6 hours ago, EagleFan85 said:

That would be very rational and self preserving reaction by those locals too.

Sort of similar to what I have been saying Palestinians in Gaza should do.

Except thats not how it works when they will their own civilians if they resist…

19 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Except thats not how it works when they will their own civilians if they resist…

That is the horrible reality for everyone who has ever lived under a totalitarian or extremist regime. Revolution has happened countless times as people rose up against those regimes and faught for their freedom and a better quality of life.

Freedom often does not come without bloodshed. It's a sad reality. It's the reason I support our troops in all of their endeavors.

7 hours ago, Bill said:

My grandfather was a lifelong liberal and spent 20 years in the Marines. Got in as a Private, got out as a Captain. In Vietnam he was Civil Affairs and Psychological Operations. 
 

He was staunchly against intervention in Iraq. I remember when a news story came up about how US troops were having issues dealing with mortar attacks originating from civilian neighborhoods and how the US was limited in returning the salvo because of the threat of collateral damage. He said that the US should do counter battery fire anyway. I was surprised given his political leanings and his being against OIF, so I asked why. His response? After several incidents of counter battery fire, any insurgent setting up so much as a mortar tube in any neighborhood would immediately be dealt with by the locals, saying that, "Every woman would be taking their shoes off to beat the ish out of anyone trying to fire at US forces.”

 

He had a point. 

Other than the people setting up mortars are the ones with the weapons, and the women with shoes are on the ground with bullet holes, and the ones standing have learned a lesson.

1 hour ago, EagleFan85 said:

That is the horrible reality for everyone who has ever lived under a totalitarian or extremist regime. Revolution has happened countless times as people rose up against those regimes and faught for their freedom and a better quality of life.

Freedom often does not come without bloodshed. It's a sad reality. It's the reason I support our troops in all of their endeavors.

Revolutions sounds nice but usually fail quite badly. it naive to think they could pull that off in a culture where violence and oppression, particularly of women, are commonplace and unpunished.

2 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Revolutions sounds nice but usually fail quite badly. it naive to think they could pull that off in a culture where violence and oppression, particularly of women, are commonplace and unpunished.

Successful revolutions happen when one group of rich people convince the poor to overthrow another group of rich people.  

6 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Revolutions sounds nice but usually fail quite badly. it naive to think they could pull that off in a culture where violence and oppression, particularly of women, are commonplace and unpunished.

There are a great many things that can be said about Palestinian culture for sure.

Seems most of the supporters of Palestine don't even want to discuss a lot of that. At least you mentioned a few of the glaring red flags present in this particular group.

 

Just now, EagleFan85 said:

There are a great many things that can be said about Palestinian culture for sure.

Seems most of the supporters of Palestine don't even want to discuss a lot of that. At least you mentioned a few of the glaring red flags present in this particular group.

 

Like the way you don't want to discuss the mere possibility of Israel being heavy handed in their response?

Maybe it is not support for Palestine, as you pretend, and is instead, a disdain for violence against civilians?

14 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

Like the way you don't want to discuss the mere possibility of Israel being heavy handed in their response?

Maybe it is not support for Palestine, as you pretend, and is instead, a disdain for violence against civilians?

Violence against civilians is what started this.

If you want a response more in line with Oct 7th maybe killing, raping, pillaging, kidnapping was how Israel should have responded.

October 7th was not a simple terrorist attack it was an act of war. Throughout history when one group declares war on another that tends to illicit heavy responses. This is no different.

It does suck for everyone involved. President Biden made it pretty clear a week ago.

Reporter: Mr Biden, is there push for a ceasefire?

President Biden: Release the hostages and we'll talk.

Pretty cut and dry.

So that leads me to a question for you.

Do you think there should be a ceasefire even if Hamas does not release the hostages?

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said:

Violence against civilians is what started this.

If you want a response more in line with Oct 7th maybe killing, raping, pillaging, kidnapping was how Israel should have responded.

So your answer is for Israel to act like the people you are pounding the table against.

Nice position. You always talk out of both your faces?

2 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

So your answer is for Israel to act like the people you are pounding the table against.

Nice position. You always talk out of both your faces?

No.

I think Israel is responding to this in the only way they really can.

How are they responding?

This morning IDF forces took over another hospital. They brought with them doctors, medical supplies, incubators for babies and so on.

They are using combined combat operations and special forces to drive militants out of their holes.

11 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just pointing out the limited options the non-Hamas-supporting civilians have. Sometimes packing up and finding somewhere else to live isn't quite as easy as it sounds considering the circumstances. Like I said, it's not that different to those fleeing cartel controlled territory in central america. Just wondering if the same people who wring their hands about our southern border crisis would now see things in a different light given how tough of a situation some of these people find themselves in.

