Conflict infecting climate protests.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12740477/greta-thunberg-speech-amsterdam-hijacked-palestinian-afghan-woman-stage.html

17 minutes ago, Talkingbirds said:

Conflict infecting climate protests.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12740477/greta-thunberg-speech-amsterdam-hijacked-palestinian-afghan-woman-stage.html

still waiting for that chest to fill out

 

 

like watching paint dry 

 

4 minutes ago, Arthur Jackson said:

still waiting for that chest to fill out

 

 

like watching paint dry 

 

She wouldn’t touch you with a ten meter pole

26 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

I understand the dynamics at stake.  Regardless of motivations one side is building a settlement outside their border and then claiming it’s for defense.  Then they build another settlement outside their border and claim it’s for defense.  And then another.  And another.  And the U.S. has been the biggest cheerleader of this process since 1967.  In fact I’d argue it’s one of the handful of things Republicans and Democrats actually agree upon.

This pro Hamoss take is one of your worst ever and that’s really saying something. 

46 minutes ago, TEW said:

I mean, it’s been "their land” for thousands of years — literally since the Bronze Age. We have genetic records and it is pretty clear that they are the genetic descendants of the ancient people of that area.

If you want to make a realpolitik "might makes right” argument, that’s a different matter.

Land changes hands in wars…they lost

and were a colony before that. Never a sovereign nation, which means it was never theirs. Dont care about descent. Or should the sovereignty of the US be invalid because native americans were in this land for ages before europeans got here?

11 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

She wouldn’t touch you with a ten meter pole

that's ok I can still reach her with mine!

 

5 minutes ago, Arthur Jackson said:

that's ok I can still reach her with mine!

 

But why would you want to is the question.

1 hour ago, TEW said:

I mean, it’s been "their land” for thousands of years — literally since the Bronze Age. We have genetic records and it is pretty clear that they are the genetic descendants of the ancient people of that area.

If you want to make a realpolitik "might makes right” argument, that’s a different matter.

an interesting, if old, paper

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/

seems to be a "wash" in my view

Quote

 ...Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times...

 

3 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said:

But why would you want to is the question.

meh

I want pretty much all of them

 

(minus the fatties)

4 hours ago, Mike030270 said:

MORE THAN 250 ATTACKS ON GAZA HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION SAYS

UNITED NATIONS — The World Health Organization has verified more than 250 attacks on hospitals, clinics, patients and ambulances in Gaza since Hamas’ incursion into Israel on Oct. 7 — as well as 25 attacks on health care in Israel.

In Gaza, the "health system is on its knees” and the situation on the ground "is impossible to describe,” WHO Director-General Dr. Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told an emergency meeting of the U.N. Security Council.

"As we speak, there are reports of firing outside the al-Shifa and Rantisi hospitals,” he said, adding that Palestinian health workers were still saving lives despite being "directly in the firing line.”

Last week saw attacks on five hospitals in one day in Gaza, Ghebreyesus said, and in the past 48 hours four hospitals with some 430 beds were put out of action.

He said half of the Gaza Strip’s 36 hospitals and two-thirds of its primary health care centers are not functioning, and facilities that are functioning "are operating way beyond their capacities.”

I agree, it is absolutely horrific that the terrorists store their military equipment and hide their personnel in hospitals making them military targets. Absolutely horrific tactics and a shame that they have so much innocent blood on their hands. 

I also think it is horrific that Hamas refuses to allow innocent Palestinians to use the purpose-built tunnels and shelters through Gaza for shelter against the air raids. Just terrible practice and a showing of clear and total lack of concern for their safety. Really unfortunate. 

29 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Land changes hands in wars…they lost

and were a colony before that. Never a sovereign nation, which means it was never theirs. Dont care about descent. Or should the sovereignty of the US be invalid because native americans were in this land for ages before europeans got here?

I’m fine with the realpolitik approach.

