October 28, 20231 yr 4 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Hamas wants to exterminate them. Not every Palestinian, or even most, feel the same way. Though more do after Israel's response. It's a crap situation. Idiots chanting "from the river to the sea" in the US and Europe are monumentally stupid. But there is less support for Hamas in Gaza than there is for, say, Trump or Netanyahu. And that's not meaningless. Looking at this dispassionately, radicals on both sides of this issue in Israel have been driving the bus. And that sucks. It should be a lesson for the rest of the world. Anyway.. I don't want any of this stepping-back and side-eying the situation on my part to be misinterpreted as lacking support for Israel. They've been under attack by Palestinian radicals since 1947, before Israel was even chartered, and how they've gotten to where they are is as understandable as it is lamentable. What I find difficult to support here is Israel's refusal to even provide an escape corridor for women and children to GTFO before they start coming in guns blazing. War is hell, but at some point you're cruising past losing your humanity to something worse. Hamas is just the latest face of those that want to exterminate Israel. When they're gone, there will be a new group with a new name but the same goals funded by the same people. Agreed Netanyahu is garbage but lets not pretend that what really propelled Hamas to it's current position wasn't Sharon's exit from Gaza. Hamas sold it as violence accomplishing what peace negotiations couldn't and the Palestinians bought it. Did every Palestinian vote for or approve of Hamas? Of course not. But more than enough to stop pretending that the Palestinian people are just innocent bystanders caught between two waring factions. They threw in with Hamas and as you showed in the article you posted, Hamas' leadership is still growing in popularity among Palestinians. War is hell, but at some point you're cruising past losing your humanity to something worse.
October 29, 20231 yr 8 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Well, that sucks. Truly. Sadly, Hamas hides behind civilians and they went too far a few weeks ago. As the Biden people said that is part of war....a war Hamas started and Israel is going to finish.
October 29, 20231 yr Author 10 hours ago, Dave Moss said: Are you a supporter of terrorism or ethnic cleansing? Those are your two choices here. You are the supporter of terrorism and the group whose stated goal is to eliminate an entire country and wipe it off of the earth. I support the highly imperfect side making many terrible mistakes but holding the higher moral ground. The side who has been the greater victim of cleansing type behavior historically to boot. btw - Do you condemn the terrorism from Hamas?
October 29, 20231 yr 5 hours ago, DrPhilly said: You are the supporter of terrorism and the group whose stated goal is to eliminate an entire country and wipe it off of the earth. I support the highly imperfect side making many terrible mistakes but holding the higher moral ground. The side who has been the greater victim of cleansing type behavior historically to boot. btw - Do you condemn the terrorism from Hamas? I’m not a supporter of terrorism, but I do think it’s interesting you consider the side cutting off food, water, and electricity for over 2 million people as having the moral high ground. You’re a mixed up dude…
October 29, 20231 yr There’s a lot of talk about the "innocent Palestinians” being impacted by Israel’s actions in this war. Those arguments paint this picture of thousands of people or tens of thousands that don’t support Hamas and just want to flee and be safe. But if their numbers are that great, where are the internal uprisings against Hamas? Where’s the resistance speaking out against Hamas’ actions? Throughout history we’ve seen internal uprisings against powers that the people disagree with from WW2 through the current Russia/Ukraine war. But we don’t see it in Gaza against Hamas. Why?
October 29, 20231 yr 14 minutes ago, Imp81318 said: But if their numbers are that great, where are the internal uprisings against Hamas? Where’s the resistance speaking out against Hamas’ actions? They haven't had an "election" in 15+ years, and your average civilian would be taking on massive personal risk to speak against Hamas. That's kinda how dictatorships work too. Those in power rule with an iron fist to squash any form of dissent and deter even the thought of resistance or protest. Just like there are thousands of people in NK who hate the conditions of living under Jong-Un's regime but are completely powerless to do anything about it and would never even dare to voice their displeasure.
October 29, 20231 yr 6 hours ago, DrPhilly said: You are the supporter of terrorism and the group whose stated goal is to eliminate an entire country and wipe it off of the earth. I support the highly imperfect side making many terrible mistakes but holding the higher moral ground. The side who has been the greater victim of cleansing type behavior historically to boot. btw - Do you condemn the terrorism from Hamas? The Palestinians are paying the price for electing, housing, and harboring Hamas. Every time a large scale terrorist attack happens we’re told it’s from an "extremist group” that doesn’t represent the people as a whole, yet even when there’s a regime change — the terrorist ideology never changes. Terrorism must be eradicated. What people aren’t saying is that they know 95% of the hostages aren’t ever going to be released. Hamas is using them as collateral before killing most, and Israel should view them as collateral damage, although they can never say it. Israel is in the right here, and the UN Secretary General should be forced to resign for his despicable refusal to condemn the terrorist atrocities that occurred
October 29, 20231 yr 17 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: What I find difficult to support here is Israel's refusal to even provide an escape corridor for women and children to GTFO before they start coming in guns blazing. So I have considered this and looked into it a bit. I found several things that stand out. This is a link to an article discussing Hamas fighters blocking the streets so people cant leave. Hamas believes these people will be better suited as Martyrs who died in Jihad. Their lives have no value to them. They believe their cause not only to be righteous but also required. They are removing the infidels. Any death which takes place in regards to that cause is considered a glorious death. One that is highly regarded by Allah. So quite literally Hamas has already made it quite clear that the lives of the Palestinian people are not what is important to them. Their Martyrdom on the other hand, that is very important to them. It helps them spread their message and recruit more Jihadi's. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-blocks-gaza-civilians-from-fleeing-israeli-airstrikes/ar-AA1iTONs I also found this from the President of Egypt. "El-Sissi also said a mass exodus would risk bringing militants into Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, from where they might launch attacks on Israel, endangering the two countries’ 40-year-old peace treaty." (President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi) So basically even their Arab neighbors dont want them in their country because they cant distinguish civilian from terrorist. A lot of this is the case because many of these children in Gaza are taught to hate the west in school from day one. So how do you tell the difference? Are they all terrorists? no. But do they all dislike or even hate western values and especially Israel. Yes the vast majority of them do. Egypt wont let them in because they are afraid it could hurt a decades old peace. I'm not sure how you address this and help these people, but I don't think letting Hamas off the hook is the answer.