 

On 10/29/2023 at 10:48 AM, paco said:

They should try to stop being terrorists and maybe people will help them

 

1 minute ago, paco said:

 

 

Correct, and cartels should stop being murdery too, we agree, paco.

44 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said:

There are a great many things that can be said about Palestinian culture for sure.

Seems most of the supporters of Palestine don't even want to discuss a lot of that. At least you mentioned a few of the glaring red flags present in this particular group.

 

Do they support palestine? Or just dislike israel? Or dislike violence? Or embrace the victim mindset?

 

 

3 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

 

 

Such a heavy handed response.

Once Israel really establishes itself on the ground in Gaza I think you will begin to see a lot more rising up from Palestinians who don't support Hamas. It is already happening in smaller patches and some are throwing rocks at Hamas police.

As Israel gains control of these hospitals and thus eliminates the Hamas command tunnels underneath them more aid will begin to flow into Gaza as well.

For those claiming Israel is there to exterminate should ask yourselves this. Why are they taking over and resupplying hospitals with medical supplies, fuel, and pretty much anything else the Palestinians in those hospitals need?

 

57 minutes ago, EagleFan85 said:

Release the hostages and we'll talk.

If Hamas really wants a cease fire release the hostages.  Holding the hostages has not reduced Israel’s use of force.  Who knows how many are still alive.  Perhaps Hamas wants to sacrifice them to an Israel attack to gain more propaganda.

2 hours ago, Toastrel said:

Other than the people setting up mortars are the ones with the weapons, and the women with shoes are on the ground with bullet holes, and the ones standing have learned a lesson.

Yeah except that in Iraq at the time it was legal to possess one AK per household so yeah no. 

2 minutes ago, Bill said:

Yeah except that in Iraq at the time it was legal to possess one AK per household so yeah no. 

Islamic ladies, Kalashnikovs, and flying shoes.

Sounds like a party.

13 minutes ago, Talkingbirds said:

If Hamas really wants a cease fire release the hostages.  Holding the hostages has not reduced Israel’s use of force.  Who knows how many are still alive.  Perhaps Hamas wants to sacrifice them to an Israel attack to gain more propaganda.

They don't want a ceasefire.

1 hour ago, EagleFan85 said:

Violence against civilians is what started this.

Your problem is that you seem to think this just started on 10/07. 

25 minutes ago, Bill said:

Yeah except that in Iraq at the time it was legal to possess one AK per household so yeah no. 

So, they all had AKs.

 

Uh huh. Tell me more lies, Donnie.

12 hours ago, EagleFan85 said:

What happened on October 7th was not you average run of the mill terrorist attack. I think the point I was making had a lot more to do with the response under that particular circumstance. October 7th was a declaration of war and knowing that if you are living in said conditions do you stay put or do you make a move. A few hours after the attacks Israel responded with their own declaration of war. At that point you know this is going to be different than a few bombs here and there. Most of Gaza is essentially going to become the battlefield.

As I said, this was not your run of the mill terrorist attack.

As for shitting yourself, Im not suggesting that I dont understand what you are attempting to say here. Unless you been in it you have no idea what you would do. I partly agree and partly disagree. Remember in this case there was time between the attacks and when Israel started bombing. You were not making these decisions under fire so to speak. There was plenty of time to consider what was coming. You even had plenty of time to ISH in the bucket in the corner of your room rather than your pants. This way you can make a decision about what is best for you and your family while wearing a clean pair of shorts. Overall as you said, this conflict has become a part of life and thus you know very well that October 7th was not your average everyday run of the mill terrorist attack. 

 

 

Have you ever left the town, county, state you live in? Have you ever experienced life outside of the bubble you live in? 

1 minute ago, Toastrel said:

So, they all had AKs.

 

Uh huh. Tell me more lies, Donnie.

Yeah I got the info from the noted right wing rag The New York Times. 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/01/world/after-the-war-baghdad-iraqi-civilians-allowed-to-keep-assault-rifles.html

 

 

11 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Have you ever left the town, county, state you live in? Have you ever experienced life outside of the bubble you live in? 

Because 10/7 happens on the reg everywhere except for the town he lives in?  The conflict between Israel and the Palestinians (and other Muslim countries) has been going on for decades, but 10/7 was a significant escalation and your continued attempts to try to rationalize it look increasingly desperate.

13 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Your problem is that you seem to think this just started on 10/07. 

No. I don't.

But 10/7 is absolutely the beginning of the end for Hamas.