2023 = 2018 All Over Again

[time2rock]

Both seasons coming off a Super Bowl appearance.  Both seasons lose our OC (ironically both times to the Colts).  And in both cases the HC makes the absolute wrong hires to fill the open slot (this year includes the hire of a new DC as well who, for all intents and purposes, was the wrong hire).  With a window as wide open as you can possibly get, why not hire seasoned veteran coaches into those roles who have a wealth of experience with play calling, play design, developing game plans, etc.  In both cases we promote from within a completely inexperienced coach to the position and watch the offense go into the tank.  Quite a bit of arrogance to think we could overcome the departure of Steichen and everything would be status quo (same that was said about Doug for promoting Groh).  Once again, a promising season gets flushed down the toilet because of that arrogance.  And once again we are left with "what could have been".  

EDIT:  adding the below photo (found shortly after starting this thread) as it perfectly sums up the topic

[RunItBAck]

9 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Both seasons coming off a Super Bowl appearance.  Both seasons lose our OC (ironically both times to the Colts).  And in both cases the HC makes the absolute wrong hires to fill the open slot (this year includes the hire of a new DC as well who, for all intents and purposes, was the wrong hire).  With a window as wide open as you can possibly get, why not hire seasoned veteran coaches into those roles who have a wealth of experience with play calling, play design, developing game plans, etc.  In both cases we promote from within a completely inexperienced coach to the position and watch the offense go into the tank.  Quite a bit of arrogance to think we could overcome the departure of Steichen and everything would be status quo (same that was said about Doug for promoting Groh).  Once again, a promising season gets flushed down the toilet because of that arrogance.  And once again we are left with "what could have been".  

you think a couple coaching changes is the result we see? 

It's a blend of aging players declining, young players not developing, and not filling holes from free agency. 

Having Bill Belichick at DC wouldn't fix the fact that Bradberry has fallen off after a good first year with his team. Did it with the panthers, giants, and now the Eagles. We lack talent and coaching now...team is mid

[LacesOut]

Good post, poignant observations.

With the small window the Eagles have, they made bad decisions on Coaches and Players. It's now costing them.  

[EaglesAddict]

I think pretty much everyone was onboard with Johnson as being the best and most logical choice.  He may have been given an OC job somewhere else if they didn't promote him.  I actually place more of the offensive failures on Sirianni...his design is too basic, lacks any innovation.  Maybe Steichen had some influence on the designs of plays or maybe this team just caught lightning in a bottle last year where talent won-out over scheme.  Now, defenses know how to play against them and the combo of Siri, Hurts and BJ just aren't good enough to come up with a counter.  There are some parallels to 2018, for sure.  But, BJ seemed to be a better choice than Pederson picking Groh.  

They did have an experienced DC lined up, as you know, but got screwed by Gannon.  So, they at least tried for that on that side of the ball.  It's also likely why they brought Patricia on board in the first place.

I think Sirianni is the main issue.  The talent on offense is being wasted by his lack of creative play designs.  Either that, or he designs the offense he does because he doesn't have faith that Hurts can run anything more complex.  And watching Hurts continually not be able to stand tall in the pocket, go through progressions, find the open guy, etc...that could certainly be part of it.  But a better, more creative offensive designer and play caller would be able to come up with something to get Hurts going.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

There’s a lot of quite scary comparisons with that 2018 but yeah you are right bud it does feel very familiar.

Time to start Mariota and go down the back up QB route again 😂.

[time2rock]

21 minutes ago, RunItBAck said:

you think a couple coaching changes is the result we see? 

It's a blend of aging players declining, young players not developing, and not filling holes from free agency. 

Having Bill Belichick at DC wouldn't fix the fact that Bradberry has fallen off after a good first year with his team. Did it with the panthers, giants, and now the Eagles. We lack talent and coaching now...team is mid

Oh I definitely think it is much more than the change in coordinators.  Yes aging players on the decline (same as 2018 … Jeffery, Peters, etc).  A QB that clearly regressed.  This season mirrors 2018 in so many ways.  

[EagleJoe8]

As much as I wanted to buy into the idea that Howie has gotten his ish together with regard to team building, I feel that’s coming full circle again. He can do ok picking in the top ten, of the first couple rounds, but aside from that, way too many misses. This team doesn’t get enough from draft classes. 
 

Another thing, in 2017, Howie deserved the EOY award. His transactions that year were mostly one home run after another. One of those was the mid season acquisition of Ajayi. Ajayi made a nice contribution and helped a strong team become a bit stronger. It’s almost like that went to his head, because his mid season trades since haven’t been nearly as productive. Golden Tate, Gerard Avery, Robert Quinn, and now Byard. Very little contribution from mid season acquisitions. 

[LacesOut]

Hurts is way worse this year. Totally has regressed. He's a turn over machine. I watch the games and just wait for it to happen.

