June 29, 20232 yr 14 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: and there's sea life down there that would have likely eaten what was available. I think at those depths you might be below the levels at which there's anything of size or abundance to munch away on human remains. I'm not even sure things like angler fish are at those depths, let alone anything like a shark.
June 29, 20232 yr 12 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: I just read a headline that they've recovered 'suspected human remains', the word 'suspected' makes it sound like it's something that they can't identify as being human so DNA testing will have to be done. Probably a human tomato paste with bone fragments. The pressure wouldn't leave much. I read that the air, when compressed in the explosion, would also cook things pretty thoroughly.
June 29, 20232 yr 7 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Probably a human tomato paste with bone fragments. The pressure wouldn't leave much. I read that the air, when compressed in the explosion, would also cook things pretty thoroughly. Explanation of the implosion Hate TikTok but this is a good explanation (link is to reddit). Provided the sub imploded at this depth, basically the amount of pressure would cause it to heat to the temp of the surface of the sun.
June 29, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, Tweek said: Explanation of the implosion Hate TikTok but this is a good explanation (link is to reddit). Provided the sub imploded at this depth, basically the amount of pressure would cause it to heat to the temp of the surface of the sun. Thanks. I heard this a.m. about a Tik Tok challenge to steal cars. Hyundai's and Hondas. What a great app. Thanks for the link though. Good explanation.
June 29, 20232 yr I wonder if you can even DNA test a hunk of tissue flash cooked at such a high temperature. The juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze to me when it comes to recovering "remains" here. As jaded as that may sound.
June 29, 20232 yr 4 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: I think at those depths you might be below the levels at which there's anything of size or abundance to munch away on human remains. I'm not even sure things like angler fish are at those depths, let alone anything like a shark. There's definitely sea life down there, whether or not it would eat flesh or not, I don't know. I believe that I have heard (in the past), that the Titanic victims bodies were most likely entirely devoured. But I could be misremembering that. 3 hours ago, Toastrel said: Probably a human tomato paste with bone fragments. The pressure wouldn't leave much. I read that the air, when compressed in the explosion, would also cook things pretty thoroughly. Yeah, and I suppose that the 'remains' that they recovered, could possibly be a conglomeration of multiple people, assuming that the implosion has the capability of crushing them together with such extreme high force and in such a tiny fragment of time. 3 hours ago, DEagle7 said: I wonder if you can even DNA test a hunk of tissue flash cooked at such a high temperature. The juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze to me when it comes to recovering "remains" here. As jaded as that may sound. I certainly don't have any medical expertise to say one way or the other, and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night but if it can't determine who those remains belonged to, maybe they can at least identify them as human. I also don't think that the priority in the recovery is the remains (of the people), but rather the remains of the sub. I think they want to piece it back together as much as possible, like a crashed airplane, so that potential regulations can be drafted to help prevent others from this kind of recklessness in the future. If OceanGate has any money left, all of it should be taken and distributed to the victims families and if not them (because of the waivers), then at least to the governments that were searching and recovering.
June 29, 20232 yr 7 hours ago, DEagle7 said: I wonder if you can even DNA test a hunk of tissue flash cooked at such a high temperature. The juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze to me when it comes to recovering "remains" here. As jaded as that may sound. The "temperature of the sun" thing is a really bad thermodynamic analysis. The water is at about 4 C and is a huge heat sink. There is a theoretical amount of energy produced by friction during the implosion but it is within an enormous heat energy sink that would absorb it. They did not get cooked. They did get smooshed but there again, these "vaporization" narratives are wrong. The body is mostly water, the same incompressible fluid that is compressing the submersible. Cavities collapse and there was a lot of squishing of everything inside the sub. But, parts like a leg or arm, are largely made of water and the pressure would come from all angles not like pressing an arm in a hydraulic press where there are directions in which the pressure is not applied and the arm would get flattened with biomass squishing out the sides. They did not get reduced to molecules. They likely got quite disassembled but something like a foot or some other mostly solid part of the body within the pieces that were recovered is not out of the question.
June 29, 20232 yr 13 minutes ago, Next_Up said: The "temperature of the sun" thing is a really bad thermodynamic analysis. The water is at about 4 C and is a huge heat sink. There is a theoretical amount of energy produced by friction during the implosion but it is within an enormous heat energy sink that would absorb it. They did not get cooked. They did get smooshed but there again, these "vaporization" narratives are wrong. The body is mostly water, the same incompressible fluid that is compressing the submersible. Cavities collapse and there was a lot of squishing of everything inside the sub. But, parts like a leg or arm, are largely made of water and the pressure would come from all angles not like pressing an arm in a hydraulic press where there are directions in which the pressure is not applied and the arm would get flattened with biomass squishing out the sides. They did not get reduced to molecules. They likely got quite disassembled but something like a foot or some other mostly solid part of the body within the pieces that were recovered is not out of the question. Yeah im sure they got torn up into grisly bits but the vaporized into a goopy gel hypothesis seems a bit far fetched. Like you said, the temps were extremely transient and it's hard to believe things like bones got instantly turned to ash. Would've made for a pretty wild episode of mythbusters though.
