge until his injury. He was incredible that year. Without him we don't get the #1 seed.

He wasn't the consensus MVP before his injury, Here's a link to an ESPN poll saying their experts have switched to Brady the week we lost to the Seahawks,  Wentz was injured the next game against the Rams and Brady eventually won it by 32 votes from Todd Gurley, Wentz got 2 votes in 3rd.

I said knowing what we know now, I'd take someone else, because I'd take Mahomes in 2017, Nick Foles put up decent numbers with that Eagles roster, you're telling me Mahomes couldn't get it over the hump?  And what's more Mahomes would have absolutely monstered the NFC East from 2018 - 2021.

On 11/25/2022 at 4:44 PM, Devaster said:

Mahomes was largely unknown outside of some of the teams' draft rooms. So it isn't a given that he would have been on the Eagles' radar before he was sniped by another team.

It's inexcusable to not be aware of a talent like that if that's your job, it's not like Texas Tech is a Division III school. 

On 11/25/2022 at 1:58 AM, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I'm fine with the pick because we won the big one, but in a cosmic cheat code hypothetical do over with perfect hindsight, with everything else turning out as it is now?

Then no, in 2016 I stand pat and take Leonard Floyd or whoever falls out of that pretty stellar top 7 when we don't take Wentz (apart from Zeke), and do a smaller trade up in 2017 to take Mahomes, because Mahomes is the QB of his generation that settles the position for 10+ years and Wentz is  riding the pine on his 3rd team in 5 years.

 

 

 

 

Would we have drafted Mahomes? There were lots of teams that worked him out and still passed on him

22 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

It's inexcusable to not be aware of a talent like that if that's your job, it's not like Texas Tech is a Division III school. 

Yet so many teams passed on him. And there was genuine surprise when the Chiefs traded up for him.

1 hour ago, Devaster said:

Yet so many teams passed on him. And there was genuine surprise when the Chiefs traded up for him.

I've always said many GM's are very football ignorant, just look at many of Howie's picks and passes, dude has to spend money on free agents to field a competitive team, unfortunately you can't sustain a winning team that way.

 

1 hour ago, EagleVA said:

It's inexcusable to not be aware of a talent like that if that's your job, it's not like Texas Tech is a Division III school. 

It is. And yet the Bears traded up for Trubisky in that draft. San Fran took Alex Smith instead of Aaron Rodgers. Etc, etc... Talent gets missed all the time.

4 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

It is. And yet the Bears traded up for Trubisky in that draft. San Fran took Alex Smith instead of Aaron Rodgers. Etc, etc... Talent gets missed all the time.

Don't forget about the Jets selection of Zach Wilson by the former Eagles Asst GM.

6 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

Don't forget about the Jets selection of Zach Wilson by the former Eagles Asst GM.

There were reports we wanted to trade up for him

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

There were reports we wanted to trade up for him

Like I said, there're a lot of football ignorant GM's in the league.