On 3/11/2023 at 8:27 AM, NOTW said:

Name the last good DB the Eagles drafted as a day 1 starter.

The same could have been said about WR and then they drafted Smith two years ago. Part of the reason they haven't drafted/developed a stud in the secondary in a very long time is that they haven't used a first round pick on a DB since Lito, which happened to be the last time they drafted a stud at the position. To your argument he wasn't a day one starter but once Taylor and Vincent moved in Lito's second season he went right into the lineup and was good.

20 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

The same could have been said about WR and then they drafted Smith two years ago. Part of the reason they haven't drafted/developed a stud in the secondary in a very long time is that they haven't used a first round pick on a DB since Lito, which happened to be the last time they drafted a stud at the position. To your argument he wasn't a day one starter but once Taylor and Vincent moved in Lito's second season he went right into the lineup and was good.

Good point. But I'd still prefer they keep 1 of the 2 potentially walking. None of the other guys on the roster are a good fit playing outside for entire games. Bring back Slay or Bradberry and draft a starter.

16 minutes ago, Devaster said:

Good point. But I'd still prefer they keep 1 of the 2 potentially walking. None of the other guys on the roster are a good fit playing outside for entire games. Bring back Slay or Bradberry and draft a starter.

I agree. They need to bring back one of the corners and CJGJ in my opinion. Epps and one of the corners can go and can be replaced with cheaper young talent. My plan B would be to bring back Bradberry if they can't get CJGJ done and plug the S position with a combination of cheap veterans/young players. I don't see the point in investing a long term deal with even average starting safety money in Marcus Epps who is only a decent player.

3 hours ago, T-1000 said:

The same could have been said about WR and then they drafted Smith two years ago. Part of the reason they haven't drafted/developed a stud in the secondary in a very long time is that they haven't used a first round pick on a DB since Lito, which happened to be the last time they drafted a stud at the position. To your argument he wasn't a day one starter but once Taylor and Vincent moved in Lito's second season he went right into the lineup and was good.

No, it's not the same. You use WR as a comparison, ok. They managed to draft Desean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Jason Avant, Jordan Matthews and Nelson Ahgolor prior to Devonta Smith. Jackson, Maclin, Matthews & Agholor were day 1 starters. Immediately before Smith they had JJAW & Reagor. But they had much more success at WR in the last 20 years than corner.

In the 2002 draft they hit the jackpot drafting Lito Sheppard, Michael Lewis, Sheldon Brown & getting undrafted free agent Quentin Mikell in the same draft (plus Brian Westbrook at RB, what a draft!). But they weren't even day 1 starters, they started after a transition year. We don't know if they would have been good as rookie starters, or if developing for a year under Vincent & Taylor was a factor in their success. 

In the last 20 years at corner the best they've done were Eric Rowe (traded after 1 year), Maddox (not a day 1 starter, not an outside corner expected to cover the best WR) and Jalen Mills (not a day 1 starter). 

The rest have been busts. They have not drafted a corner capable of stepping in on day 1 to take over for the level of talent in Slay or Bradberry. 

To expect that all of a sudden this year is a reach. They have an opportunity to draft a corner at #10. But they need that rookie paired with either Slay or Bradberry. 

 

This is they type of rumor that I like to see. 

I would cut Slay in a heartbeat if it meant being able to bring back CJGJ ... unfortunately there's no guarantees at this point. 

Just now, Rey said:

I would cut Slay in a heartbeat if it meant being able to bring back CJGJ ... unfortunately there's no guarantees at this point. 

 

But then we wouldn't have any outside corners.  I'd move Slay if it meant we were bringing Bradberry back.  

50 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

But then we wouldn't have any outside corners.  I'd move Slay if it meant we were bringing Bradberry back.  

 Gardner-Johnson's 25 and just now hitting his prime ... Slay's 32 and already shown signs of being on the downside. I'd move Slay if it means "either" CJGJ "or" Bradbury back.

FWIW about Bradberry 

 

 

13 hours ago, NOTW said:

FWIW about Bradberry 

 

 

I honestly think that means Slay is good as gone, because Bradberry is getting $17 to 20mill on the open market after last year and Howie must know that.

8 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I honestly think that means Slay is good as gone, because Bradberry is getting $17 to 20mill on the open market after last year and Howie must know that.

Why would Slay be gone? Slay is actually the one under contract that the would need to extend/restructure if he can't be traded. I think Slay is probably the most likely to stay. I haven't looked at Slay's contract but I don't think they can cut him without a significant dead cap hit.

1 minute ago, Devaster said:

Why would Slay be gone? Slay is actually the one under contract that the would need to extend/restructure if he can't be traded. I think Slay is probably the most likely to stay. I haven't looked at Slay's contract but I don't think they can cut him without a significant dead cap hit.

