December 16, 20231 yr Author 20 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: He offered an alternative policy. Sounds like you didn’t pay attention to what he was saying. He said the United States should do what’s in its best interest. Not just what’s in Israel’s best interest. What the U.S. is doing with Israel is like buying a drug addict more drugs then acting surprised when bad things happen. He also pointed out the host treating the situation like a conflict between two nation states. Which is the same false dichotomy that gets trotted out in this thread every day. The alternative policy that he didn't offer was for Israel.
December 16, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, DrPhilly said: The alternative policy that he didn't offer was for Israel. You mean an alternative to murdering innocent Palestinians?
December 16, 20231 yr 3 hours ago, DrPhilly said: Yeah, I didn't think his argument was particularly convincing but good to have a guy like him that out that line of thinking. I didn’t watch the video, but I’m familiar with him generally. Frankly I think his whole thesis on Realist foreign policy/deterrence wasn’t all that brilliant, more like just stating the obvious. And I definitely disagree with him when he says China could clearly beat the US in taking Taiwan. But I do think that he is generally correct about Israel having too much influence on US policy.
December 16, 20231 yr Oh those Houthi’s rascals. Guess they’ll keep firing away, unless someone decides to target them. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/u-s-says-its-destroyer-shot-down-14-drones-in-red-sea-launched-from-yemen/
December 17, 20231 yr It reminds me of when I was at the zoo once and I saw a male silverback gorilla trying to get the attention of the head male gorilla. He was bluff charging him. He was pounding his chest. He was throwing dirt. The other gorilla just sat there. Every now and again he would glance over at the other one, but for the most part he was just being docile. Eventually, the younger male made another bluff charge, but the dominant male decided that enough was enough, and charged back at him. If I didn’t know any better I could have sworn I heard some Tom and Jerry sound effects as the younger gorilla hit the brakes, turned around, and Fd off in fifth gear. The problem is that while you can often ignore lesser beings who do not concern you, if they don’t get the hint you will eventually have to confront them. All these pokes and prods from the Iranians. And yet all we do is side eye.
December 17, 20231 yr Author 10 hours ago, Dave Moss said: You mean an alternative to murdering innocent Palestinians? Yeah that one. He offered no alternative to innocent Palestinians getting killed during the Israel attacks on your beloved Hamas. The two-state dream is dead. What's your post conflict suggestion Moss? Once the killing stops, what do you envision as a stable solution for the area that is now Israel?
December 17, 20231 yr 7 hours ago, DrPhilly said: Yeah that one. He offered no alternative to innocent Palestinians getting killed during the Israel attacks on your beloved Hamas. The two-state dream is dead. What's your post conflict suggestion Moss? Once the killing stops, what do you envision as a stable solution for the area that is now Israel? Israeli occupation of Gaza and terrorist attacks in perpetuity
December 17, 20231 yr Author 18 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Israeli occupation of Gaza and terrorist attacks in perpetuity Sounds like a horrible solution. That's all ya got I guess.
December 17, 20231 yr 19 hours ago, Dave Moss said: You mean an alternative to murdering innocent Palestinians? Define "murder" Dave Honestly, you are very naive on this subject. If the opportunity presented itself, the Palis in Gaza would not hesitate to kidnap you or worse, regardless of your position on the conflict.
December 17, 20231 yr 12 hours ago, Bill said: It reminds me of when I was at the zoo once and I saw a male silverback gorilla trying to get the attention of the head male gorilla. He was bluff charging him. He was pounding his chest. He was throwing dirt. The other gorilla just sat there. Every now and again he would glance over at the other one, but for the most part he was just being docile. Eventually, the younger male made another bluff charge, but the dominant male decided that enough was enough, and charged back at him. If I didn’t know any better I could have sworn I heard some Tom and Jerry sound effects as the younger gorilla hit the brakes, turned around, and Fd off in fifth gear. The problem is that while you can often ignore lesser beings who do not concern you, if they don’t get the hint you will eventually have to confront them. All these pokes and prods from the Iranians. And yet all we do is side eye. The last time we did anything large scale against Iran was Praying Mantis. But they don’t have any naval assets to make an example of, which means air strikes or ground attacks. Ground attacks are off the table, and air strikes just kick the hornets nest. I’ve made this analogy before, but the US, China and Russia conduct foreign policy like their most famous table games. The US plays poker as the big stack, and every once in a while we have to go all in, take out a small stack, and scare the crap out of everyone else sitting at the table. The problem is we blew a lot of chips on Iraq and Afghanistan, we’ve got Russia in on the hand raising in front of us, and China is sitting there in second place building up chips to take a shot at us in the next few hands. So if we bomb Iran we have to hope they run away like the young gorilla you mentioned rather than bite at our feet as we fend off Russia and China.
December 17, 20231 yr 45 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Weak definition, and incomplete in the context of war. Here's a better general definition Here's a piece that addresses the killing of civilians during war. Under your view, the allies in WWII were guitly of murder when they bombed Germany and civilians were killed. Ever hear of Churchill's "de-housing"? https://www.e-ir.info/2022/05/27/the-lawful-killing-of-civilians-under-international-humanitarian-law/ The Lawful Killing of Civilians Under International Humanitarian Law Very strange how silent the likes of people such as you who call out Israel for "murder" or "war crimes" or "genocide" with regard to the carnage and targeting of civilians in places like Syria and Sudan. Why is that?
December 18, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: You don’t think they escalated with their invasion of Ukraine or that there is no cost to the US?