October 29, 20231 yr 42 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: They haven't had an "election" in 15+ years, and your average civilian would be taking on massive personal risk to speak against Hamas. That's kinda how dictatorships work too. Those in power rule with an iron fist to squash any form of dissent and deter even the thought of resistance or protest. Just like there are thousands of people in NK who hate the conditions of living under Jong-Un's regime but are completely powerless to do anything about it and would never even dare to voice their displeasure. Yet some Russians are speaking out against Putin and there have been militant groups attacking Russian forces from inside the country’s border…
October 29, 20231 yr 14 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said: "El-Sissi also said a mass exodus would risk bringing militants into Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, from where they might launch attacks on Israel, endangering the two countries’ 40-year-old peace treaty." (President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi) So basically even their Arab neighbors dont want them in their country because they cant distinguish civilian from terrorist. Nobody is willing to take in Palestinians. Not Egypt, not Jordan, not the Saudis. Nobody. These countries can cry foul and use present circumstances to denounce and attack Israel, but none of them will lift a finger to help
October 29, 20231 yr 38 minutes ago, Alphagrand said: Nobody is willing to take in Palestinians. Not Egypt, not Jordan, not the Saudis. Nobody. These countries can cry foul and use present circumstances to denounce and attack Israel, but none of them will lift a finger to help They should try to stop being terrorists and maybe people will help them
October 29, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Imp81318 said: Yet some Russians are speaking out against Putin and there have been militant groups attacking Russian forces from inside the country’s border… Differences in scale, of course. Russia is a far larger country, and to be honest, his grip had been loosening for quite some time. Xi and Jong-un keep their citizens more in line. Though a more analogous situation might be the Taliban. I'm sure there are/were thousands of Afghans that don't agree with Taliban leadership, but don't really speak out against or change their rule.
October 29, 20231 yr 22 hours ago, ToastJenkins said: You play to win the game. this simpering nonsense is way over the top. I get you dont like the collateral damage, but comes with the territory. The point here is to end Hamas and show that next generation what radicalism brings down on your head. the real test is how they rebuild the area, assuming they take control of it. Thats how you change a culture, like we did with japan post ww2. Not by refusing to finish the job. Even the us fell into this weak minded trap in places like afghanistan and iraq. You're not going to repeat what we did with Japan in the middle east. That's not even a pipe dream. This is the same challenge that terrorists have presented since the beginning: you're not fighting a nation, you're fighting a radical minority that can blend in with non-radicals and civilians. Hamas is not supported by the majority in Gaza, there hasn't been an election in 15 years.
October 29, 20231 yr 7 hours ago, Alphagrand said: Nobody is willing to take in Palestinians. Not Egypt, not Jordan, not the Saudis. Nobody. These countries can cry foul and use present circumstances to denounce and attack Israel, but none of them will lift a finger to help There are quite a few countries in the Middle East who are trying normalize relations with Israel. This really was piss poor timing on the part of Hamas. Part of their reasoning for the attack on Oct 7 was to disrupt that process. It was as much a statement to the Arab world as it was to the Western world.
October 29, 20231 yr 7 hours ago, EagleFan85 said: So I have considered this and looked into it a bit. I found several things that stand out. This is a link to an article discussing Hamas fighters blocking the streets so people cant leave. Hamas believes these people will be better suited as Martyrs who died in Jihad. Their lives have no value to them. They believe their cause not only to be righteous but also required. They are removing the infidels. Any death which takes place in regards to that cause is considered a glorious death. One that is highly regarded by Allah. So quite literally Hamas has already made it quite clear that the lives of the Palestinian people are not what is important to them. Their Martyrdom on the other hand, that is very important to them. It helps them spread their message and recruit more Jihadi's. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-blocks-gaza-civilians-from-fleeing-israeli-airstrikes/ar-AA1iTONs I also found this from the President of Egypt. "El-Sissi also said a mass exodus would risk bringing militants into Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, from where they might launch attacks on Israel, endangering the two countries’ 40-year-old peace treaty." (President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi) So basically even their Arab neighbors dont want them in their country because they cant distinguish civilian from terrorist. A lot of this is the case because many of these children in Gaza are taught to hate the west in school from day one. So how do you tell the difference? Are they all terrorists? no. But do they all dislike or even hate western values and especially Israel. Yes the vast majority of them do. Egypt wont let them in because they are afraid it could hurt a decades old peace. I'm not sure how you address this and help these people, but I don't think letting Hamas off the hook is the answer. Isn't "El-Sissi" a gay-themed luchador?
October 30, 20231 yr How are you Russia supporters apologists managing given their view of Israel, and Hamas?
October 30, 20231 yr 22 hours ago, paco said: They should try to stop being terrorists and maybe people will help them Here’s a short video to illustrate the basic implementation of your idea:
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