13 minutes ago, Gannan said:

It's not arbitrary. It's based on what an full on invasion of Rafah would look like. You might be the most uninformed person here which is really saying something. 

Would it look anything like Gaza Strip invasion that already took place?

You're grasping at straws.  This has nothing to do with the actual war and everything to do with local US politics. Biden is a clown

21 minutes ago, Gannan said:

United Nations, but if you have any actual data (no.. randos on Twitter dont count) to prove they are lying, I'd be interested. 

Do you honestly believe 1) that there is an accurate account, or 2) that the UN is being transparent and accurate?

19 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Hamas are barbarians and I hope every last soldier gets vaporized. No I'm not willing to let Bibi's zionist goons drag us into WW3 over it.

Hamas is dragging the world into conflict, not Israel.

What a moron this d4p guy is.

41 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Where on earth do you get that pro palestinians are uninformed?  Many of the ones I know can recite the dates of the wars and leaders better than you can dude. The protests have been happening because israel's treatment of palestinians has been a growing problem for the past few decades and anti zionist sentiment has been growing in even the most pro israel nations.

 

oh wait, your argument is that 'muricans, especially the ones on the right, are the most informed about International affairs? You want a drum roll?

"Where on earth do you get that pro palestinians are uninformed?"

well that's easy, the very poll you provided where 40%+ people think that Israel is committing genocide in this conflict.  That's a blatantly uninformed opinion. 

Weird how we never see any anti-Egyptian protests over their treatment of Palestinians.  All we hear about is how evil Israel is for strictly enforcing their border with Gaza.  And yet Israeli allow more people and goods to cross that border daily than Egypt allows to happen over their border with Gaza.  

"oh wait, your argument is that 'muricans, especially the ones on the right, are the most informed about International affairs? You want a drum roll?"

Not sure where you came up with that one, as it's certainly not my argument. 

And before we go attributing more false positions to me, I'm not saying Israel has never made mistakes or that Israel is perfect.  I think the building of settlements in lands that were set to be Palestinian as part of the 1947 agreement is wrong.  I get why they would have wanted to gain some territory after being attacked in 1948, but I think the proper thing to have done would have been to leave those areas and keep to the original partition agreement.  

29 minutes ago, Gannan said:

United Nations, but if you have any actual data (no.. randos on Twitter dont count) to prove they are lying, I'd be interested. 

The 30,000+ number is from the "Gaza Health Ministry", aka Hamas.  And nations and media just run with it, despite there being obvious and glaring deficiencies in the data, which Hamas actually admitted to last month.  

9 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

"Where on earth do you get that pro palestinians are uninformed?"

well that's easy, the very poll you provided where 40%+ people think that Israel is committing genocide in this conflict.  That's a blatantly uninformed opinion. 

Weird how we never see any anti-Egyptian protests over their treatment of Palestinians.  All we hear about is how evil Israel is for strictly enforcing their border with Gaza.  And yet Israeli allow more people and goods to cross that border daily than Egypt allows to happen over their border with Gaza.  

"oh wait, your argument is that 'muricans, especially the ones on the right, are the most informed about International affairs? You want a drum roll?"

Not sure where you came up with that one, as it's certainly not my argument. 

And before we go attributing more false positions to me, I'm not saying Israel has never made mistakes or that Israel is perfect.  I think the building of settlements in lands that were set to be Palestinian as part of the 1947 agreement is wrong.  I get why they would have wanted to gain some territory after being attacked in 1948, but I think the proper thing to have done would have been to leave those areas and keep to the original partition agreement.  

Again, there are EXTREMELy informed people, experts on the matter, who think its genocide.  You might not like the opinion, there might be a host of others who are calling it genocide simply to communicate the level of horror they feel over what is happening.  But its not an inherent symptom of the anti israel crowd being less informed.

 

As for Egypt, yeah they get a pass and they shouldn't, but the conflict isn't with them either so its far from apples to apples.

wow, EXTREMELy ???? 

hamascide

2 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

wow, EXTREMELy ???? 

He probably means linguists, etymologists, or lexicographers who study the meaning and usage of words.

They are, in fact, extremelY informed on such matters.

5 minutes ago, Arthur Jackson said:

He probably means linguists, etymologists, or lexicographers who study the meaning and usage of words.

They are, in fact, extremelY informed on such matters.

the guy F's his hoagies and then eats them ... i have a tough time getting passed that fact whenever i read one of his posts. 

1 minute ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

the guy F's his hoagies and then eats them ...

so?

 

 

2 minutes ago, Arthur Jackson said:

so?

 

 

well, you are English after all, so ... 

43 minutes ago, Procus said:

Do you honestly believe 1) that there is an accurate account, or 2) that the UN is being transparent and accurate?

I don't want to speak for him, but I do agree with you that I don't think there is yet an accurate count from an objective source, but that also doesn't stop people from citing a civlian casualty ratio when trying to paint the IDF in a positive light. 

25 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

the guy F's his hoagies and then eats them ... i have a tough time getting passed that fact whenever i read one of his posts. 

Well excuse me, I can't always get a hold of bagels.

40 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Again, there are EXTREMELy informed people, experts on the matter, who think its genocide.  You might not like the opinion, there might be a host of others who are calling it genocide simply to communicate the level of horror they feel over what is happening.  But its not an inherent symptom of the anti israel crowd being less informed.

 

As for Egypt, yeah they get a pass and they shouldn't, but the conflict isn't with them either so its far from apples to apples.

