29 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Lol I'll add a disclaimer because I'm sure feathers will be ruffled. I don't agree with the tweet

Not sure if they’re insurrectionists but they should suffer the same fate and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

1 hour ago, Gannan said:

Not sure if they’re insurrectionists but they should suffer the same fate and be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

Yep. If Tlaib had anything to do with it, urged it on, gave assistance, anything at all… she can F all the way off too.

2 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Lol I'll add a disclaimer because I'm sure feathers will be ruffled. I don't agree with the tweet

I'm not going to comment on the other stuff but in this situation examples need to be made that you do not go through those doors to protest without serious repercussions.  

35 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

Yep. If Tlaib had anything to do with it, urged it on, gave assistance, anything at all… she can F all the way off too.

From what I heard she was just pushing the BS line that 500 people died because Israel hit the hospital. I don't know if every member outside of the intelligence committee gets briefings, but at minimum she is foolish to say that if she doesn't know it's been backed up by US intel. At worst she was pushing her agenda and riling people up that don't need to be any more upset.  

10 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

From what I heard she was just pushing the BS line that 500 people died because Israel hit the hospital. I don't know if every member outside of the intelligence committee gets briefings, but at minimum she is foolish to say that if she doesn't know it's been backed up by US intel. At worst she was pushing her agenda and riling people up that don't need to be any more upset.  

Just out of curiosity - what was the source for the claimed number of dead and extent of damage from the explosion at the hospital - was Hamas the source of this info?  I'm reading elsewhere that the number of casualties and extent of damage was much lower.  Hard to know what to believe when your opponent follows taqiyya

3 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/18/europe/us-veto-security-council-israel-gaza-war-intl/index.html

Good

1 hour ago, Procus said:

Just out of curiosity - what was the source for the claimed number of dead and extent of damage from the explosion at the hospital - was Hamas the source of this info?  I'm reading elsewhere that the number of casualties and extent of damage was much lower.  Hard to know what to believe when your opponent follows taqiyya

I'd wager it was much lower than that 500 number that was circulated by Hamas you are correct. There have been so many stories today I'm not sure where I saw it, but the reasons I mentioned it was because she referenced it in her comments 

2 hours ago, ToastJenkins said:

Good

Only because U.S. foreign policy is dictated by AIPAC

5 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

Lol I'll add a disclaimer because I'm sure feathers will be ruffled. I don't agree with the tweet

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.  For people on the left, they should feel the heavy hand of justice like J6 "insurrectionists".  For people on the right, if you were fine with J6, then you have to be fine with causes you don't like doing the same thing.

At least she later recognized her mistake, apologized and learned from it

Quote

Tlaib refuses to apologize for blaming Israel for Gaza hospital blast, attacks Biden

The backlash to Tlaib's remarks showed divides within the Democratic Party.

Democratic Rep. Rashida Tlaib refused to apologize Wednesday for saying on Tuesday that Israel is to blame for the hospital explosion that day in Gaza, an accusation that sparked political backlash against her from Republicans as Israel denies fault.

Tlaib joined thousands of protesters calling for a ceasefire in Gaza during a solidarity rally hosted by the left-leaning group Jewish Voice for Peace at the National Mall. She was visibly emotional, at times pausing her speech to openly weep and criticizing lawmakers who have not backed a ceasefire resolution.

"As an American, not just as a member of the United States Congress, I am ashamed. I am ashamed that they're saying, 'not yet. Maybe next week.' ... How many more have to die?" Tlaib said.

She also addressed the backlash, applauding attendees for the "courage it's taken to speak up."

"The American Jewish community in my district, and all of you here. I just know how much courage it's taken to speak up. Many of you have been targeted. You're being gas lit. Some people are losing their jobs. Folks are getting events canceled. Literally, their First Amendment right wiped away for standing up and saying that children deserve to live. It is literally inhumane for my colleagues to allow that to continue and say nothing," Tlaib said.

