20 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Brett Veach got to KC in 2017 after Kelce and Hill.  Mahomes was a great pick. Who else? Maybe a couple OLs in 2021?

Veach also picked Mahomes the same way Howie picked Foles. (Andy is the QB guy with final say)

 

Just want to say that Mahomes was not a Reid pick at all. Veach did that all on his own and had to sell Mahomes to Reid. Of course Reid had the final say, but that was all Veach on the Mahomes pick. I haven't paid all that much attention to the KC drafts, but they seem to be doing just fine with that one pick.

39 minutes ago, Devaster said:

Just want to say that Mahomes was not a Reid pick at all. Veach did that all on his own and had to sell Mahomes to Reid. Of course Reid had the final say, but that was all Veach on the Mahomes pick. I haven't paid all that much attention to the KC drafts, but they seem to be doing just fine with that one pick.

John Dorsey was a big part of that too

I'd rank Howie in the top 30% of GM's as far as running the draft goes. I'm also counting his undrafted free agents signed, as well as using draft capital to stash more picks or trade for young proven talent. He's had several busts, but plenty of hits as well. Only place where you see regular Howie bashing regarding the draft is on this board.  Enough said. 

10 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Wrong and Wrong.

Chip took over in 2014

Chip had his hands all over that draft. 4 out 8 players were drafted from the PAC 10. He also talked about the importance of drafting Seniors which he did as well. If you don’t’ see Chip’s fingerprints all over that draft, you’re blind.

Do I think Chip had full control, no, but Howie didn’t either. 

2 hours ago, Devaster said:

Just want to say that Mahomes was not a Reid pick at all. Veach did that all on his own and had to sell Mahomes to Reid. Of course Reid had the final say, but that was all Veach on the Mahomes pick. I haven't paid all that much attention to the KC drafts, but they seem to be doing just fine with that one pick.

No way Andy does not know about QBs and needs to be sold on them. He is mister QB.

Veach may have targeted him early on and talked him up but no way does Andy need another person to tell him if a QB is legit.

41 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

Chip had his hands all over that draft. 4 out 8 players were drafted from the PAC 10. He also talked about the importance of drafting Seniors which he did as well. If you don’t’ see Chip’s fingerprints all over that draft, you’re blind.

Do I think Chip had full control, no, but Howie didn’t either. 

The 2015 Bengals selected 3 Pac 10 players You have to be blind to not see it was Chip Kelly's influence.

The 2020 Colts selected 4 Pac 10 players. You have to be blind not to see it was Chip Kelly's influence.

The Eagles scouts probably had a high grade on Ertz before Kelly was hired.

Its called single cause and/or false cause fallacy.

 

13 hours ago, jojodancer said:

I'd rank Howie in the top 30% of GM's as far as running the draft goes. I'm also counting his undrafted free agents signed, as well as using draft capital to stash more picks or trade for young proven talent. He's had several busts, but plenty of hits as well. Only place where you see regular Howie bashing regarding the draft is on this board.  Enough said. 

False.

First here are some links ranking team's drafting and GMs.  

GM Power rankings draft edition - Howie ranked 21st

Drafting efficiency analysis

Ranking teams 5 year draft history - written in 2021, Eagles ranked 30th

Second, during at least 2 game broadcasts a couple years ago the announcers talked about how bad Howie has drafted especially on defense, and put graphics on the screen showing the Eagles only had 1 Pro Bowl player drafted since Reid left - Wentz and we know what happened to him.  

Howie had some dreadful drafts. He seems to have finally learned from mistakes and the last 2 drafts have been better.  He's realized to stick with linemen and I like drafting from the SEC and/or teams that win championships or teams that produce more NFL ready players.  He hasn't drafted any defensive star players in the back 7 he's relied on free agents and trades.  (Overall, the team hasn't drafted a 1st round corner in 20 years, a 1st round LB in 47 years, a 1st round Safety in 53 years.)  The list in the OP here is mostly offensive players, Howie has lacked on the defensive side and it's shown over the years. 