Then those so called experts are completely uninformed on the realities of war.  And they can claim they are experts all they want, but they clearly aren't displaying intellectual honesty in their opinion.    During the pandemic, there was a letter signed by hundreds of "experts", the same experts who were saying that we need to social distance to save lives and if you don't do it then it means you're selfish and don't care about your neighbor, claiming that people gathering en masse in close proximity for black lives matter protests and riots was actually ok and should be given a pass from the typical covid protocols going on at the time.  

So I don't want to hear that a person's opinion is valid because they are a so called "expert" as justification for when they put out an opinion that clearly flies in the face of reality. 

"As for Egypt, yeah they get a pass and they shouldn't, but the conflict isn't with them either so its far from apples to apples."

Hmmm I wonder why Egypt gets a pass...  I wonder why every other Muslim country that has done nothing but treat the Palestinians like sh-t throughout history gets a pass.   And then when Israel gets hit with a huge terrorist attack and defends itself, all these self righteous people come out in mass protest against Israel.  Nah surely can't be attributed to any anti-Israel bias......

20 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Then those so called experts are completely uninformed on the realities of war.  And they can claim they are experts all they want, but they clearly aren't displaying intellectual honesty in their opinion.    During the pandemic, there was a letter signed by hundreds of "experts", the same experts who were saying that we need to social distance to save lives and if you don't do it then it means you're selfish and don't care about your neighbor, claiming that people gathering en masse in close proximity for black lives matter protests and riots was actually ok and should be given a pass from the typical covid protocols going on at the time.  

So I don't want to hear that a person's opinion is valid because they are a so called "expert" as justification for when they put out an opinion that clearly flies in the face of reality. 

"As for Egypt, yeah they get a pass and they shouldn't, but the conflict isn't with them either so its far from apples to apples."

Hmmm I wonder why Egypt gets a pass...  I wonder why every other Muslim country that has done nothing but treat the Palestinians like sh-t throughout history gets a pass.   And then when Israel gets hit with a huge terrorist attack and defends itself, all these self righteous people come out in mass protest against Israel.  Nah surely can't be attributed to any anti-Israel bias......

 

Ok you got a lot going on there but I will say this, I don't think the genocide debate is doing the conversation any favors. People who know the textbook definition, know its a bit of stretch to call it that, still might say yes in a poll because of the level of disgust they have towards it. Likewise there are very likely many who don't know the exact parameters of a genocide, aren't very informed on what's happening and still say no in a poll because they just side with Israel or hate muslims or whatever.

 

At this point genocide is just a benchmark for how offended you are by Israel's actions. Scree all you want for linguistics or semantics, but it kinda is what it is.

27 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Well excuse me, I can't always get a hold of bagels.

yeah they're not allowed in the tents

Just now, Arthur Jackson said:

yeah they're not allowed in the tents

Iknoooooww, right?  I brought my DnD dice, thinking these guys must be players, they kicked me out thinking it was a dradle.

so, you're also terrible at being funny.

22 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

 

Ok you got a lot going on there but I will say this, I don't think the genocide debate is doing the conversation any favors. People who know the textbook definition, know its a bit of stretch to call it that, still might say yes in a poll because of the level of disgust they have towards it. Likewise there are very likely many who don't know the exact parameters of a genocide, aren't very informed on what's happening and still say no in a poll because they just side with Israel or hate muslims or whatever.

 

At this point genocide is just a benchmark for how offended you are by Israel's actions. Scree all you want for linguistics or semantics, but it kinda is what it is.

"a stretch" to call it a genocide?  No, it's an OUTRIGHT LIE to say this is genocide.  What this is, is a declared war between Hamas and Israel.  And an unfortunate reality of war is that civilians die.  And this is especially true when the war is fought in a densely populated area and one side purposefully hides itself among the civilian population in order to maximize civilian casualties so they can try to win the PR battle, which is the only battle they can win.  And look, it's actually working as you have so called "experts" going, "what's happening here is a genocide!". 

 

 

1 hour ago, Procus said:

Do you honestly believe 1) that there is an accurate account, or 2) that the UN is being transparent and accurate?

I believe what I see. I don't think the dead children are being staged. 

2 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

The overriding noise in the media and mainstream in Sweden is anti-Israel particularly among the younger crowd.  The govt, on the other hand, has been pretty neutral.

Anti-semitism or misinformed?

1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said:

The 30,000+ number is from the "Gaza Health Ministry", aka Hamas.  And nations and media just run with it, despite there being obvious and glaring deficiencies in the data, which Hamas actually admitted to last month.  

So civilians aren't being killed? Is that your stance? I'd prefer if you were right, but empirical evidence is pointing to the contrary. 

45 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

 

Ok you got a lot going on there but I will say this, I don't think the genocide debate is doing the conversation any favors. People who know the textbook definition, know its a bit of stretch to call it that, still might say yes in a poll because of the level of disgust they have towards it. Likewise there are very likely many who don't know the exact parameters of a genocide, aren't very informed on what's happening and still say no in a poll because they just side with Israel or hate muslims or whatever.

 

At this point genocide is just a benchmark for how offended you are by Israel's actions. Scree all you want for linguistics or semantics, but it kinda is what it is.

Not genocide nor a linguistics exercise 

9 minutes ago, Gannan said:

So civilians aren't being killed? Is that your stance? I'd prefer if you were right, but empirical evidence is pointing to the contrary. 

He claims 8,000 have been killed.  So you’re at least 27,000 apart.