November 10, 20231 yr 11 minutes ago, Gannan said: We've been in Korea for over 70 years. Things were settling down in Afghanistan. In the cities, Afghans were thankful we were there. Especially the women. We accomplished more for women's right there than had been done in centuries. The Afghanistan Papers. "A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable.”
November 10, 20231 yr Let me try a different reply.... 7 hours ago, DrPhilly said: ...and yet you won't denounce Hamas We should start small. Maybe get him to denounce a lesser terrorist organization, like Antifa. Or if that's too much and he really needs to work his way up, denounce college campus purple haired woke mobs harassing Jewish students. It's going to be hard, the far left loves them some terrorists.
November 10, 20231 yr Author 3 minutes ago, paco said: Let me try a different reply.... We should start small. Maybe get him to denounce a lesser terrorist organization, like Antifa. Or if that's too much and he really needs to work his way up, denounce college campus purple haired woke mobs harassing Jewish students. It's going to be hard, the far left loves them some terrorists. What more can one expect from a Nets fan?
November 10, 20231 yr 17 hours ago, Gannan said: Were they to do nothing it would lead to the murdering of more women and children. You seem somewhat selective about which murders you care about. A lot of people right now seem to expect Israel not to respond to Oct 7 in anyform. October 7 was an act of war against an intentional state. Hamas the governing body of Gaza attacked another international sovereign state. It was an act of war that started this and the response to a declaration of war is generally another declaration of war. That's exactly what happened here. People should not get that part of this confused. To even suggest that Israel has no right to respond goes against the entire history of warfare and totally ignores the reality of what happened on Oct 7. War is war and it's horrible. Personally If I lived in Gaza, as soon as I saw those rockets launch against Israel that morning my journey south would have began. Gazans spent the day celebrating the attacks. Rather than GTFO of there they seemed to relish the mornings events. They celebrated in processions with the Hamas militants. They spit on dead Israeli bodies seemingly unaware that their governing body had just made one of the dumbest decisions in history. Everyone in Gaza knew what was coming the minute Hamas launched those rockets. Everyone in the world knew what was coming in fact. Hamas started blocking civilians from leaving after Israel started responding. That is in fact a war crime against their own people.
November 10, 20231 yr Author 3 hours ago, Dave Moss said: I think this is a fantasy that you’ve created This one is all your doing Dave and the fix is super simple. Just say/post the words. It will likely hurt you to do so but you’ll survive. Just do it Dave. Say it.
November 10, 20231 yr 20 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said: A lot of people right now seem to expect Israel not to respond to Oct 7 in anyform. October 7 was an act of war against an intentional state. Hamas the governing body of Gaza attacked another international sovereign state. It was an act of war that started this and the response to a declaration of war is generally another declaration of war. That's exactly what happened here. People should not get that part of this confused. To even suggest that Israel has no right to respond goes against the entire history of warfare and totally ignores the reality of what happened on Oct 7. War is war and it's horrible. Personally If I lived in Gaza, as soon as I saw those rockets launch against Israel that morning my journey south would have began. Gazans spent the day celebrating the attacks. Rather than GTFO of there they seemed to relish the mornings events. They celebrated in processions with the Hamas militants. They spit on dead Israeli bodies seemingly unaware that their governing body had just made one of the dumbest decisions in history. Everyone in Gaza knew what was coming the minute Hamas launched those rockets. Everyone in the world knew what was coming in fact. Hamas started blocking civilians from leaving after Israel started responding. That is in fact a war crime against their own people. Yeah, but what about the Ottoman Empire?
November 10, 20231 yr 2 minutes ago, paco said: Yeah, but what about the Ottoman Empire? Everything you need to know about the history right here
November 10, 20231 yr 48 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: The Afghanistan Papers. "A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable.” I'm going by what I saw and what I heard from the Afghans themselves. Afghans, especially Afghan women were devastated that we were leaving. They were free. They were being educated. They were enjoying equal rights. This isn't our government saying so. This was the press on the ground interviewing people. We let them down.