December 18, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, TEW said: You don’t think they escalated with their invasion of Ukraine or that there is no cost to the US? They raised, got called by Ukraine after we bankrolled them at very little cost, and then we watched as Russia lost 70% of their chips on the hand. Now everyone else at the table is laughing at them for dropping most of their stack on a smooth-brain bluff that exposed them for the frauds that they are.
December 18, 20231 yr 2 hours ago, The_Omega said: Criticizing Israel’s actions isn’t anti-Semitic tho
December 18, 20231 yr Author 3 hours ago, Dave Moss said: Criticizing Israel’s actions isn’t anti-Semitic tho Depends on the context
December 18, 20231 yr On 12/16/2023 at 5:38 PM, Dave Moss said: You mean an alternative to murdering innocent Palestinians? Still with this stupidity?
December 18, 20231 yr 21 hours ago, Dave Moss said: Israeli occupation of Gaza and terrorist attacks in perpetuity An improvment over palenstine/hamas and terrorist attacks in perpetuity
December 18, 20231 yr 11 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: They raised, got called by Ukraine after we bankrolled them at very little cost, and then we watched as Russia lost 70% of their chips on 7-2 offsuit. Now everyone else at the table is laughing at them for dropping most of their stack on a smooth-brain bluff that exposed them for the frauds that they are. FYP
December 18, 20231 yr Israel finds large tunnel adjacent to Gaza border, raising new questions about prewar intelligence BEIT HANOUN, Gaza Strip (AP) — The Israeli military said Sunday it has discovered a large tunnel shaft in Gaza close to what was once a busy crossing into Israel, raising new questions about how Israeli surveillance missed such conspicuous preparations by Hamas for the militants' deadly Oct. 7 assault. The entryway to the tunnel is just a few hundred meters from the heavily fortified Erez crossing and a nearby Israeli military base. The military said that it stretches for more than four kilometers (2½ miles), links up with a sprawling tunnel network across Gaza and is wide enough for cars to pass through. The army said Sunday that the tunnel facilitated the transit of vehicles, militants and supplies in preparation for the Oct. 7 attack. That day, militants used a rocket-propelled grenade to break past the portion of wall close to the Erez crossing and stormed the base, killing at least three soldiers and kidnapping some back to Gaza, the army said. It was one of several places along the border wall where militants easily blew past Israel's security defenses, entered Israeli territory and killed around 1,200 people and took about 240 others hostage. The unprecedented attack triggered a devastating war that has raged for more than 10 weeks and claimed more than 18,000 lives in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip, according to Palestinian health officials. Israel says the destruction of Hamas' tunnel network is a major objective and that much of the underground network runs beneath schools, hospitals and residential areas. Israel's military, intelligence and political officials have come under heavy criticism for failing to detect the attack ahead of time. Maj. Nir Dinar, a military spokesperson, said that Israeli security services didn't know about the tunnel before Oct. 7 because Israel's border defenses only detected tunnels meant to enter Israel. "As far as I know, this tunnel doesn’t cross from Gaza into Israel and stops within 400 meters from the border, which means the indicators won’t indicate that a tunnel is being built,” Dinar said. He added that the entrance, a circular cement opening leading to a cavernous passageway, was located under a garage, hiding it from Israeli drones and satellite images. While the military was aware that Hamas had an extensive tunnel network, Dinar said they didn't think the militants would be able to carry out their plans for a large-scale attack. "It’s no surprise that this was the Hamas strategy all along,” Dinar said. "The surprise is that they have succeeded and the size of this tunnel … was really shocking.” The Erez crossing, a fortress-like facility that processed the movement of Palestinians into Israel for work, medical care and transit to neighboring Jordan, held great symbolic value for Hamas. The massive crossing was protected by security cameras and military patrols and the adjacent military base. The crossing suffered heavy damage on Oct. 7 and hasn't reopened. The army said its special "Yahalom” unit, which specializes in tunnel warfare, has worked to excavate the tunnel since it was first detected. They say they've found weapons inside. "At this point, this is the biggest tunnel in Gaza," Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, the chief military spokesman, told reporters in a tour of the tunnel's entrance on Friday. Speaking to reporters on Sunday, Hagari said troops had discovered at least two other "city-sized” tunnels of similar in scope, which they are still mapping. "This was a flagship project that was waiting, finished and ready,” Hagari told a news conference. He noted that tunnel was in use during the war and that Israeli soldiers had killed Hamas militants inside the tunnel. The army also showed reporters soldiers' barracks at the nearby base that it said were set ablaze by the militants. They looked like the ashes of a furnace, with blackened walls and smelted bunks. The military announced Friday that it had recovered in Gaza the bodies of two soldiers who were working at the base on Oct. 7.
December 18, 20231 yr On 12/17/2023 at 1:10 AM, Bill said: It reminds me of when I was at the zoo once and I saw a male silverback gorilla trying to get the attention of the head male gorilla. He was bluff charging him. He was pounding his chest. He was throwing dirt. The other gorilla just sat there. Every now and again he would glance over at the other one, but for the most part he was just being docile. Eventually, the younger male made another bluff charge, but the dominant male decided that enough was enough, and charged back at him. If I didn’t know any better I could have sworn I heard some Tom and Jerry sound effects as the younger gorilla hit the brakes, turned around, and Fd off in fifth gear. The problem is that while you can often ignore lesser beings who do not concern you, if they don’t get the hint you will eventually have to confront them. All these pokes and prods from the Iranians. And yet all we do is side eye. All meant to distract us
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