Tlaib also slammed President Joe Biden for his support for Israel since the Hamas terrorist attack.

"To my president, to our president ... I want him to know, as a Palestinian American and somebody in Muslim faith, I'm not going to forget this. And I think a lot of people are not going to forget this," Tlaib said.

"President Biden, not all Americans are with you on this one and you need to understand that. We are literally watching people commit genocide and killing the vast majority just like this, and we still stand by and say nothing. We will remember this," she warned.

Rep. Ilhan Omar is also facing criticism from Republicans over similar comments Tuesday that Israel is to blame for the hospital explosion that day in Gaza as Israel denies fault. As information about the hospital blast was initially being reported, Tlaib tweeted on Tuesday afternoon, "Israel just bombed the Baptist Hospital killing 500 Palestinians (doctors, children, patients) just like that. @POTUS this is what happens when you refuse to facilitate a ceasefire & help de-escalate. Your war and destruction only approach has opened my eyes and many Palestinian Americans and Muslims Americans like me. We will remember where you stood."

Omar tweeted on Tuesday afternoon, "Bombing a hospital is among the gravest of war crimes. The IDF reportedly blowing up one of the few places the injured and wounded can seek medical treatment and shelter during a war is horrific. @POTUS needs to push for an immediate ceasefire to end this slaughter."

On Wednesday evening, Omar replied to her original post, writing that it was based on initial reports and adding that the Israel Defense Forces and U.S. say the hospital was not struck by Israel.

"Our office cited an AP report yesterday that the IDF had hit a Baptist hospital in Gaza. Since then, the IDF denied responsibility and the US intelligence assessment is that this was not done by Israel," she wrote. "It is a reminder that information is often unreliable and disputed in the fog of war (especially on Twitter where misinformation is rampant). We all have a responsibility to ensure information we are sharing is from credible sources and to acknowledge as new reports come in."

Omar called for a "fully independent investigation to determine conclusively who is responsible for this war crime."

The backlash also showed continuing fault lines within the Democratic Party on Israel, with the two representatives standing out in criticizing Israel's government as other Democrats have said they do not believe Israel was responsible for the explosion.

Tlaib and Omar were the first two Muslim women elected to Congress and have been among Israel's strongest critics. Their comments have at times been alleged by colleagues and others in congressional leadership to be antisemitic. Some of the criticism leveled against Tlaib and Omar over past comments has also been criticized as including Islamophobic or racist rhetoric.

But Biden said in remarks on Wednesday that the blast "appears [like] it was done by the other team."

The Biden administration's "current assessment," National Security Council spokesperson Adrienne Watson tweeted Wednesday morning, "is that Israel is not responsible for the explosion at the hospital in Gaza yesterday."

Republican lawmakers called on the lawmakers to apologize and retract their tweets.

Rep. Mike Lawler, R-N.Y., wrote in a statement on Wednesday that Tlaib and others should apologize for their remarks about the hospital explosion.

"It is appalling and unacceptable that Democrats in Congress partook in Hamas' misinformation campaign. ... Rep. Tlaib and her radical colleagues helped spread this insidious lie far and wide, without remorse, and as of this morning have yet to take down their posts, issue an apology, or place blame on the actual perpetrators with the same conviction," Lawler wrote.

Lawler also said he hopes Tlaib and colleagues "can bring themselves to see this ugly truth, the hateful environment they have stoked, and understand the fear their Jewish constituents are feeling."

Sen. Markwayne Mullin, R-Okla., on Wednesday morning called for strong GOP House leadership to push back on what he said was Tlaib's "bias."

"It's sickening. And this right here is why Kevin McCarthy should still be speaker of the House because we should be pushing back on Tlaib right now. ... This is absurd for her to go out there and defend ... a known terrorist organization that has been recognized by the United States as a terrorist organization and then go against one of our strongest allies, Israel," he said on Fox News' "Fox and Friends."

Democratic lawmakers have not mentioned Tlaib or Omar by name but did criticize those who fault Israel for the blast without more information.