The last 2 drafts were received well by fans. They say not to judge a draft for 3 years. But looking at them so far:

2021 they traded up for Smith who is a good WR but we might be regretting they didn't take Micah Parsons one of the best defensive players in the NFL already.  Dickerson a starting RG that's good, although fans have complained about his mistakes this year at times but he's a good player.  Milton Williams has done nothing (Howie is pretty awful in the 3rd round).  Gainwell is a decent rotational RB picked in the 5th round you can't expect much more than that.  

2022 Jordan Davis has promise, so far he plays 30% of snaps for stopping the run, is already injured and we have to see if he can get conditioned enough to play all downs.  He didn't in college and lacked conditioning so it was going to be an experiment to see if they could get him in NFL shape.  His injury set that back, but hopefully in the offseason he gets in shape and next year contributes more than 30% of snaps.  Jurgens seems to be a solid pick and already getting in on some plays.  Learning behind Kelce is valuable.  But we won't know until Kelce retires if he's a suitable long-term starter at Center.  Dean doesn't get any playing time yet.  The rest were a couple 6th round picks since they traded picks away to get Davis - who only plays 1/3 of the time.  

Looking back at 2020 draft looked worse at first when taking Hurts in the 2nd was confusing and controversial.  Now getting him and Watkins in the 6th makes it look good but the other picks were all busts.  But getting your answer at QB alone makes a draft a good one.

A lot of times it's not who is taken, but who they should've taken.  JJAW over Metcalf (yes lots of teams passed on him), Reagor over Jefferson, the entire 2017 draft was a bust.  Last year a lot of fans wanted a DE drafted in a deep DE class and they instead re-signed walking penalty Barnett.  They traded UP for Dillard - who they never saw workout in person because they thought he'd be gone.  Too many decisions like that over the years.  

Jalen Hurts does make it look much better. Most of us criticized that pick and it seems like it was one of his best.

21 minutes ago, beto_eagles said:

Jalen Hurts does make it look much better. Most of us criticized that pick and it seems like it was one of his best.

At the time, they did it as insurance in case of injury, referenced using him like Taysom Hill as a gadget player, or using as trade bait in the future.  They had just a few months prior given Wentz a $100m contract.  Glad it worked out.

On 11/29/2022 at 8:56 PM, SkippyX said:

The 2015 Bengals selected 3 Pac 10 players You have to be blind to not see it was Chip Kelly's influence.

The 2020 Colts selected 4 Pac 10 players. You have to be blind not to see it was Chip Kelly's influence.

The Eagles scouts probably had a high grade on Ertz before Kelly was hired.

Its called single cause and/or false cause fallacy.

 

What you’re talking about is a false equivalency. When have the EAGLES ever taken half of their draft from the PAC 10 other than the Chip Kelly years? 

6 hours ago, Road to Victory said:

What you’re talking about is a false equivalency. When have the EAGLES ever taken half of their draft from the PAC 10 other than the Chip Kelly years? 

It's pretty obvious that Chip had the authority in that draft, just not as prominent as it was in 2014/15.

On 11/30/2022 at 2:20 PM, NOTW said:

A lot of times it's not who is taken, but who they should've taken.  JJAW over Metcalf (yes lots of teams passed on him), Reagor over Jefferson, the entire 2017 draft was a bust.  Last year a lot of fans wanted a DE drafted in a deep DE class and they instead re-signed walking penalty Barnett.  They traded UP for Dillard - who they never saw workout in person because they thought he'd be gone.  Too many decisions like that over the years.  

The Reagor over Jefferson is egregious and the single worst pick, at the moment Jefferson is on pace to go top ten all time HOF and Reagor is on pace to be in the Arena league, and that wasn't a scouting decision that required any special skill.

Dillard we traded up to take one of 2 maybe 3 O line picks in the first two rounds of that draft that didn't become regular starters, it's like some sort of reverse witchcraft, nearly every team who took a tackle in that first two rounds ended up with at least a starting guard, we got Dillard.

The last two drafts we do look to have made solid picks, we were never taking Parsons, and I think Smith is a 1000 yard receiver whether we have Brown or not, but Howie cleaned house in the scouting department pre season, so we might be back to square one.