November 10, 20231 yr 53 minutes ago, The_Omega said: Everything you need to know about the history right here Didn't click on that but question: While I know that is Abed Nadir on the right, who is that on the left.
November 10, 20231 yr 13 hours ago, Dave Moss said: @Arthur Jackson did you really find this funny? or is that emoji a courtesy laugh?
November 10, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Gannan said: I'm going by what I saw and what I heard from the Afghans themselves. Afghans, especially Afghan women were devastated that we were leaving. They were free. They were being educated. They were enjoying equal rights. This isn't our government saying so. This was the press on the ground interviewing people. We let them down. I’m going by what the generals were saying behind closed doors. According to them, the war was not winnable, even after spending 20 years and over a trillion dollars, not to mention the loss of life on all sides. It’s horrible what is going on with the women in that country but the effort it took to keep that country from going into full scale war again was not sustainable.
November 10, 20231 yr The whole "debate" about this situation is borderline idiotic because a large group of people refuse to accept a simple truth -- war is hell, and there will be collateral damage. All of those people calling for a cease fire are essentially saying Hamas should be allowed to commit atrocities without facing any repercussions. People crying that Palestinians are dying, and Israel should somehow kill only Hamas members and no one else -- yeah, tell us exactly how that can be accomplished, especially with a terrorist organization that hides among the population and uses them as human shields. For everyone that makes those claims -- grow the hell up and join us in the adult world where there aren't perfect solutions and collateral damage happens. Hamas broke the cease fire, not Israel. Hamas is the ELECTED leadership of Gaza, elected after Israel left Gaza in 2005 and handed the Palestinians a territory with infrastructure. Israel left and Hamas filled the vacuum. Israel now needs to go in, remove Hamas, and try to minimize collateral damage if they can. But it won't be zero. People will die. Just like Germans who weren't members of the NSDAP party died.
November 10, 20231 yr 25 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: I’m going by what the generals were saying behind closed doors. According to them, the war was not winnable, even after spending 20 years and over a trillion dollars, not to mention the loss of life on all sides. It’s horrible what is going on with the women in that country but the effort it took to keep that country from going into full scale war again was not sustainable. And yet they still said we should have kept at least 2,500 troops there.
November 10, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, Gannan said: And yet they still said we should have kept at least 2,500 troops there. To be constantly attacked to the point that we would have to send more troops to protect those 2,500? The situation in Afghanistan is nothing like Korea where there is a clear cut line with good guys one one side and the bad on the other. There is no way 2500 troops would have been able to maintain any sort of stability in Afghanistan.
November 10, 20231 yr 42 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The whole "debate" about this situation is borderline idiotic because a large group of people refuse to accept a simple truth -- war is hell, and there will be collateral damage. All of those people calling for a cease fire are essentially saying Hamas should be allowed to commit atrocities without facing any repercussions. People crying that Palestinians are dying, and Israel should somehow kill only Hamas members and no one else -- yeah, tell us exactly how that can be accomplished, especially with a terrorist organization that hides among the population and uses them as human shields. For everyone that makes those claims -- grow the hell up and join us in the adult world where there aren't perfect solutions and collateral damage happens. Hamas broke the cease fire, not Israel. Hamas is the ELECTED leadership of Gaza, elected after Israel left Gaza in 2005 and handed the Palestinians a territory with infrastructure. Israel left and Hamas filled the vacuum. Israel now needs to go in, remove Hamas, and try to minimize collateral damage if they can. But it won't be zero. People will die. Just like Germans who weren't members of the NSDAP party died. I've seen some people question the military targets that IDF says Hamas is in that are getting bombed. That IDF is just saying Hamas is in such and such locations to bomb places where civilians are. Also seen the body count from both sides getting mentioned how IDF killed a lot more Palestinians than Hamas did in the attacks. People have brought up why Palestinians haven't left but then I've also seen people saying that they weren't able to leave. There's also IDF telling civilians to go in certain safe zones only for those areas to get bombed or the areas near them to get bombed Disclaimer because apparently it's needed in this thread if you criticize IDF in any way: Hamas is evil