Rep. Ritchie Torres, D-N.Y., did not mention any politicians by name but slammed "critics" of Israel Wednesday morning for jumping to conclusions on the hospital blast.

"Critics falsely accused Israel of deliberately bombing a hospital before the facts were known. Did any of these critics condemn Islamic Jihad for causing the hospital explosion? Did any retract the false accusation?" Torres wrote.

"Erroneous reports and some Members of Congress took the word of Hamas terrorists as truth following the horrific Al-Ahli Arab Hospital bombing. They should remove their posts, update their headlines, and remember not to trust terrorists who brutally murdered innocent civilians," tweeted Rep. Josh Gottheimer, D-N.J., on Wednesday.

Following the Oct. 7 Hamas terrorist attack on Israel, Omar condemned the attack and Tlaib said she "grieve[d] the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost." Both called for a ceasefire.

Israel has suffered at least 1,400 deaths since Hamas launched a terrorist attack on Israel on Oct. 7, according to the Israeli Health Ministry. There have been at least 3,478 deaths in Gaza during the same period, per the Palestinian Health Ministry.

 

Another dumb C U Next Tuesday

16 hours ago, VanHammersly said:

He already explained how it works.  You're just pretending you still don't know. 

The money goes to humanitarian organizations.  Those humanitarian organizations purchase food and medical supplies.  The women and children decimated by war eat the food and use the medical supplies.  That's it.

Clearly you'd rather allow these women and children to die because Old Man Bad but most people wouldn't.  Sucks for you I guess.

So how were they diverted to the terrorists before, then?  Why do they need new mechanisms to prevent it?

You say Im pretending not to know.  You guys are pretending to know.  You dont.

The United States is apparently the only country convinced it was a Hamas rocket.  All of europe is blaming Israel, including its defacto leader Macron.  This time my friends it absolutely is the US Government lying to us.

16 hours ago, Next_Up said:

The money will be distributed to humanitarian groups. The groups will distribute goods. The goods could be monetized, as in the case of Africa where there is an extensive black market economy, but it is not so easy to do on scale in a highly disrupted local economy like GAZA. Basically, HAMAS would need to steal the goods, and sell them on the local black market to try and monetize them. So, the local Palestinian residents somehow have millions of dollars to spend on the black market for goods that are available from humanitarian organizations for free. Sounds like a plan!

Your argument is absurdly detached from reality. If the residents of GAZA had that kind of capital, they don't--turn on the news and look at the poverty, wouldn't they just give it to HAMAS to fund the military arm of GAZA? The money isn't there. Weaponizing the aid would look more like bags of rice and flour being tossed at Israeli soldiers. 

Get you head out of your butt, or your cousin's butt.

How, exactly, will they do that?

How will they get around Gaza?  Where will they find these needy civilians who arent Hamas?

You know terrorists need food, water, and medical supplies too.  They dont eat money.

Hilarious you say Im detached from reality when Biden said there were mechanisms in place but none of you can explain it, and it seems you believe the "mechanisms" arent even necessary.

Maybe the Biden admin needs you guys to explain how unnecessary they are, since it will be so impossible.

16 hours ago, Next_Up said:

He's just pissed because West Virginia needs more aid and this takes away from their sugar t*t. Remember, for every $1.04 West Virginia residents pay in federal taxes, they get $1.00 back. He is fighting for his $.04 with his idiotic $.02.

Look how mad you are because you literally have no answers to anything Im asking and are caught in nonsense circular logic.  As always.

And you still make this unbelievably idiotic argument.

24 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

The United States is apparently the only country convinced it was a Hamas rocket.  All of europe is blaming Israel, including its defacto leader Macron.  This time my friends it absolutely is the US Government lying to us.

Based on actual intelligence or just gut feelings? If they have some new intel that paints a different picture, they should share it so we can compare it with ours and come to a firmer conclusion.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Based on actual intelligence or just gut feelings? If they have some new intel that paints a different picture, they should share it so we can compare it with ours and come to a firmer conclusion.

