October 9, 20231 yr 3 hours ago, Bill said: JFC, the 2018-19 protests weren’t Palestinians linking arms, singing kumbaya, and having a Coke and a smile. Ffs, Hamas even claimed most of those killed as their fighters. Yeah it started out as an independent protest at the border. Then after a couple of weeks Hamas got involved. Guess when people started getting killed? Hmm, that’s a thinker. Also, Egypt also closed off the Gaza Strip. It’s not just Israel. Think about that for a second. It was open all around, but when Hamas was elected both Israel AND Egypt closed the border and closed the sea and the air. You think the virtue of you having a nuanced opinion makes you intellectually superior, but while you wax at length about the topic, the knowledge you have of it is stunningly superficial. Israel bombed the Rafah border crossing to make sure it can't be used to exit the country this afternoon but you go on with your massive world politics as filtered through American news channel opinions. Also of 456 incidents of death and injury examined after the 2018-19 marches a UN independent panel concluded that a total of 2 could be justified by fear of violence by the Israeli military. The Israeli army opened up with live rounds on kids throwing stones. If Hamas had enough militants to send thousands to the border crossing in 2018 the last two days of reclaiming the territory would have been a lot more awkward for the Israeli military, surely? Call my knowledge superficial but at least I'm capable of basic critical thought.
October 9, 20231 yr Author 10 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: Broadcasting it is pretty insane Paraphrasing... "we will be forced to commit terrorist acts against innocent civilians by executing them"
October 9, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Procus said: No. You're full of crap on at least two points: 1. The PM didn't enact a check on the Supreme Court review based on reasonableness grounds - that was the Knesset. 2. The Supreme Court in Israel unilaterally and illegally usurped power under Aharon Barak in the 1990's and never relinquished it. This was never a problem until he became president of the Supreme Court. You seriously need to stop posting MSNBC talking points. You just look foolish, not to mention looking ignorant. I would never want my kids educated by a loon like you. The military themselves said it was an elimination of the checks and balances the SC had on the PM and parliament. Its not an MSNBC talking point, its quite literally what the Israeli citizens and the military are saying. If you bothered to read anything I posted you would see that the military is calling it a power grab...not MSNBC. You calling out anyone for posting talking points is rich. Reposting ish from right wing twitter accounts for 99% of your CVON posts.
October 9, 20231 yr Author 5 minutes ago, Gannan said: The military themselves said it was an elimination of the checks and balances the SC had on the PM and parliament. Its not an MSNBC talking point, its quite literally what the Israeli citizens and the military are saying. If you bothered to read anything I posted you would see that the military is calling it a power grab...not MSNBC. You calling out anyone for posting talking points is rich. Reposting ish from right wing twitter accounts for 99% of your CVON posts. We had a thread about this a while back. Of course Procus missed it or didn't believe it.
October 9, 20231 yr As I read this tweet, it's possible that Blinken is pushing Turkey to encourage the Palestinians to "ceasefire", however, if that's the case, even though a defendable sentiment, the State Department being the diplomatic wing of our government, it is a huge mistake and messaging fail. If it's not, if Blinken was, along with his terrorist supporting counterpart in Turkey, calling for both sides to ceasefire, then it's far more troubling.
October 9, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Diehardfan said: I don't want to see innocent people killed. They were warned to get out and I think they should listen. The "measured response" people are going to have to deal with what is coming. I'm not saying I agree with it, but if Tijuana was tossing rockets into San Diego for the last few decades and just launched an attack like this murdering and kidnapping women and children very few Americans would be saying let's make sure the response is measured. Gaza is a prison. Where are women and babies supposed to flee? If you think Egypt is going to accept millions of refugees, you're nuts. Contrast this with how the Russians dealt with Mariupol. They had the stones to go house to house in order to avoid civilians trapped there. Israel will do what the west does best, kill everything in sight from afar and then march in triumphantly over the corpses of women and children.