June 29, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: Yeah im sure they got torn up into grisly bits but the vaporized into a goopy gel hypothesis seems a bit far fetched. Like you said, the temps were extremely transient and it's hard to believe things like bones got instantly turned to ash. Would've made for a pretty wild episode of mythbusters though. If you do a simple calculation, the work done collapsing the sub = (pressure)(change in volume), that's the energy in the form of work. I used the sub as 2m long and 1 m in diameter. Then make the assumption that all of it is converted into energy in the form of heat that goes into heating the contents. Metal is the easiest to heat to so if you assume all the contents are metal it will get hottest and make some simple assumptions about scale, 1000 kg metal, heat capacity of steel at .466 J/gC and do the energy balance, you get that all of the work associated with the implosion could, theoretically, heat 1000 kg of steel about 400 C. That is without even considering that the water would absorb the energy in the form of heat and that some of the work done during the implosion ended up as mechanical energy used to deform the sub.
June 29, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Next_Up said: The "temperature of the sun" thing is a really bad thermodynamic analysis. The water is at about 4 C and is a huge heat sink. There is a theoretical amount of energy produced by friction during the implosion but it is within an enormous heat energy sink that would absorb it. They did not get cooked. They did get smooshed but there again, these "vaporization" narratives are wrong. The body is mostly water, the same incompressible fluid that is compressing the submersible. Cavities collapse and there was a lot of squishing of everything inside the sub. But, parts like a leg or arm, are largely made of water and the pressure would come from all angles not like pressing an arm in a hydraulic press where there are directions in which the pressure is not applied and the arm would get flattened with biomass squishing out the sides. They did not get reduced to molecules. They likely got quite disassembled but something like a foot or some other mostly solid part of the body within the pieces that were recovered is not out of the question. I think you might win the award for biggest understatement for "quite disassembled' But point taken. Regardless of how gooified they became though I'm curious about the logistics of DNA analysis of tissue exposed to that amount of thermodynamic force, even if it was so brief, followed by weeks of a salt water bath. I assume there's probably a way to get data from it but it seems challenging to say the least.
June 30, 20232 yr EDIT: Can you imagine being Virgin's PR person knowing this announcement was coming when they saw the news of the Titan disaster . Poor Bastid.
July 4, 20232 yr Subway faces backlash over 'distasteful' sign at Georgia store referencing imploded Titan sub: 'Do better' Quote A phrase added to a Subway restaurant sign in Georgia appeared to poke fun at the Titan submersible in which five people onboard were killed as it was descending the Atlantic toward the 1912 wreckage of the Titanic. The sign in Rincon, a suburb of Savannah, read "Our subs don’t implode," WTOC 11 reported. A store manager told the news outlet that the sign has since been removed. A Subway restaurant sign in Georgia drew ire for appearing to poke fun at the implosion of a sub that killed five people while descending to the ocean floor to view the wreckage from the Titanic. (TIMOTHY MAUCK/WTOC11 / Fox News) "We have been in contact with the franchise about this matter and made it clear that this kind of comment has no place in our business," a statement from Subway to Fox News Digital said. "The sign has since been removed." The sign appeared to refer to the OceanGate Titan sub, which was heading toward the Titanic wreckage when it lost contact with its mothership less than two hours into the trip to the ocean floor. All five people onboard – OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush, billionaire Hamish Harding, Titanic expert Paul-Henri Nargeolet, businessman Shahzada Dawood and his 19-year-old son Suleman – died on June 18 when it suffered a "catastrophic" implosion, officials said after the debris was found on June 22. Social media users were quick to sound off. "@SUBWAY this is at your store in Rincon, GA. Not only is it distasteful, it’s just sad. Do better," one user tweeted. "This is what we are doing now ? Making fun of people who lost their lives," another wrote. "In Rincon, GA; I would love to hear what @Subway says about this... IMO, it's horrible taste for a chain that is trying to reinvent themselves," another said. Poor taste? Ok. But I did laugh when I read what was on the sign. Some of the best ever humor is the stuff that's in 'poor taste'.
July 4, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: Subway faces backlash over 'distasteful' sign at Georgia store referencing imploded Titan sub: 'Do better' Poor taste? Ok. But I did laugh when I read what was on the sign. Some of the best ever humor is the stuff that's in 'poor taste'. Thankful for the attention on something other than the quality of their subs.
July 4, 20232 yr 6 hours ago, Toastrel said: Thankful for the attention on something other than the quality of their subs. I'll eat a steak and cheese every now and then, when there's nothing else that I want. That's maybe twice a year.
July 7, 20232 yr I had read that they took their website down, but I guess they didn't realize that archive.org is a thing. So for anyone interested in what was on their site: https://web.archive.org/web/20230622041846/https://oceangateexpeditions.com/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230628130705/https://oceangateexpeditions.com/tour-category/expeditions/
July 8, 20232 yr Fing Wired magazine! Quote others wondered if orcas orchestrated the Titan tragedy. They didn’t, but that didn’t stop TikTok commenters from joking that the whales "ordered Five Guys.”
July 10, 20232 yr On 7/4/2023 at 5:05 AM, Toastrel said: Thankful for the attention on something other than the quality of their subs. Or their former spokesperson Jared
July 10, 20232 yr 10 hours ago, NOTW said: Or their former spokesperson Jared I wonder if Jared is getting the 6 inch or foot long in prison.
July 30, 20232 yr On 6/19/2023 at 6:47 PM, Aspiritfall said: Mary Ann was hotter than Ginger I wasn't even close.
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