Let me defend the defense for a minute

[vaeagle2]

On 12/14/2023 at 1:20 PM, jmac+djaxallday said:

First off, we need to accept that this is arguably both the oldest and the slowest defense in the league.  That was probably true even before Avonte Maddox, a player whose importance has been widely overlooked, was lost back in week two.  With Bradley Roby and Kevin Byard now in the fold, the Eagles start five defensive players over the age of 30, including four in the secondary.  Save for Hasson Reddick and maybe a couple DTs, the Eagles lack speed at every position on the field - and on all three levels of the defense.  That puts a cap on how good your defense can be and limits the number of looks you can throw at opposing qbs.  Given everything that's been lost, (CGJ, Hargrave, Edwards, White, and now Maddox, Dean, & Evans) this team is built to win on offense and needs its offense performing at close to an elite level to seriously contend for a championship

However, I don't think things are not nearly as dire defensively as they've looked at times in the last couple weeks.  In 2023, your defense is often only as good as the opposing offense makes you look; and this team, in stark contrast to last season, has faced a gauntlet consisting of five of the best six or seven offenses in the league (plus Dallas again).  Throw in a Vikings offense that was top ten until Cousins' injury and a Rams offense that's been pretty good in its own right, and they've played 65-70% of their games against top competition and actually held up pretty well until recently.  Statistically, 3rd down and redzone defense (where they rank 32nd and 30th, respectively) have been a big problem, and while I'm not trying to downplay it, history would suggest that they're not as fatal as you might think.  Check where participants from the last five Super Bowls have ranked in 3rd down/redzone defense, and you'll see that it is not a death sentence:

2022 Chiefs - 13th/31st; Eagles - 14th/12th

2021 Rams - 21st/8th; Bengals - 22nd/19th

2020 Bucs - 14th/20th; Chiefs - 17th/32nd

2019 Chiefs - 11th/9th; Niners - 3rd/23rd

2018 Patriots - 16th/16th; Rams - 12th/14th

Redzone defense, as we can clearly see, can be fluky and doesn't necessarily reflect your true worth as a defense.  3rd down defense is more predictive of overall defensive success, but still far from prophecy.  Compare this year's Eagles team, which has surrendered roughly 5.4 yards per play, with the last five teams to finish last in 3rd down defense to see how they are a clear outlier:

2022 Bears - 6.1 yards/play allowed

2021 Chargers - 5.6

2020 Titans - 5.9

2019 Redskins - 5.7

2018 Bengals - 6.1

Those teams gave up about 5.9 yards per play on average, which would indicate that the Eagles 3rd down defense is due to improve to something more aligned with their other defensive numbers (which are about average).  That's hardly a guarantee given the elephant in the room that is young DC Sean Desai, but prior to the Bills game, I thought he was acquainting himself quite nicely.  It's not his fault that his old, overworked defense has been forced to endure three of the best offenses in the league (one on a short week and the other two coming off extended rests) in consecutive weeks.  The results of the last two games, in particular, should not come as a surprise given the body blows they absorbed in the two prior slugfests (74 plays in KC, 92 against Buffalo).

I'm not telling you everything is sunshine and roses.  Seattle's receivers are good enough to expose their deficiencies in the secondary.  Even if you do survive that one, you have to fly home for a Christmas day bout with a plucky Giants team and then chase Kyler around on short rest the following week.  These may not be good teams they're playing, but they're certainly good enough to beat the Eagles given the way they've been playing. 

Worse yet, they no longer control their own destiny for the #1 seed and therefore might not be able to recharge Wild Card weekend like they did last season.  And because they play a divisional opponent in the Giants to close the season, they may not be able to rest their starters that week and hold onto the division (IIRC, they would have to win the next three and Dallas would have to lose two of its next three to clinch the division by then).  The prospect of a weary Eagles team having to win two playoff games and then fly to Santa Clara to take on a fully charged Niners team does not sound promising.

I just don't think, if and when this team loses this postseason, that it will be because of the defense.  It might be poor play calling on offense that does them in, or Hurts not being fully healthy, or untimely miscues like we saw on Sunday.  It may also just be that they run into like a buzzsaw like the Niners and can't keep up.  But I still really like our top 6-7 D-lineman and have just enough faith in the vets on the second and third levels to not be the reason we lose.  Slay might not be the player he was, but he still has enough in the tank to hold down his side of the field.  Bradberry has been an up and down player his whole career, but I still think he'll show up when it matters.  I like what Byard and Cunningham have given us, and I'm still holding out hope that Maddox can return at some point.  It's been rough lately but it's a long season and every defense will have rough stretches.

 

[Vee]

18 hours ago, EagleVA said:

Just look at the rounds they're picking those players you listed, when you see you have glaring need you spend high round picks, there's a reason we have the worst S group, CB group LB group of players in the NF, the reason is because the positions has been ignored.....or do you think they've been addressed? 

Moreover, concerning your trades, you have to look at trades for the whole season, offseason, in-season, and draft day trades.

Look, here's where the NFL is.

If you can't put pressure in the QB, the Safeties and CBs can't cover anyone for more than 5 seconds.

You can line up probowlers in the backfield, but without pressure up front, the offense gets open in seconds.  Your only hope is to limit the amount of seconds the QB has to process what he's seeing.

[opa-opa]

Bye bye Desai. I dont really know if it was all his fault or not, but at this point almost anyone else might do a better job.