5 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The Reagor over Jefferson is egregious and the single worst pick, at the moment Jefferson is on pace to go top ten all time HOF and Reagor is on pace to be in the Arena league, and that wasn't a scouting decision that required any special skill.

Dillard we traded up to take one of 2 maybe 3 O line picks in the first two rounds of that draft that didn't become regular starters, it's like some sort of reverse witchcraft, nearly every team who took a tackle in that first two rounds ended up with at least a starting guard, we got Dillard.

The last two drafts we do look to have made solid picks, we were never taking Parsons, and I think Smith is a 1000 yard receiver whether we have Brown or not, but Howie cleaned house in the scouting department pre season, so we might be back to square one.

I'm not sure how much of it was on the coaching staff versus Dillard being bad at adapting to not playing LT. He's finally started taking reps at LG but this only came to be since Mailata really rose up and took the starting job unexpectedly. It's a good problem to have but obviously not ideal.

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The Reagor over Jefferson is egregious and the single worst pick, at the moment Jefferson is on pace to go top ten all time HOF and Reagor is on pace to be in the Arena league, and that wasn't a scouting decision that required any special skill.

Dillard we traded up to take one of 2 maybe 3 O line picks in the first two rounds of that draft that didn't become regular starters, it's like some sort of reverse witchcraft, nearly every team who took a tackle in that first two rounds ended up with at least a starting guard, we got Dillard.

The last two drafts we do look to have made solid picks, we were never taking Parsons, and I think Smith is a 1000 yard receiver whether we have Brown or not, but Howie cleaned house in the scouting department pre season, so we might be back to square one.

 

1 hour ago, bitbased said:

I'm not sure how much of it was on the coaching staff versus Dillard being bad at adapting to not playing LT. He's finally started taking reps at LG but this only came to be since Mailata really rose up and took the starting job unexpectedly. It's a good problem to have but obviously not ideal.

They didn't see Dillard in person at all.  They thought he would go higher.  When he started falling Howie asked Stoutland who had a phone call with Dillard.  Game film and a phone call and they traded up for him.  This was the draft where Howie wanted to draft clones of aging players.  Dillard the new Peters, JJAW the new Alshon Jeffrey, the following year he used 4 draft picks on WRs trying to get speed (one was traded for Marquise Goodwin who never played for them).

Looks like they had a better evaluation and draft process the last 2 drafts at least.

On 11/30/2022 at 10:26 PM, Road to Victory said:

What you’re talking about is a false equivalency. When have the EAGLES ever taken half of their draft from the PAC 10 other than the Chip Kelly years? 

Two of their top 4 the year before including Foles. 3 total the year before that, 3 in 2009. You have to go back to 2007 to find an Eagles draft that did not include a PAC 10 pick. 3 in 2006, 3 in 2005, its almost like they were doing lots of scouting of the Pac 10 before Chip got there.

What you are doing is taking 2 unrelated facts and pretending some random thought you had about connecting them is fact. Requiring the 50% is a useless straw man arguement.

I can say for sure that Houston was ready to take Dillard at 23. Philly took him instead and they panicked and grabbed Tytus Howard.

On 12/3/2022 at 6:09 PM, SkippyX said:

Two of their top 4 the year before including Foles. 3 total the year before that, 3 in 2009. You have to go back to 2007 to find an Eagles draft that did not include a PAC 10 pick. 3 in 2006, 3 in 2005, its almost like they were doing lots of scouting of the Pac 10 before Chip got there.

What you are doing is taking 2 unrelated facts and pretending some random thought you had about connecting them is fact. Requiring the 50% is a useless straw man arguement.

You’re just reaching now. 

On 11/28/2022 at 10:20 PM, SkippyX said:

Jordan Poyer also says hello.

I was pissed when we just cut him when he clearly had a lot of upside in a position of need. 

Jordan Davis

A.J Brown

Cam Jurgens

Nkobe Dean

Saints 2023 1st, 2024 2nd

A+

Howie will turn out to be a genius if Hurts becomes a franchise QB. 

All I know is Howie better get it right a lot in the coming years, because like it or not he’s going to have to pay Hurts a lot of money which means he’s going to be to compensate the roster with younger talent. Rooting for Howie to succeed.