But then one has to accept Hamas and terrorist attacks as an inevitable consequence. You don’t have to like it, you can (rightly, in my view) want to kill Hamas members, but the idea that conquering a people and then displacing them won’t lead to blowback is naive.

You bring up the native Americans… that’s fine and the way of the world. We won, they lost, and that’s life sometimes. But understand we were fighting them into the 20th century, and it required a LOT of bloodshed.

If that’s what you propose for the Palestinians, fine, but by UN definition it is literally a genocidal plan.

2 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

He sees Israel as the oppressor and colonizer and believes Hamas is justified in doing what they do. 

That was Bill Maher's point on Friday when he called out the far left. They have a very simplistic world view where they feel the need to categorize everyone into 2 boxes...oppressor and oppressed. With this simplistic lens, the "oppressed" is always justified. 

2 hours ago, Dave Moss said:

 And the U.S. has been the biggest cheerleader of this process since 1967.  In fact I’d argue it’s one of the handful of things Republicans and Democrats actually agree upon.

It's hard to imagine why it would be in our best national security interest to support a western style liberal democracy over a theology based fascist state who hates us. 

Just now, Gannan said:

It's hard to imagine why it would be in our best national security interest to support a western style liberal democracy over a theology based fascist state who hates us. 

I mean, I agree, but part of the reason they hate us is because we support Israel and their displacement of the Palestinians.

1 hour ago, TEW said:

I’m fine with the realpolitik approach.

But then one has to accept Hamas and terrorist attacks as an inevitable consequence. You don’t have to like it, you can (rightly, in my view) want to kill Hamas members, but the idea that conquering a people and then displacing them won’t lead to blowback is naive.

You bring up the native Americans… that’s fine and the way of the world. We won, they lost, and that’s life sometimes. But understand we were fighting them into the 20th century, and it required a LOT of bloodshed.

If that’s what you propose for the Palestinians, fine, but by UN definition it is literally a genocidal plan.

Nah

there would be no lashback if not for Iran and other providing them weaponry.

human violence and conflict? Yes i view that as inevitable

 

47 minutes ago, Gannan said:

It's hard to imagine why it would be in our best national security interest to support a western style liberal democracy over a theology based fascist state who hates us. 

Seems simple enough to me.

45 minutes ago, TEW said:

I mean, I agree, but part of the reason they hate us is because we support Israel and their displacement of the Palestinians.

And the other part is because they hate Western values and love Islamic extremism.

Israel as a nation is not going anywhere. Attacking it for decades now has done nothing to further anyone's cause. In fact it has dramatically hurt the Palestinian cause.

A change in tactics might be a good idea.

2 hours ago, Arthur Jackson said:

meh

I want pretty much all of them

 

(minus the fatties)

@Reddensays thanks.  More for him.

5 minutes ago, Shepard Wong said:

@Reddensays thanks.  More for him.

They do have nice hair…

 

32 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Nah

there would be no lashback if not for Iran and other providing them weaponry.

human violence and conflict? Yes i view that as inevitable

 

The blowback is a natural reaction to being attacked and displaced. Proxy wars are a tale as old as time; if it wasn’t Iran it would be someone else. Our own country owes its existence in part to aid supplied by foreign powers seeking to subvert the British Empire.

26 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said:

And the other part is because they hate Western values and love Islamic extremism.

Israel as a nation is not going anywhere. Attacking it for decades now has done nothing to further anyone's cause. In fact it has dramatically hurt the Palestinian cause.

A change in tactics might be a good idea.

It’s a bit of a chicken/egg situation. Islamic extremism has ebbed and flowed since Mohammed gave rise to Islam. The creation of Israel in part gave rise to the extremism we see today.

10 minutes ago, TEW said:

It’s a bit of a chicken/egg situation. Islamic extremism has ebbed and flowed since Mohammed gave rise to Islam. The creation of Israel in part gave rise to the extremism we see today.

No mohammed and Islam are the problem. Israel is just an excuse

Well, he died 1400 years ago

7 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Well, he died 1400 years ago

From genocide?