[judunno]

38 minutes ago, RunItBAck said:

you think a couple coaching changes is the result we see? 

It's a blend of aging players declining, young players not developing, and not filling holes from free agency. 

Having Bill Belichick at DC wouldn't fix the fact that Bradberry has fallen off after a good first year with his team. Did it with the panthers, giants, and now the Eagles. We lack talent and coaching now...team is mid

Even with all that... this offense should be DESTROYING PEOPLE. It's freaking loaded.

[Gannan]

In 2018 we had one of the best coaches in the NFL. It was our QB who was horrible. Now its the opposite. 

[NOTW]

30 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Oh I definitely think it is much more than the change in coordinators.  Yes aging players on the decline (same as 2018 … Jeffery, Peters, etc).  A QB that clearly regressed.  This season mirrors 2018 in so many ways.  

 

There are issues ranging from small to medium to large, and I think the largest issue is Siri and BJ game planning, play design and play calling.  While they have made some smaller adjustments like adding more motion pre-snap, and mixing in some more runs and being committed to the run on certain drives, they then abandon the run and force deep passes to AJ in triple coverage and keep forcing designed QB runs.  When your QB is so severely ill that he flies separate and almost doesn't play, you then run him to death?  The 1st play of the game was a designed QB run. It's like they are trying too hard to show he's fine.  Hurts had some great throws from the pocket and Aikman shared a stat that Hurts leads the league in completion percentage from the pocket.  Yet they keep running him.

The offense has great weapons that aren't utilized properly.  This offense should be scoring 30+ points a game, making it easier on the defense.  They should be running to both RBs with a lot more carries and mixing up the type of run plays.  They should use more short quick passes and RB screens or check downs.  Siri has said repeatedly they coach Hurts to specifically not go through extra reads, they want him to target their top 3.  They don't even care that their backup TEs are only blockers and not pass catchers.  That's coaching.

On defense, they have a mix of top talent at certain positions, scrubs and undrafted rookies at others and aging vets.  They invested in D line and 2 veteran corners.  They didn't like Desai and lost faith in him, it was said he lacked confidence and the players weren't buying in.  We'll see what difference Patricia makes through the rest of the season.  But he's also working with lesser talent in the back 7 and the D line was built for dominance and has not been performing.

They need a starting DE, competent LBs to start with.  At corner, they might be stuck with contracts to Slay and Bradberry and have to coach up Ringo, Ricks, and whoever else returns (and what will Isaiah Rodgers bring after a year suspension?).  Desai isn't the one to coach them up, so maybe Patricia will?

[D.WATSfromda757]

Hurts came on this team spreading the ball around to the likes of Reagor, Fulgham, Ward, and Whiteside. He’s been seeing the field fine for three years. Now all of a sudden you people think he can’t? Kind of a simple minded take…regardless of what it supposedly looks like on supposed "tape.” 

[NOTW]

30 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

As much as I wanted to buy into the idea that Howie has gotten his ish together with regard to team building, I feel that’s coming full circle again. He can do ok picking in the top ten, of the first couple rounds, but aside from that, way too many misses. This team doesn’t get enough from draft classes. 
 

Another thing, in 2017, Howie deserved the EOY award. His transactions that year were mostly one home run after another. One of those was the mid season acquisition of Ajayi. Ajayi made a nice contribution and helped a strong team become a bit stronger. It’s almost like that went to his head, because his mid season trades since haven’t been nearly as productive. Golden Tate, Gerard Avery, Robert Quinn, and now Byard. Very little contribution from mid season acquisitions. 

Howie has built an offense mostly through the draft that is loaded and should be scoring 30+ points every game easily.  The coaching is the main problem on offense, they miss Steichen badly.  Swift is playing great, they don't feed him enough.  Gainwell has been hated at times but he's made a lot of plays.  They should be dominating on offense, which would make the defense job easier and put the other team in more passing situations and defense could focus on pressuring the QB.

On defense, he invested in DTs and 2 veteran corners.  Sweat is a good DE but BG is now a part-time rotational player they need another starting DE.  Carter and Reddick get double teamed.  The other LBs are so bad in coverage the teams just find open receivers all over the middle and short routes.  On paper, returning Slay and Bradberry should have been solid but Bradberry regressed badly and Slay isn't making as many big plays but he is playing well.  He shouldn't have let both Edwards and White go in free agency.  They relied on Dean at LB who was unproven and had a concerning injury which is why he fell in the draft.  Blankenship was promising despite being an UDFA, but Edmunds sucked and they had a 3rd round rookie in Brown would need time to develop.  Byard was a band aid veteran who had regressed, the Titans are a 5 win team and got rid of him.  

