39 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Interesting because all @20dawk4life kept saying was we were giving up a terrorist and you kept bringing up the dishonored marine part like that mattered

He called the guy a Marine which just isn’t true.

Let's not forget about Trump releasing 5,000 Taliban Terrorists. 

Once again -- all these things can be true:

1. It was a bad trade from a value perspective. We gave up way more than we received. That's just empirical fact.

2. The Biden administration was boxed in and had no choice but to make this deal. We may not like it, but very few people focused on Whelan until Griner was arrested and imprisoned. Putin is no idiot -- a lesbian, minority athlete = checks a bunch of boxes that Biden needs. Had Biden not gotten her out, this would have hung around him as an issue going into the 2024 campaign. So it was a political calculation, and they made the best deal they could while playing the game at a massive disadvantage. 

3. It's a good thing an American citizen is coming home.

Personally, I wouldn't have done the deal and tried to hold out, but I'm not looking to run for reelection in 2024.

Vikas in 2024!

43 minutes ago, Gannan said:

His dishonorable discharge only matters in so much as the right keeps using the "we left a marine behind" narrative. My social media feeds are full of whiny Trumptards who want to make dopey political points about Biden prioritizing a black lesbian over a wholesome marine (completely ignoring the fact that their orange god didn't lift a finger to help said marine for 2 years of his presidency).

So you're following or friends with a bunch of Trump supporters 

On 12/8/2022 at 9:24 AM, iladelphxx said:

The US gets a shot blocking, low post scorer while Russia gets the most prolific Arms Dealer of the last 30 years who is responsible for arming Al Qaeda and both sides of every violent conflict in the lete 20th/early 21st centuries. 

 

 

 

Is Howie working for Russia?

12 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

So you're following or friends with a bunch of Trump supporters 

My entire family are Trump supporters except me, my wife and my dad. And yes I have some righty friends. I just don't talk politics with any of them.

33 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said:

Let's not forget about Trump releasing 5,000 Taliban Terrorists. 

And while remembering that, we can reminisce about Biden surrendering an entire country to the Taliban

28 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

So you're following or friends with a bunch of Trump supporters 

For many of us, it's our own families or in-laws.

Just now, Mike31mt said:

And while remembering that, we can reminisce about Biden surrendering an entire country to the Taliban

What? Trump released the prisoners as part of the deal to withdraw from Afghanistan. Maybe none of the 5000 were involved in the airport attack. That’s the same deal that prohibited the Afghanistan government from being a part of the negations. That’s why the "we let a terrorist go,” argument sounds ridiculous coming from a Trumpet. 

Regardless of that, I don’t see the deal Trump made as being good or bad, it just got the job done. Which was to end the biggest debacle since VN. 
 

I don’t judge this deal either, it got the job done, which was being an innocent American home. As Americans, her life is no more or less valuable as his. Biden didn’t pick her, it was his only choice. Non Trumpets have valid arguments for holding out for more but from everything I read, everyone knew Russia would give Whelan up and that would have to be negotiated under a different deal. 

4 hours ago, Toastrel said:

Trump had two years to work his magic, and yet when Biden took office, Whelan was still in Russia.

While you drove drunk and put others at risk. How about you crawl back under your rock?

Trump didn't take the bait.

 

If you were anywhere near me and a rock you'd be the one under it.  😉

4 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

As opposed to the "Art of Sitting on Your Ass and Eating Big Macs."

🤣

23 minutes ago, Gannan said:

My entire family are Trump supporters except me, my wife and my dad. And yes I have some righty friends. I just don't talk politics with any of them.

 

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

For many of us, it's our own families or in-laws.

Practically everyone I work with. Two of my four kids. Both my siblings. Most of my wife’s family. My wife’s late mom was an active Democrat her 88 yr old Dad is a trumper. My family comes from Johnstown and Southern Lancaster County, I’m not sure how I avoided the cult. I avoid talking polices as much as possible tough I will respond to outrageous lies when I hear them. 

7 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

What? Trump released the prisoners as part of the deal to withdraw from Afghanistan. Maybe none of the 5000 were involved in the airport attack. That’s the same deal that prohibited the Afghanistan government from being a part of the negations. That’s why the "we let a terrorist go,” argument sounds ridiculous coming from a Trumpet. 

Regardless of that, I don’t see the deal Trump made as being good or bad, it just got the job done. Which was to end the biggest debacle since VN. 
 