October 9, 20231 yr 4 hours ago, Imp81318 said: Are the Americans that have been or will be killed living along the strip though? Has that been confirmed or stated anywhere? How about our close friends that were visiting Israel for their nephew’s bar mitzvah this week? They’re 2nd (or maybe 3rd) generation born in America and have close family that still lives in Israel. Or my wife’s Israeli family, or my BIL’s Dad who was born in Israel, moved to America, became a citizen, and moved back to Israel years later. Are those people all just dumb for giving up the comfort of their American lives and inconsequential to this war on your eyes? Given how far the Hamas incursion got, they had to be close, and it's all occupied territory anyway. If they moved from the safety of America to live in an illegal settler colony on occupied Palestinian land, the like of which have been growing at a rate of knots recently, and which all Western governments including the US and UK have been explicitly telling Netanyahu to stop building, because it's stoking tensions to breaking point for the last 14 years, then I don't know what to tell you. They were sold a right of return, but they were being returned to land that Palestinians were being forcibly removed from and it's a simple fact that violence flares every few years, usually it's a few small unguided rockets into the suburbs but there's always a risk that it could be more serious and here we are. Of course it's not your relatives fault, but Netanyahu has been even at a most charitable reading careless of the effects of his actions for the last decade (even Israel's own newspapers have said this over the last 2 days) and now your relatives and hundreds and thousands of others are paying the price.
October 9, 20231 yr 20 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: We had a thread about this a while back. Of course Procus missed it or didn't believe it. Ahem, there were conflicting statements in that thread. Which ones did you decide have to be believed?
October 9, 20231 yr 19 minutes ago, Abracadabra said: Gaza is a prison. Where are women and babies supposed to flee? If you think Egypt is going to accept millions of refugees, you're nuts. Contrast this with how the Russians dealt with Mariupol. They had the stones to go house to house in order to avoid civilians trapped there. Israel will do what the west does best, kill everything in sight from afar and then march in triumphantly over the corpses of women and children. You seem to be ignoring the ever increasing use of targeted, tactical smart weapons. You also seem to ignore the Palestinians time worn tactic of staging their fighters and leadership among civilians they are using as human shields. This time, they also have Israeli hostages to use as human shields. Those are war crimes. A war that the Palestinians just started. Again.
October 9, 20231 yr 30 minutes ago, Abracadabra said: Gaza is a prison. Where are women and babies supposed to flee? If you think Egypt is going to accept millions of refugees, you're nuts. Contrast this with how the Russians dealt with Mariupol. They had the stones to go house to house in order to avoid civilians trapped there. Israel will do what the west does best, kill everything in sight from afar and then march in triumphantly over the corpses of women and children. Honestly, I don't know, but I'm done with them being human shields. Throw them out and bulldoze it. Want peace? That's the only way. I'm tired of people crying about measured responses and victims when they attack and then hide behind women and children. The death count is over 1200 people. Enough is enough. There will never be "peace" any other way.
October 9, 20231 yr 5 minutes ago, The_Omega said: You seem to be ignoring the ever increasing use of targeted, tactical smart weapons. You also seem to ignore the Palestinians time worn tactic of staging their fighters and leadership among civilians they are using as human shields. This time, they also have Israeli hostages to use as human shields. Those are war crimes. A war that the Palestinians just started. Again. The Ukrainians did the same thing. The Russians refused to take out those positions using tactics which endangered civilians. This kept number of non-combatant deaths to a minimum while increasing the danger to the Russian forces who fought block to block. Can you imagine the reaction if Russia had announced the cutting off of water and food to civilians? This is genocide.
