November 13, 20231 yr 2 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said: Israel does have a right to say enough is enough. Yes, they do. However, each and every time they use excessive force, they create new terrorists from the population.
November 13, 20231 yr Just now, EagleFan85 said: Israel is not "targeting" civilians. They are targeting Hamas. Hamas hides among civilians. If the Palestinians don't want to get bombed with Hamas fighters they need to stand against Hamas and push them out into the open. There are 2.5 million Palestinians in Gaza. If they want to remove Hamas they can. There are none so blind.
November 13, 20231 yr 3 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Yes, they do. However, each and every time they use excessive force, they create new terrorists from the population. We agree on the last part. It's never going to end.
November 13, 20231 yr 4 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Yes, they do. However, each and every time they use excessive force, they create new terrorists from the population. What is an appropriate level of force/response from Israel in your eyes? Hamas is hiding and strategically positioned among civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools. So, Israel should not attack those places to ensure that Hamas strikes again in the near future?
November 13, 20231 yr 8 minutes ago, Toastrel said: There are none so blind. 8 minutes ago, Toastrel said: And this is a great example of a person unwilling to hold terrorists accountable. Palestinians need to be a part of creating the solution here. They are suffering because of Hamas not Israel. Hamas has had 20 years to build a civil society in Gaza. That's what elected officials are supposed to do. Instead they have done nothing but lash out at Israel and stop any Palestinian progress throughout their leadership. They are terrorists, they were elected, and the people in Gaza will help themselves emensly by helping to remove them from power.
November 13, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, Toastrel said: Hamas is scum. Those protecting and defending Hamas are scum. Agree again. I'm not trying to sound insensitive. It sounds like you have a good heart, and this is all upsetting. I'm just from the standpoint Hamas needs to be wiped out because they will just keep hiding behind people.
November 13, 20231 yr Just now, Diehardfan said: Agree again. I'm not trying to sound insensitive. It sounds like you have a good heart, and this is all upsetting. I'm just from the standpoint Hamas needs to be wiped out because they will just keep hiding behind people. I just don't buy that shooting everyone is the solution. Seems wasteful and stupid, as well as counter-productive.
November 13, 20231 yr it's so much easier for us to say that brainwashed people should suddenly have a light bulb go off in their heads. if it was only that easy. i just hope isreal can end this quickly with as little civilian casualties as possible.
November 13, 20231 yr 6 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said: And this is a great example of a person unwilling to hold terrorists accountable. Palestinians need to be a part of creating the solution here. They are suffering because of Hamas not Israel. Hamas has had 20 years to build a civil society in Gaza. That's what elected officials are supposed to do. Instead they have done nothing but lash out at Israel and stop any Palestinian progress throughout their leadership. They are terrorists, they were elected, and the people in Gaza will help themselves emensly by helping to remove them from power. To say that a family blown up by an Israeli tank is only suffering thanks to Hamas, is a great example of thinking with your anus.
November 13, 20231 yr 12 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said: There are 2.5 million Palestinians in Gaza. If they want to remove Hamas they can. yet they don't.....
November 13, 20231 yr 11 minutes ago, Toastrel said: I just don't buy that shooting everyone is the solution. Seems wasteful and stupid, as well as counter-productive. It is but I don't think that's what they are trying to do. If Hamas is hiding in an ambulance they are taking it out. It's hard to kill Hamas and not hit anyone else when they are using them as shields.
November 13, 20231 yr 3 minutes ago, Toastrel said: I just don't buy that shooting everyone is the solution. Seems wasteful and stupid, as well as counter-productive. Israel is not shooting everyone. Good Lord man. They gave warning after warning, told them to go south, opened up times for them to go. Four hours a day. Aid is coming in. And the UN is in there trying to help as well. It's clear as F****** day here. If Palestinians don't want to get bombed or shot in this conflict they really only have one option. Turn over Hamas members to the IDF. Anything short of that is not enough. Gaza is not coming out of this with Hamas in power. It's pretty simple really.
November 13, 20231 yr 4 hours ago, EagleFan85 said: The creation of Israel had nothing to do with the formation of Hamas. Unless you count that Hamas claims it does. Israel was formed at least 50 years before Hamas. The Palestinians had worked out multiple solutions to this problem in the 90s. Hamas blew all of them up. The only reason Hamas violence is connected in anyway at all to the formation of Israel is because they say it is and some of the world believes them. Hamas will use any excuse they can find to continue their legacy of terrorism. They are terrorists that's what they do. Their mission and stated goal is unrealistic, unachievable, and quite honestly stupid. Israel is not going anywhere. Get over it and learn to get along with your neighbors. Islamic extremism is a scourge and needs to be eradicated. Regular Muslims across the world should be rising up against it too. These groups have done nothing to help Muslims overall. They have infact isolated much of the Islamic world. Rather than progress Islamic goals terror groups have largely marginalized, oppressed, and often slaughtered their own people. Ironically someone previously pointed out that The Palestinians can't stand up to Hamas because they will be shot. That's the point here. Hamas needs to go and the Palestinians need to be a part of that process. The Palestinian need to denounce terrorism and extremism as a political tool. It's not going to work now any more than it worked in the past. If they do this Hamas will soon lose control of Gaza and this will be over a lot sooner. This is all very naive.