Howie chose where to invest, and he drafted well early but doesn't do well in the mid rounds.  No 1st round corner in 22 years, LB in 44 years, safety in 54 years. He needs to start finding those guys in the 1st round not just DTs every year.

[birdman#12]

1) Good offensive coordinators recognize and understand the talent at their disposal and design plays and make play calls that take advantage of those talents.  They also know how to make play calls depending on the situation (time, yardage needed, defensive personnel etc....)

2) They will seek mismatches, take easy yards, call plays that set up other plays late in the drive or game.....They rarely use a throw away down.

3) They game plan for their opponent......targeting weaknesses, identifying mismatches and can adjust to short field red zone play calling.

4) They don't continually call plays that clearly don't work or call empty backfields that tell the defense your passing.

Brian Johnson has shown little to no improvement for the 1st 3 things but is guilty of #4 constantly.

The eagles are 14 games in.......lost the 1st round bye and the division lead.  If Sirianni or Roseman don't fix this offense, and it can be fixed, the season is doomed for a 1st round exit.

 

 

 

[Kz!]

3 hours ago, D.WATSfromda757 said:

Hurts came on this team spreading the ball around to the likes of Reagor, Fulgham, Ward, and Whiteside. He’s been seeing the field fine for three years. Now all of a sudden you people think he can’t? Kind of a simple minded take…regardless of what it supposedly looks like on supposed "tape.” 

Meh, I'm not sure "seeing the field" has ever been or will be a strength of his. Last year we were unstoppable because our run game was elite, and a big part of that was Jalen using his legs on read option plays. The threat of our running game made our passing attack elite as well. It was never Jalen progressing through 3 reads to hit his fourth option on a dime. 

This year, our running game has been mediocre mostly because of a combination of Jalen being a step slower because of injury for most of the season and because of a lack of creative playcalls, and Jalen has seemingly taken a step back because of that. 

[D.WATSfromda757]

1 minute ago, Kz! said:

Meh, I'm not sure "seeing the field" has ever been or will be a strength of his. Last year we were unstoppable because our run game was elite, and a big part of that was Jalen using his legs on read option plays. The threat of our running game made our passing attack elite as well. It was never Jalen progressing through 3 reads to hit his fourth option on a dime. 

This year, our running game has been mediocre mostly because of a combination of Jalen being a step slower because of injury for most of the season and because of a lack of creative playcalls, and Jalen has seemingly taken a step back because of that. 

He came on this team when Wentz couldn’t move the offense. He checked down, made his progression, threw with anticipation and got heat off of the olines back…because EVERYONE for the whole season tried to blame everyone but Wentz. How soon we forget. That run game doesn’t exist without Hurts. AND as "the man” he may feel he can  have his "favorites” but now all that has caught up with this team, and now they have to play "the right way”…we’ll see if they have the actual coaching for that on offense.

[Kz!]

33 minutes ago, D.WATSfromda757 said:

He came on this team when Wentz couldn’t move the offense. He checked down, made his progression, threw with anticipation and got heat off of the olines back…because EVERYONE for the whole season tried to blame everyone but Wentz. How soon we forget. That run game doesn’t exist without Hurts. AND as "the man” he may feel he can  have his "favorites” but now all that has caught up with this team, and now they have to play "the right way”…we’ll see if they have the actual coaching for that on offense.

Ha, Hurts played better than Wentz when he got the opportunity but he was thoroughly mediocre his rookie and sophomore seasons. He broke out last year, but, again, I think that had more to do with our dominant run game than Hurts quickly diagnosing opposing defenses, and going through his progressions to find the third or fourth option.

Not taking anything away from him, he was great last year and I'm still bullish on his future, but I just don't think his game has been about shredding opposing defenses by quickly making reads and that's OK, not every successful QB does that. 

[D.WATSfromda757]

6 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Ha, Hurts played better than Wentz when he got the opportunity but he was thoroughly mediocre his rookie and sophomore seasons. He broke out last year, but, again, I think that had more to do with our dominant run game than Hurts quickly diagnosing opposing defenses, and going through his progressions to find the third or fourth option.

Not taking anything away from him, he was great last year and I'm still bullish on his future, but I just don't think his game has been about shredding opposing defenses by quickly making reads and that's OK, not every successful QB does that. 

Sophomore season? Run game? Im gonna just agree to disagree, and keep it moving.

[GreenMachine]

6 hours ago, time2rock said:

Both seasons coming off a Super Bowl appearance.  Both seasons lose our OC (ironically both times to the Colts).  And in both cases the HC makes the absolute wrong hires to fill the open slot (this year includes the hire of a new DC as well who, for all intents and purposes, was the wrong hire).  With a window as wide open as you can possibly get, why not hire seasoned veteran coaches into those roles who have a wealth of experience with play calling, play design, developing game plans, etc.  