[judunno]

22 minutes ago, opa-opa said:

Bye bye Desai. I dont really know if it was all his fault or not, but at this point almost anyone else might do a better job.

He clearly lost the locker room. Byard came in on some wth are we doing here.

[opa-opa]

This defense has been playing scared and soft especially the back 7. I dunno if changing playcallers will make a huge difference. 

[EazyEaglez]

For this defense to be this inept you have to view coaching as a serious part of their issues. Desai has stunk up the joint. His adjustments have not been enough and his early game plans are just bad. 

[EagleVA]

3 hours ago, opa-opa said:

Bye bye Desai. I dont really know if it was all his fault or not, but at this point almost anyone else might do a better job.

I doubt Patricia does better, I've never been impressed with him during his DC days in New England, it may look good from here on out because of the competition but trust me, Patricia is sheet.

[EagleVA]

19 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

For this defense to be this inept you have to view coaching as a serious part of their issues. Desai has stunk up the joint. His adjustments have not been enough and his early game plans are just bad. 

I think it's more talent than anything else, there's been a lack of talent on that side of the ball for years now, all one has to do is look at Schwartz in Cleveland, better talent, better results, same coaching.

[EazyEaglez]

42 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

I think it's more talent than anything else, there's been a lack of talent on that side of the ball for years now, all one has to do is look at Schwartz in Cleveland, better talent, better results, same coaching.

Don’t see this lack of talent excuse. This defense was basically top ten last year. Now they’re bottom everything. You don’t have that type of drop off just from a lack of talent. 

[EagleVA]

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Don’t see this lack of talent excuse. This defense was basically top ten last year. Now they’re bottom everything. You don’t have that type of drop off just from a lack of talent. 

Stats can be misleading, that top ten stat was due to two main reasons, inept offenses due to a weak schedule and an offense that dominated the TOP for most games..

 

[EagleVA]

5 hours ago, Vee said:

Look, here's where the NFL is.

If you can't put pressure in the QB, the Safeties and CBs can't cover anyone for more than 5 seconds.

You can line up probowlers in the backfield, but without pressure up front, the offense gets open in seconds.  Your only hope is to limit the amount of seconds the QB has to process what he's seeing.

There's some truth in what you're saying but 5 seconds is a long time depending on the matchups, the problem with the Eagles secondary is they can't matchup with anyone, QBs have multiple receivers running open because we have no man corners, everybody is 5-10 yards off the LOS.

Moreover, coverage is only half the problem, the other half is tackling is piss piss from the DBs.

It's clearly a lack of talent, they're not drafting the DBs with the needed traits to be successful in the NFL, they need to look for DBs that excel in man coverage, have long speed to recover when they're beat, and are sure/aggressive tacklers supporting the run and in the pass game, the Eagles DBs have none of those traits.

Scouting and/or not listening to the scouts seems to be an issue, you can't keep missing on picks because you'll never assemble a complete team, whe you finally fix one are, another group is approaching over the hill status. 

 

[Vee]

14 hours ago, EagleVA said:

There's some truth in what you're saying but 5 seconds is a long time depending on the matchups, the problem with the Eagles secondary is they can't matchup with anyone, QBs have multiple receivers running open because we have no man corners, everybody is 5-10 yards off the LOS.

Moreover, coverage is only half the problem, the other half is tackling is piss piss from the DBs.

It's clearly a lack of talent, they're not drafting the DBs with the needed traits to be successful in the NFL, they need to look for DBs that excel in man coverage, have long speed to recover when they're beat, and are sure/aggressive tacklers supporting the run and in the pass game, the Eagles DBs have none of those traits.

Scouting and/or not listening to the scouts seems to be an issue, you can't keep missing on picks because you'll never assemble a complete team, whe you finally fix one are, another group is approaching over the hill status. 

 

This is an accurate take.

[Mat]

On 12/15/2023 at 7:28 AM, toolg said:

Some defense here: 

Not only old and slow. They are tired too. 

Not good... Except they will be battle tested by the time the playoffs roll around. Let's hope they have something left in the tank.

Something that would also really help the D is the offense. In the two games the Eagles D dominated, the Eagles killed their opponent in TOP. The Bucs game the Eagles had the ball for almost 39 minutes and Dolphins game was close to 37 minutes. Meanwhile the Cowboys had the ball for about 36.5 minutes in their last game vs the Eagles. Some of it is self inflicted by the defense, but if the offense can keep them fresh it has been night and day in their performance. 

[GeorgeM37]

This defense has been THE worst I have ever seen from an Eagles team, bar none....I truly do not remember an Eagles defense that has been this cringeworthy to watch and its amazing that they go from the top to the bottom in just one year....that HAS to be the coaching along with that frickin bend but don't break philosophy....I dont think Juan Castillo was this bad....its amazing that I would love to see Gannon back rather than Desai continue to stink up the joint....

[manz2821]

2 hours ago, GeorgeM37 said:

This defense has been THE worst I have ever seen from an Eagles team, bar none....I truly do not remember an Eagles defense that has been this cringeworthy to watch and its amazing that they go from the top to the bottom in just one year....that HAS to be the coaching along with that frickin bend but don't break philosophy....I dont think Juan Castillo was this bad....its amazing that I would love to see Gannon back rather than Desai continue to stink up the joint....

and to think we all celebrated when Gannon left for good reason.  Desai has been severely overmatched.