November 13, 20231 yr 3 minutes ago, TEW said: This is all very naive. No it's very simple. There is no excuses for terrorism and the Palestinians need to be a part of the solution.
November 13, 20231 yr 13 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said: Israel is not shooting everyone. Good Lord man. They gave warning after warning, told them to go south, opened up times for them to go. Four hours a day. Aid is coming in. And the UN is in there trying to help as well. It's clear as F****** day here. If Palestinians don't want to get bombed or shot in this conflict they really only have one option. Turn over Hamas members to the IDF. Anything short of that is not enough. Gaza is not coming out of this with Hamas in power. It's pretty simple really. Yes, all those unarmed women and kids should be doing a much better job at turning in armed terrorists who have no qualms about killing them.
November 13, 20231 yr 28 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: Also, I'm pretty sure we killed a lot of innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. That doesn't make it right. It's horrible, but sometimes bad things have to happen to end things. I think this is the disconnect… When we dropped the bombs on Japan, it was such an awe inducing display of power that it forced peace. This was possible because Japanese culture allowed the conversion of shock into peace. In Gaza, the use of force by Israel has the opposite effect: it steels the resolve of the population. Rather than forcing peace, it actually acts to make peace harder. So these are actually OPPOSITE situations.
November 13, 20231 yr 2 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said: No it's very simple. There is no excuses for terrorism and the Palestinians need to be a part of the solution. No one is saying there is an "excuse” for terrorism. It’s just that your view is totally unrealistic.
November 13, 20231 yr Just now, Toastrel said: Yes, all those unarmed women and kids should be doing a much better job at turning in armed terrorists who have no qualms about killing them. If Hamas starts killing Palestinians they will lose their entire platform and prove once again the Islamic terrorists have no concerns for the lives of Islamic people. Some of you just sensationalize ISH so much. Let me see ONE video come out of Gaza showing Hamas firing on Palestinians. It will be over for them. Yes 2.5 million people can indeed stand up for themselves if they wanted to. This is ridiculous.
November 13, 20231 yr Just now, EagleFan85 said: If Hamas starts killing Palestinians WTF? When has Hamas NOT killed Palestinians?
November 13, 20231 yr 11 minutes ago, TEW said: I think this is the disconnect… When we dropped the bombs on Japan, it was such an awe inducing display of power that it forced peace. This was possible because Japanese culture allowed the conversion of shock into peace. In Gaza, the use of force by Israel has the opposite effect: it steels the resolve of the population. Rather than forcing peace, it actually acts to make peace harder. So these are actually OPPOSITE situations. I guess the U.S. Never firebombed cities in Japan before they dropped A bombs. And of course the U.S. didn't occupy Japan after the war and install a Democratic form of Government there as well. The ideologies is the difference. Japan wanted to dominate the world. Hamas Only wants to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. Japan had Kamikazes, Hamas has suicide bombers.
November 13, 20231 yr 13 minutes ago, TEW said: No one is saying there is an "excuse” for terrorism. It’s just that your view is totally unrealistic. It's unrealistic to expect the Palestinians to help themselves a bit? Like for real. There is a huge military force in Gaza hunting Hamas. If the Palestinians want to remove Hamas now is their chance. If they don't well that's a whole different story. It highly unrealistic to think Oct 7 would go off without starting a war that would effect civilians in Gaza. Hamas did that.
November 13, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, jsdarkstar said: I guess the U.S. Never firebombed cities in Japan before they dropped A bombs. And of course the U.S. didn't occupy Japan after the war and install a Democratic form of Government there as well. The ideologies is the difference. Japan wanted to dominate the world. Hamas Only wants to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. Japan had Kamakazis, Hamas has suicide bombers. I’m not sure what point you think you are making. Japan is fundamentally different than Gaza, the Palestinian people, and the Middle East in general. What worked in Japan will not work in Palestine.
November 13, 20231 yr 45 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: I don't understand why the far left approaches this issue from the standpoint of "support Palestine". Just say you don't want to fund Israel. That's what the right does with Ukraine. They support Russia but they usually don't explicitly say it. They just say "don't fund Ukraine" in hopes that if we back off it'll help Russia achieve it's goals. If the far left approached the Israel/Hamas issue in the same way, they'd likely help their cause and wouldn't get as much push back. You can't reach the next level of being a true social justice warrior by taking half measures.
November 13, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, EagleFan85 said: It's unrealistic to expect the Palestinians to help themselves a bit. Like for real. There is a huge military force in Gaza hunting Hamas. If the Palestinians want to remove Hamas now is their chance. If they don't well that's a whole different story. It highly unrealistic to think Oct 7 would go off without starting a war that would effect civilians in Gaza. Hamas did that. You realize Hamas was literally elected to govern by the Palestinians, right?
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