In all fairness when you go to the SB most other teams that are hiring coaches and co-ordinators have pretty much taken all the known good ones while you are still playing meaningful games. Whatever scrubs that are left is who you get to choose from. Not saying they couldn't have made better choices but hindsight is easier than forsight. Maybe they can bring back reich although he hasn't done jack since he was here, then again some people are just better at the co-ordinator level so who knows. On the plus side we made it to 2 super bowls in 5 years and won 1. 

[Kz!]

33 minutes ago, D.WATSfromda757 said:

Sophomore season? Run game? Im gonna just agree to disagree, and keep it moving.

Those concepts confuse you? Sophomore season aka 2nd season. Run game as in our rushing attack... not sure the hangup, but OK.

[Soumak]

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

There’s a lot of quite scary comparisons with that 2018 but yeah you are right bud it does feel very familiar.

Time to start Mariota and go down the back up QB route again 😂.

I think its time for Tanner McKee. i've been saying all along he is the second coming of Tom Brady! Both their Names start with T. They were drafted in late rounds! the similarities are striking. 

[D.WATSfromda757]

7 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Those concepts confuse you? Sophomore season aka 2nd season. Run game as in our rushing attack... not sure the hangup, but OK.

You still wanna talk, huh? What was the stellar run game before Hurts? When did this signature "run game” take shape? What are you calling "sophomore season”…as a starter or Eagle.. and that is mediocre compared to WHAT? Ain’t no hangups that’s why I tried to keep it nice and short with no insults.

[Kz!]

1 minute ago, D.WATSfromda757 said:

You still wanna talk, huh? What was the stellar run game before Hurts? When did this signature "run game” take shape? What are you calling "sophomore season”…as a starter or Eagle.. and that is mediocre compared to WHAT? Ain’t no hangups that’s why I tried to keep it nice and short with no insults.

Oh, thanks for not insulting me. It's just a discussion about a football player, I think we can both refrain from insulting one another. I didn't imply Hurts wasn't a big reason the running game took off when he got the start. He was definitely a huge part of that. 

And, yes, by sophomore season I meant his second year as a pro. He was mediocre in just overall performance in general his rookie season and first year as a pro. That's not meant to be a slight, just a factual statement. There were a ton of questions if he could be the guy going forward heading into his third season. He was pretty bad as a passer as a rookie. His second year, he improved, but we had a super-soft schedule and played mediocre football en route to a first round exit in the playoffs where we got rolled by the Bucs with Hurts having an awful game. 

His third season he was great, but again, that year we had an insane running game that definitely helped him as a passer. His strength isn't diagnosing the defense and getting to his third/fourth/fifth read, and I'm not sure it ever will be. 

[Sack that QB]

Reminds me more of 2014 than 2018. 2014 the team was 9-3 and missed the playoffs. They similarly lost 3 straight games to end the season and the whole year never looked right and everyone knew they were a fraud 9-3 and then got exposed at the end of the season.

[D.WATSfromda757]

15 hours ago, Kz! said:

Oh, thanks for not insulting me. It's just a discussion about a football player, I think we can both refrain from insulting one another. I didn't imply Hurts wasn't a big reason the running game took off when he got the start. He was definitely a huge part of that. 

And, yes, by sophomore season I meant his second year as a pro. He was mediocre in just overall performance in general his rookie season and first year as a pro. That's not meant to be a slight, just a factual statement. There were a ton of questions if he could be the guy going forward heading into his third season. He was pretty bad as a passer as a rookie. His second year, he improved, but we had a super-soft schedule and played mediocre football en route to a first round exit in the playoffs where we got rolled by the Bucs with Hurts having an awful game. 

His third season he was great, but again, that year we had an insane running game that definitely helped him as a passer. His strength isn't diagnosing the defense and getting to his third/fourth/fifth read, and I'm not sure it ever will be. 

That’s what I’m saying, I think as soon as he got on the field in a full start or series, not even just as the starter..he looked good, but got continuously stigmatized from preconceptions. Talking heads in the media were wrong about Hurts and never wanted to admit it. Go look at the games he came in.. I think the AZ and NO game, Niners, Giants games. Look at who he was throwing to and the drops. It was his ability to deliver the ball to whatever "talent” was here, is why I think they took the calculated risk to move off of Wentz. But that was with more well rounded offensive minded coaching in the building. Since I see you mean sophomore season as second year as a pro…this team was 4-11 and then 9-7😂 he got em to a playoff with the future SB champs when they had no business being there. I don’t think the coaches were prepared for the reality taking place and he wasn’t either…but he got there. They had to scream at Siri since the beginning to run the ball the first 3-4 games of his first two season. He’s still NOT committed to running the ball or offense by what works and has worked…the rest of the league seems to have taken a page out of the 2022 Eagles playbook while the current Eagles have taken a page out of the Chargers of the 70s playbook.