October 9, 20231 yr 4 minutes ago, Abracadabra said: The Ukrainians did the same thing. The Russians refused to take out those positions using tactics which endangered civilians. This kept number of non-combatant deaths to a minimum while increasing the danger to the Russian forces who fought block to block. Can you imagine the reaction if Russia had announced the cutting off of water and food to civilians? This is genocide. No, it's war and F them. They took it to the level of killing and capturing 1200+ civilians including many women and children. They can go to hell now. They opened Pandora's Box and Israel should take every inch of their land and put an end to this. Have a problem with that? I don't give a f. If you have seen the videos of them torturing women and smashing a Filipino's head with a freaking hoe and don't get how this needs to end now then you aren't worth talking to. Palestinians should have policed themselves better. Too bad now.,
October 9, 20231 yr 6 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: Honestly, I don't know, but I'm done with them being human shields. Throw them out and bulldoze it. Want peace? That's the only way. I'm tired of people crying about measured responses and victims when they attack and then hide behind women and children. The death count is over 1200 people. Enough is enough. There will never be "peace" any other way. Why the hypocrasy? Why not maintain the claim you give a damn about genocide and war crimes. It will be costly to your own forces to practice what you preach and that's where the pretense of moral high ground ends.
October 9, 20231 yr 4 minutes ago, Abracadabra said: Why the hypocrasy? Why not maintain the claim you give a damn about genocide and war crimes. It will be costly to your own forces to practice what you preach and that's where the pretense of moral high ground ends. They crushed a Filipino's head with a freaking hoe and decapitated him with it. There is video of it. I don't give a f what happens next. They gave their people cameras to film it. It's not hard to find them killing children and many have seen the videos of women after they were done with them. I've seen a few today and I lost my compassion. Listen to the sound someone makes as that is happen. I don't give a f anymore. I'm sure I'll calm down in a few days but as of now I just don't.
October 9, 20231 yr Abra over here pretending like he gives an F about "genocide and war crimes". Go F right off dude.
October 9, 20231 yr 5 minutes ago, Abracadabra said: The Ukrainians did the same thing. The Russians refused to take out those positions using tactics which endangered civilians. This kept number of non-combatant deaths to a minimum while increasing the danger to the Russian forces who fought block to block. Can you imagine the reaction if Russia had announced the cutting off of water and food to civilians? This is genocide. So your defense of the Palestinians is to accuse the Ukrainians, whose invasion you've been defending since the start, of being just as bad as they are? The Ukrainians did not break through the Russian border, take Russian civilians hostage, and use them as human shields. The Palestinians did. The Palestinian leadership are the ones who have stated their intention to commit the genocide of Jews, not the other way around.
October 9, 20231 yr 4 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: No, it's war and F them. They took it to the level of killing and capturing 1200+ civilians including many women and children. They can go to hell now. They opened Pandora's Box and Israel should take every inch of their land and put an end to this. Have a problem with that? I don't give a f. Palestinians should have policed themselves better. Too bad now., Fair enough. At least you have the gumption to admit you're genocidal maniacs with no claim to any morally superior agency. Strike another pillar of the rules based order.
October 9, 20231 yr 4 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: They crushed a Filipino's head with a freaking hoe and decapitated him with it. There is video of it. I don't give a f what happens next. They gave their people cameras to film it. It's not hard to find them killing children and many have seen the videos of women after they were done with them. I've seen a few today and I lost my compassion. Listen to the sound someone makes as that is happen. I don't give a f anymore. They also took a young woman from a music festival, strip her naked, and, at best, broke all of her limbs, then killed her, then drove her naked body around the streets in the back of a pick up truck while Palestinians cheered them and spit on her mangled corpse. Barbaric.
October 9, 20231 yr 1 minute ago, The_Omega said: They also took a young woman from a music festival, strip her naked, and, at best, broke all of her limbs, then killed her, then drove her naked body around the streets in the back of a pick up truck while Palestinians cheered them and spit on her mangled corpse. Barbaric. Yeah, the girl with the tattoos. Her poor mother was on holding out hope but honestly....I hope she died instantly because I can't imagine what they have done to her if she lived longer. PS I read it was children spitting on her.