I don’t judge this deal either, it got the job done, which was being an innocent American home. As Americans, her life is no more or less valuable as his. Biden didn’t pick her, it was his only choice. Non Trumpets have valid arguments for holding out for more but from everything I read, everyone knew Russia would give Whelan up and that would have to be negotiated under a different deal. 

They wouldn't have taken over the airport in 15 min had Biden given that entire withdrawal more than a fleeting thought.

Instead he just tried to blame Trump for his miserable failure, and then had to turn around and beg the Afghans to let us leave.  And still he left people behind.

Trump was right to negotiate with the Taliban because there was no other end game.  He should be applauded and respected for having the balls to admit that the whole situation was a quagmire and a mistake from the start.

If Trump didn't have that political courage, we'd still be there to this day, risking American lives for no other reason than to double down on piss poor decisions made by his predecessors

30 minutes ago, Gannan said:

My entire family are Trump supporters except me, my wife and my dad. And yes I have some righty friends. I just don't talk politics with any of them.

Did you explain to them about the fabric of our democracy?  

2 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

 

Practically everyone I work with. Two of my four kids. Both my siblings. Most of my wife’s family. My wife’s late mom was an active Democrat her 88 yr old Dad is a trumper. My family comes from Johnstown and Southern Lancaster County, I’m not sure how I avoided the cult. I avoid talking polices as much as possible tough I will respond to outrageous lies when I hear them. 

yeah, not a ton of progressives in them parts. 

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

They wouldn't have taken over the airport 8n 15 min had Biden given that entire withdrawal more than a fleeting thought.

Instead he just tried to blame Trump for his miserable failure, and then had to turn around and beg the Afghans to let us leave.  And still he left people behind.

Trump was right to negotiate with the Taliban because there was no other end game.  He should be applauded and respected for having the balls to admit that the whole situation was a quagmire and a mistake from the start.

If Trump didn't have that political courage, we'd still be there to this day, risking American lives for no other reason than to double down on piss poor decisions made by his predecessors

Trump let 5000 Teresita go to appease the Taliban. The that’s ok.  
 

Biden let one terrorist go for the release of an American citizen. Worse deal ever. 

6 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Trump let 5000 Teresita go to appease the Taliban. The that’s ok.  
 

Biden let one terrorist go for the release of an American citizen. Worse deal ever. 

To appease them.  As if they werent going to immediately take over the country and release them on their own.

To analyze that deal and pretend there was another option (aside from permanent war) is either ignorant or dishonest.

 

Edit: and just curious, if Trump didnt release them, then what?  What do you do with 5k prisoners who arent American in a country we don't want to be involved with anymore?  

Id love to hear you answer that question.  Guantanamo Bay East?  What happens to those prisoners?

  Trump literally let 5000 Taliban prisoners go free and got sheet all for it.  Weakest loser in history.

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

To appease them.  As if they werent going to immediately take over the country and release them on their own.

To analyze that deal and pretend there was another option (aside from permanent war) is either ignorant or dishonest.

Maybe you missed the part where I don’t judge the deal as good or bad. 
 

To analyze Biden’s role in ending OEF differently than Trumps, is either dishonest or hypothetical, or both. 

1 minute ago, Tnt4philly said:

Maybe you missed the part where I don’t judge the deal as good or bad. 
 

To analyze Biden’s role in ending OEF differently than Trumps, is either dishonest or hypothetical, or both. 

It's this one.  Modern Republicans are nihilists.  They don't care one way or another, they just hope it hurts their opponent politically. 

6 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Maybe you missed the part where I don’t judge the deal as good or bad. 
 

To analyze Biden’s role in ending OEF differently than Trumps, is either dishonest or hypothetical, or both. 

Ok then answer my question just for funsies then: what should happen to those 5k prisoners?

Theres really only two answers: release them, or detain them indefinitely (Guantanamo Bay East)

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

Ok then answer my question just for funsies then: what should happen to those 5k prisoners?

Theres really only two answers: release them, or detain them indefinitely (Guantanamo Bay East)

He had two options.  Keep them indefinitely or show weakness.  He chose weakness.

30 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

 

 I’m not sure how I avoided the cult.

It's fox news and right wing radio. While some of my friends can be pretty far left, they don't sit around watching MSNBC all day. On the other hand all of my right wing friends and family watch nothing but fox news (or OAN or Newsmax). They don't read books. The don't watch netflix or other streaming services. Just all right wing politics all the time. It rots their brains. 

No Urlacher 

32 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

 

Did you explain to them about the fabric of our democracy?  

Exhibit A