You are probably right. Either way, you can't lose both. If they feel it makes more sense to sign Bradberry who is three years younger it wouldn't shock me if they went in that direction.

25 minutes ago, Devaster said:

Why would Slay be gone? Slay is actually the one under contract that the would need to extend/restructure if he can't be traded. I think Slay is probably the most likely to stay. I haven't looked at Slay's contract but I don't think they can cut him without a significant dead cap hit.

The contract Slay is under is ridiculous, his cap number is the highest in the league for a corner, he's been given permission to seek a trade and he'll be cut with a June 1st if they can't find someone to give up a 4th or 5th to take on his contract.

4 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The contract Slay is under is ridiculous, his cap number is the highest in the league for a corner, he's been given permission to seek a trade and he'll be cut with a June 1st if they can't find someone to give up a 4th or 5th to take on his contract.

Slay seems more like a me guy. Especially so when he threw his own guys under the bus on social media. While everyone else realizes their contract is jacked in need of restructure given their age, he doesn't seem like he's willing. Wherever he goes they're going to ask to restructure more than likely.

22 minutes ago, judunno said:

Slay seems more like a me guy. Especially so when he threw his own guys under the bus on social media. While everyone else realizes their contract is jacked in need of restructure given their age, he doesn't seem like he's willing. Wherever he goes they're going to ask to restructure more than likely.

Huh?

He has said he wants to be an Eagle and both sides want a deal and they're testing the market.  Howie has done that before - told players to test the market.  Sometimes they end up re-signing with the Eagles.  That's the business side.  I don't get a "me guy" from him at all.

8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Huh?

He has said he wants to be an Eagle and both sides want a deal and they're testing the market.  Howie has done that before - told players to test the market.  Sometimes they end up re-signing with the Eagles.  That's the business side.  I don't get a "me guy" from him at all.

So we're going to pretend he didn't throw his own teammate under the bus last season. Cool. Further he's testing the trade market. Not the FA market to gauge his value.

24 minutes ago, judunno said:

So we're going to pretend he didn't throw his own teammate under the bus last season. Cool. Further he's testing the trade market. Not the FA market to gauge his value.

I'm not familiar with that what happened? 

Further, did you read the comments that this started with him wanting an extension to stay with the Eagles, and they told him to test the market? 

29 minutes ago, judunno said:

So we're going to pretend he didn't throw his own teammate under the bus last season. Cool. Further he's testing the trade market. Not the FA market to gauge his value.

"Me guy" here congratulating teammates on their new contacts. 

 

 

He also re-tweeted this, happy Kelce is staying. 

 

 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I'm not familiar with that what happened? 

Further, did you read the comments that this started with him wanting an extension to stay with the Eagles, and they told him to test the market? 

That seems atypical. Usually in the past they did this for fa guys or by releasing people to test the market. I suppose it's the same premise but not the usual. Slay threw his teammates under the bus when he got cooked in the Dallas game.

 

 

18 minutes ago, judunno said:

That seems atypical. Usually in the past they did this for fa guys or releasing people to test the market. I suppose it's the same premise but not the usual. Slay threw his teammates under the bus when he got cooked in the Dallas game.

 

 

When I think about player infractions, character, work ethic, performance, other reasons to weigh whether I'd want him on the team or not, the overall for me on Slay is positive. 

Now, I can see not overpaying him if he wants too much, given his age & recent slight decline. I would be fine if they keep Bradberry & trade Slay. I do want one of them kept.

27 minutes ago, NOTW said:

When I think about player infractions, character, work ethic, performance, other reasons to weigh whether I'd want him on the team or not, the overall for me on Slay is positive. 

Now, I can see not overpaying him if he wants too much, given his age & recent slight decline. I would be fine if they keep Bradberry & trade Slay. I do want one of them kept.

That ruffled my feathers being that he was team captain in a leadership position and all. In a leadership position like that you need to take some accountability and protect your guys that you have to play with for the remainder of the season. Kind of made me think that maybe this is why even in trash Detroit he wasn't a team captain after playing for them for 7 years. Maybe he learned from it but man come on. That's the type of stuff you keep in house with a contending team.

I would only keep Slay if he restructures. Too much against the cap for a guy on the down side of his career. His play dropped off as the season progressed and you just don't find the fountain of youth in the NFL at his position. The bad part is that dragging out the restructure will cause the team to potentially miss out on FA opportunities and bringing some of our own guys back. That's the real problem in all of this. Trade would be designated post June 1st or whatever but that doesn't help the cap situation now which is what we need. So him congratulating all of those dudes, he is a partial reason why they had to leave to begin with because Drew is dragging his feet on the restructure. Not that we would have likely kept those particular guys anyway but still the option wasn't even there.