Nobody is buying the evidence the US is selling.  The US also just vetoed UN aid to Palestine over language that would cover Israel's arse.  I've already told you guys, it doesn;t matter who's rocket it was, it was probaly a mistake either way and even if it wasn't this is real good time to push a cease fire.  Israel has already extracted thier 5,000 pounds of flesh.  They have already killed 3-4 times as many as were killed during the attack.  A hospital has been blown up.  Revenge has been had.

 

It is ridiculous to think Israel's ground troops are going to root out Hamas at this juncture.  Hamas is as ready for the counter strike as they were for the attack.  Israel is walking into a not just a deadly trap of disadvantageous city guerilla warfare, they are about to set the only chance for real peace 10-20 years back.  The only real peace attainable is by normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other Arab countries (thank you Jared Kushner?  History is really f'ing weird).

15 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Nobody is buying the evidence the US is selling.  The US also just vetoed UN aid to Palestine over language that would cover Israel's arse.  I've already told you guys, it doesn;t matter who's rocket it was, it was probaly a mistake either way and even if it wasn't this is real good time to push a cease fire.  Israel has already extracted thier 5,000 pounds of flesh.  They have already killed 3-4 times as many as were killed during the attack.  A hospital has been blown up.  Revenge has been had.

 

It is ridiculous to think Israel's ground troops are going to root out Hamas at this juncture.  Hamas is as ready for the counter strike as they were for the attack.  Israel is walking into a not just a deadly trap of disadvantageous city guerilla warfare, they are about to set the only chance for real peace 10-20 years back.  The only real peace attainable is by normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other Arab countries (thank you Jared Kushner?  History is really f'ing weird).

It absolutely matters, just like it mattered when Iran accidentally downed the Ukraine airliner a few years ago, initially blaming it on an american SAM. You think nothing would've changed if it was actually us that did it instead?

The only reason they eventually fessed up is because we had them dead to rights with radar data.

13 hours ago, MidMoFo said:

Yep. If Tlaib had anything to do with it, urged it on, gave assistance, anything at all… she can F all the way off too.

She can, but again whatever is done to her punishment wise should apply to Gym Jordan, Josh Hawley, etc. 

13 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

I'm not going to comment on the other stuff but in this situation examples need to be made that you do not go through those doors to protest without serious repercussions.  

Yeah storming the capitol cant be just a regular thing now. 

We may never know whose rocket landed in the hospital or how it got there. There are hundreds flying every day in each direction from all sides of the conflict. Not only Hamas or Israel, other parties like Islamic Jihad has joined the fight. Perhaps it was their rocket. Perhaps Israel intercepted it and it landed at the hospital. It could be something else. By the time we figure out all the details, likely other atrocities will have taken place. This is war.   

10 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

It is ridiculous to think Israel's ground troops are going to root out Hamas at this juncture.  Hamas is as ready for the counter strike as they were for the attack.  Israel is walking into a not just a deadly trap of disadvantageous city guerilla warfare, they are about to set the only chance for real peace 10-20 years back.  The only real peace attainable is by normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia, Jordan and other Arab countries (thank you Jared Kushner?  History is really f'ing weird).

I feel like Hamas took this solution off of the table with their attack on Israel. Maybe there is a more diplomatic way to remove Hamas from any plan for peace; can they be removed from any proposed-Palestinian state? It seems Israel doesn't think it can happen without military action.

1 hour ago, paco said:

At least she later recognized her mistake, apologized and learned from it

 

If she's unhappy with Biden as the leader of the democratic party, she is welcome to join the republican party. 

59 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

The United States is apparently the only country convinced it was a Hamas rocket.  All of europe is blaming Israel, including its defacto leader Macron.  This time my friends it absolutely is the US Government lying to us.

Doubtful

macron cant risk his own islamic population getting upset or violent.

9 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Yeah storming the capitol cant be just a regular thing now. 

Too late