Oline delusion

[BornGreen]

We keep hearing that this Oline is elite, one of the best… so much that we continue to believe it!  We continue to hold on to the Oline of yesteryear.  We all scream run the ball run the ball but what did the Oline do for us when we ran last night or even in the last 7 games!  They were abysmal for that entire stretch!  They were horrid at giving Hurts anytime  last night as well ( no excuse for Hurts) but this Oline has been struggling as well as the defense has.  This entire team is in jeopardy of full failure next year unless they get some coaching. I can’t believe Jeff stoutland let this oline corrode like this. 

[The Norseman]

Not the biggest problem on this team, but they definitely did not play elite as a unit over the last two months. All that being said, I have confidence that Stout can get it sorted out. We can't fix everything in the offseason, and this is one area we are just going to have to trust gets fixed on its own.  

[mayanh8]

The mistakes and penalties are offensive line issues. That's just fundamental football.

But the disfunction at QB, lack of identity, and total mismanagement of the team has a negative impact on every aspect of this offense. Everyone will look better with a coaching staff that's even a little competent. 

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

The O-line certainly dipped in performance and had a lot of stupid penalties during that losing stretch toward the end...but just because Swift gets stuffed a few times doesn't mean you abandon the run the rest of the game.  That's inexcusable.  I mean they can't even call a run play correctly.  Run Swift up the middle in I-formation, not Gainwell to the outside in shotgun.  

[Mike030270]

Stoutland seems to be untouchable even though the Oline hasn't been good for a lot of the season. Plus he's the run game coordinator 

[Kz!]

1 minute ago, [TSM]_PimpDaddyPain said:

The O-line certainly dipped in performance and had a lot of stupid penalties during that losing stretch toward the end...but just because Swift gets stuffed a few times doesn't mean you abandon the run the rest of the game.  That's inexcusable. 

Yep, especially when we gashed the exact same defense on the ground in the regular season with the same personnel. We open the game with two successful runs, maybe giving them flashbacks to the Week 3 matchup, and then we throw the ball a gazillion times in a row on our next 3 or 4 drives. Maddening. 

[Kz!]

1 minute ago, Mike030270 said:

Stoutland seems to be untouchable even though the Oline hasn't been good for a lot of the season. Plus he's the run game coordinator 

As well he should be. He's one of the best in the business.

[Mat]

16 minutes ago, BornGreen said:

We keep hearing that this Oline is elite, one of the best… so much that we continue to believe it!  We continue to hold on to the Oline of yesteryear.  We all scream run the ball run the ball but what did the Oline do for us when we ran last night or even in the last 7 games!  They were abysmal for that entire stretch!  They were horrid at giving Hurts anytime  last night as well ( no excuse for Hurts) but this Oline has been struggling as well as the defense has.  This entire team is in jeopardy of full failure next year unless they get some coaching. I can’t believe Jeff stoutland let this oline corrode like this. 

The Bucs were lining up with 6 guys at the line of scrimmage daring them to throw the ball and beat the blitz.  They also miss Hurts ability to be able to tuck and run and be a threat which made the RB's life easier getting to the second level. Hurts looked slow when trying to take off compared to last year and with that many guys rushing into the backfield it makes it pretty difficult for the RB to do much. The bonehead penalties are on them and they had far too many at times this year. 

The other thing to consider is they lost Seumalo and inserted Jurgens into the RG spot. Seumalo was an excellent lineman and they had someone with less experience playing out of position as his replacement.  

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

Make me sick to think of the OLine next year without Kelce.  Jurgens got beat around too much last night to believe he can take that spot and anchor the line.  

[Utebird]

35 minutes ago, BornGreen said:

We keep hearing that this Oline is elite, one of the best… so much that we continue to believe it!  We continue to hold on to the Oline of yesteryear.  We all scream run the ball run the ball but what did the Oline do for us when we ran last night or even in the last 7 games!  They were abysmal for that entire stretch!  They were horrid at giving Hurts anytime  last night as well ( no excuse for Hurts) but this Oline has been struggling as well as the defense has.  This entire team is in jeopardy of full failure next year unless they get some coaching. I can’t believe Jeff stoutland let this oline corrode like this. 

Yup 

Mailata and Dickerson were dominant last year in the run game and even early this year but down the stretch they were meh...

Kelce as good as he is and was had an average season by his standards, hes still one of the best in the league but he wasnt as dominant 

Jurgens couldnt stay healthy and Lane per usual was dinged up as well.

Honestly im not sure how lane or dickerson made the pro bowl, they werent bad this year just not dominant.