1 hour ago, judunno said:

That ruffled my feathers being that he was team captain in a leadership position and all. In a leadership position like that you need to take some accountability and protect your guys that you have to play with for the remainder of the season. Kind of made me think that maybe this is why even in trash Detroit he wasn't a team captain after playing for them for 7 years. Maybe he learned from it but man come on. That's the type of stuff you keep in house with a contending team.

I would only keep Slay if he restructures. Too much against the cap for a guy on the down side of his career. His play dropped off as the season progressed and you just don't find the fountain of youth in the NFL at his position. The bad part is that dragging out the restructure will cause the team to potentially miss out on FA opportunities and bringing some of our own guys back. That's the real problem in all of this. Trade would be designated post June 1st or whatever but that doesn't help the cap situation now which is what we need. So him congratulating all of those dudes, he is a partial reason why they had to leave to begin with because Drew is dragging his feet on the restructure. Not that we would have likely kept those particular guys anyway but still the option wasn't even there.

Are you asking for a restructure or a pay cut? The only way to get his cap number down without extending and converting current base salary to guaranteed bonus is to have him take a pay cut. Otherwise the team cuts him and he will find another team more than willing to pay a decent amount for him.

2 hours ago, judunno said:

That ruffled my feathers being that he was team captain in a leadership position and all. In a leadership position like that you need to take some accountability and protect your guys that you have to play with for the remainder of the season. Kind of made me think that maybe this is why even in trash Detroit he wasn't a team captain after playing for them for 7 years. Maybe he learned from it but man come on. That's the type of stuff you keep in house with a contending team.

I would only keep Slay if he restructures. Too much against the cap for a guy on the down side of his career. His play dropped off as the season progressed and you just don't find the fountain of youth in the NFL at his position. The bad part is that dragging out the restructure will cause the team to potentially miss out on FA opportunities and bringing some of our own guys back. That's the real problem in all of this. Trade would be designated post June 1st or whatever but that doesn't help the cap situation now which is what we need. So him congratulating all of those dudes, he is a partial reason why they had to leave to begin with because Drew is dragging his feet on the restructure. Not that we would have likely kept those particular guys anyway but still the option wasn't even there.

I get it, but i just read the quote. He was pissed they gave up 3rd & 30 and said guys need to do their jobs.

Players have said worse. 

Has any Eagles player had any issue with him? Reports of locker room issues? 

Howie won't extend him if the coaches & players see him that negatively. 

AJ Brown was criticized for saying he thought the SB was over at one point after the Chiefs scored. Lane Johnson called out teammates publicly after a series of losses a few years ago. 

A lot of players are "me" players, or just get heated after a loss and say something.

Regular people say worse stuff every day at their jobs and don't care at all about the company, their manager or co-workers. And leave for more money, quit with no notice, etc.

Then because WE are fans of a team our entire lives we have higher expectations of millionaire athletes who have spent their entire lives with a huge ego knowing they're the best in the world at what they do.

It's why the guys who are humble & good leaders stand out. 

Slay is an employee paid to play defense. He was pissed they gave up 3rd & 30. They moved on.

8 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I get it, but i just read the quote. He was pissed they gave up 3rd & 30 and said guys need to do their jobs.

Players have said worse. 

Has any Eagles player had any issue with him? Reports of locker room issues? 

Howie won't extend him if the coaches & players see him that negatively. 

AJ Brown was criticized for saying he thought the SB was over at one point after the Chiefs scored. Lane Johnson called out teammates publicly after a series of losses a few years ago. 

A lot of players are "me" players, or just get heated after a loss and say something.

Regular people say worse stuff every day at their jobs and don't care at all about the company, their manager or co-workers. And leave for more money, quit with no notice, etc.

Then because WE are fans of a team our entire lives we have higher expectations of millionaire athletes who have spent their entire lives with a huge ego knowing they're the best in the world at what they do.

It's why the guys who are humble & good leaders stand out. 

Slay is an employee paid to play defense. He was pissed they gave up 3rd & 30. They moved on.

He also posted something on twitter that he later deleted because he got called out on it.

1 hour ago, Devaster said:

Are you asking for a restructure or a pay cut? The only way to get his cap number down without extending and converting current base salary to guaranteed bonus is to have him take a pay cut. Otherwise the team cuts him and he will find another team more than willing to pay a decent amount for him.

It would likely be a acceleration of a bonus with an extension similar to what they did with Cox, Lane, and Kelce at times kicking the can to free up space.