November 10, 20231 yr Back during the "cease fire.” "I was in occupied Palestine, in an area where children require a military escort to walk to school. Without the might of the military and the watchful eye of peace activists, illegal Israeli settlers harass and even attack the five-to-nine-year-old Palestinians.” https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-settlers-attack-children-world-stop
November 10, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, Mike030270 said: I've seen some people question the military targets that IDF says Hamas is in that are getting bombed. That IDF is just saying Hamas is in such and such locations to bomb places where civilians are. Also seen the body count from both sides getting mentioned how IDF killed a lot more Palestinians than Hamas did in the attacks. People have brought up why Palestinians haven't left but then I've also seen people saying that they weren't able to leave. There's also IDF telling civilians to go in certain safe zones only for those areas to get bombed or the areas near them to get bombed Disclaimer because apparently it's needed in this thread if you criticize IDF in any way: Hamas is evil The difference here is -- if Israel is committing war crimes or atrocities (for which we currently have no evidence), then they will face consequences because they have signed agreements to follow the rules of war and subject themselves to such oversight. Hamas is a terrorist organization that has done no such thing. If there is real evidence of a war crime, then Israel should face the consequences. But morons screaming that any collateral damage is evidence of a war crime need to grow the hell up.
November 10, 20231 yr "Violence by Israeli settlers, long aimed at depopulating rural Palestinian parts of the occupied West Bank, had grown common in the months since Prime Minister President Benjamin Netanyahu returned to power in late December — at the head of a coalition that included far-right settler activists who have been convicted of anti-Arab incitement and have advocated for the annexation of the West Bank.“ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/09/west-bank-israel-settlers-violence/
November 10, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, Tnt4philly said: Back during the "cease fire.” https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-settlers-attack-children-world-stop Yeah, actions by some Israeli citizens to harass and hurt Palestinians is akin to the Israeli armed forces attacking and violating a cease fire. Yup, that makes logical sense. You nailed it. Spoiler alert: most people are jerks, regardless of ethnicity.
November 10, 20231 yr we have the luxury here of not living under the conditions that these people do, and too often some speak from a lack of experience and true understanding. war is hell and hamas put the flame to the fuse of this powder keg. they started this, they have to own it. that said, i'm with vikas, if israel is found guilty of war crimes, let the chips fall where they may, but until then, maybe some should watch less unedited video clips of war zones on the internet.
November 10, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Tnt4philly said: Back during the "cease fire.” "I was in occupied Palestine, in an area where children require a military escort to walk to school. Without the might of the military and the watchful eye of peace activists, illegal Israeli settlers harass and even attack the five-to-nine-year-old Palestinians.” https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/israel-palestine-settlers-attack-children-world-stop Changed my mind. Beheading babies and murdering concert goers was justified.
November 10, 20231 yr Just now, paco said: Changed my mind. Beheading babies and murdering concert goers was justified. Yes because that’s exactly what I’m arguing. Come back when you are done playing your silly games.
November 10, 20231 yr 11 minutes ago, paco said: Changed my mind. Beheading babies and murdering concert goers was justified. There's conflicting reports on whether that actually happened
November 10, 20231 yr 4 hours ago, Gannan said: We've been in Korea for over 70 years. Things were settling down in Afghanistan. In the cities, Afghans were thankful we were there. Especially the women. We accomplished more for women's right there than had been done in centuries. It is a fundamental mistake to compare Afghanistan or Iraq with South Korea or Japan. These are totally different people and cultures with radically different capacities for social structure. Yes, we have been in Korean and Japan and Germany for the better part of a century, but we didn’t have to spend decades fighting a civil war on behalf of a pro western side. Their populations bought in wholesale to what we were trying to accomplish. We might have been able to impose a western system on Afghanistan, but it would have to be done by the sword and it would involve 70 years of fighting.
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