October 9, 20231 yr 1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said: Israel bombed the Rafah border crossing to make sure it can't be used to exit the country this afternoon but you go on with your massive world politics as filtered through American news channel opinions. Also of 456 incidents of death and injury examined after the 2018-19 marches a UN independent panel concluded that a total of 2 could be justified by fear of violence by the Israeli military. The Israeli army opened up with live rounds on kids throwing stones. If Hamas had enough militants to send thousands to the border crossing in 2018 the last two days of reclaiming the territory would have been a lot more awkward for the Israeli military, surely? Call my knowledge superficial but at least I'm capable of basic critical thought. They didn’t bomb the Rafah crossing. They bombed NEAR the crossing. And as of now the crossing has already reopened. I guess they didn’t cover that on the BBC. Something of note regarding the UN investigation. They didn’t even go there. Even Egypt told them to F off because of security concerns. How bad of a place is it that the "independent” UN team that was supposed to investigate couldn’t because it wasn’t safe for them to do so. Alas, they conducted their investigation from Turkey. Not in the West Bank. Not near the West Bank. Turkey. Also you keep saying independent council like it was some sort of impartial team of investigators. It wasn’t. They were picked by the President of the UN Human Rights Council, which at the time had so many countries that were into preserving human rights. Countries like Libya, Sudan, Brazil, Burkina Faso, Egypt, Hungary, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, China, Bangladesh, Bahrain, Pakistan, and Cuba. Also, the three people put on the commission were from Argentina, Kenya, and Bangladesh. You know, three countries with an unblemished track record in those departments. Even the "independent” report admitted multiple instances of violence committed towards IDF personnel. Regarding the UN, I can speak anecdotally about how useless they are in a conflict zone. I also know someone who was in a conflict zone as part of his official duties with his government job, and he spoke at length about how ineffective diplomats are in general about grasping the realities of other cultures and how things intermingle in a conflict zone, and are hugely ineffective at promoting meaningful positive change in a conflict zone Also, Hamas themselves admitted that over 90% of those killed during the protests were Hamas members. I guess the BBC missed that one, too. And, no. There’s no basic critical thought at all behind your writings. You assume there is. Probably due to Dunning-Kruger.
October 9, 20231 yr 12 minutes ago, The_Omega said: So your defense of the Palestinians is to accuse the Ukrainians, whose invasion you've been defending since the start, of being just as bad as they are? The Ukrainians did not break through the Russian border, take Russian civilians hostage, and use them as human shields. The Palestinians did. The Palestinian leadership are the ones who have stated their intention to commit the genocide of Jews, not the other way around. No, the Ukrainians brutalized their own population for years before the Russians were forced to step in and remove the NATO proxy guilty of genocide. I'm not defending what some Palestinians have done. I'm criticizing the reaction to it which is indiscriminate bombing and deliberate starvation tactics used against civilians. Israel has a right of self defense when they are unreasonably attacked but they don't have a right to mass murder.
October 9, 20231 yr 47 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said: Given how far the Hamas incursion got, they had to be close, and it's all occupied territory anyway. If they moved from the safety of America to live in an illegal settler colony on occupied Palestinian land, the like of which have been growing at a rate of knots recently, and which all Western governments including the US and UK have been explicitly telling Netanyahu to stop building, because it's stoking tensions to breaking point for the last 14 years, then I don't know what to tell you. They were sold a right of return, but they were being returned to land that Palestinians were being forcibly removed from and it's a simple fact that violence flares every few years, usually it's a few small unguided rockets into the suburbs but there's always a risk that it could be more serious and here we are. Of course it's not your relatives fault, but Netanyahu has been even at a most charitable reading careless of the effects of his actions for the last decade (even Israel's own newspapers have said this over the last 2 days) and now your relatives and hundreds and thousands of others are paying the price. How many garden sheds do you have? How many are you considering?
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