With Kelce gone id guess steen gets first crack at RG with Jurgens sliding to center but mailata and Dickerson need to return to form.

[seengreen]

That line is top 10, not top 5. They don't practice being nasty and aggressive. 

 

They need to draft a RT and a swing G/LT. I think the C is already on the team. 

[NOTW]

50 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Stoutland seems to be untouchable even though the Oline hasn't been good for a lot of the season. Plus he's the run game coordinator 

He's the best O line coach in the league. This whole team has regressed this year.  What does the "run game coordinator" mean though?  He's working with the OC and HC to design running plays.  They had a 1,000 yard rusher who we complained didn't get the ball enough.  He doesn't call the plays, the OC does.

[weko]

Oline is only as strong as its weakest link, that being Jurgens.  He wasn't that good at OG.  Hopefully he will be good at his natural C position next year.  But we need to take away 1 pick from the D overhaul and invest a 3rd rounder on a starting RG.  

[weko]

33 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup 

Mailata and Dickerson were dominant last year in the run game and even early this year but down the stretch they were meh...

Kelce as good as he is and was had an average season by his standards, hes still one of the best in the league but he wasnt as dominant 

Jurgens couldnt stay healthy and Lane per usual was dinged up as well.

Honestly im not sure how lane or dickerson made the pro bowl, they werent bad this year just not dominant.

With Kelce gone id guess steen gets first crack at RG with Jurgens sliding to center but mailata and Dickerson need to return to form.

Steen looks like he could be a good OT but we don't have that position available for him to play.  We'll see if he can play OG but we have to anticipate

he might not be able to transition there.

[NOTW]

The premise is correct though: they weren't the dominant elite O line despite the perception.  I said it all year: the pass blocking was awful at times.  Many times Hurts was running for his life.  People criticize Hurts for bailing too quick, but he very often had a defender immediately in his face.  When a QB doesn't trust the O line he is moving out quickly.

They are better at run blocking, but the coaches didn't stick to the run enough to establish things.

They had a 1,000 yard rusher.

[NOTW]

5 minutes ago, weko said:

Oline is only as strong as its weakest link, that being Jurgens.  He wasn't that good at OG.  Hopefully he will be good at his natural C position next year.  But we need to take away 1 pick from the D overhaul and invest a 3rd rounder on a starting RG.  

Or sign a free agent guard and focus on defense in the draft.

[Devaster]

1 hour ago, Mike030270 said:

Stoutland seems to be untouchable even though the Oline hasn't been good for a lot of the season. Plus he's the run game coordinator 

We run the ball?

[Devaster]

4 minutes ago, NOTW said:

The premise is correct though: they weren't the dominant elite O line despite the perception.  I said it all year: the pass blocking was awful at times.  Many times Hurts was running for his life.  People criticize Hurts for bailing too quick, but he very often had a defender immediately in his face.  When a QB doesn't trust the O line he is moving out quickly.

They are better at run blocking, but the coaches didn't stick to the run enough to establish things.

They had a 1,000 yard rusher.

I still think a lot of that is scheme though. They have 2 elite guys and 2 very good guys on the line and then Jurgens. They have a ton of talent at receiver and RB. The offensive scheme isn't setting anyone up for success. They don't scheme people open and make it easy for Hurts in the pocket.

[weko]

2 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Or sign a free agent guard and focus on defense in the draft.

That would be nice but we don't the money for a good one, should one shake free.  Getting under the cap could be a huge challenge if Graham, Cox, Kelce, Bradbury

Maddox leave and if they try to add picks by moving Sweat or the other DE.  Howie has kicked the can down the road for many years and we may have to pay down that debt if 

those numerous older expensive players leave.  

 

2 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Or sign a free agent guard and focus on defense in the draft.

o

[Mike030270]

12 minutes ago, NOTW said:

He's the best O line coach in the league. This whole team has regressed this year.  What does the "run game coordinator" mean though?  He's working with the OC and HC to design running plays.  They had a 1,000 yard rusher who we complained didn't get the ball enough.  He doesn't call the plays, the OC does.

We don't know what he does but that's his title

1 minute ago, Devaster said:

We run the ball?

Exactly 

[NOTW]

38 minutes ago, weko said:

That would be nice but we don't the money for a good one, should one shake free.  Getting under the cap could be a huge challenge if Graham, Cox, Kelce, Bradbury

Maddox leave and if they try to add picks by moving Sweat or the other DE.  Howie has kicked the can down the road for many years and we may have to pay down that debt if 

those numerous older expensive players leave.  

They won't be moving Sweat, I don't know why I've seen some fans suggest this.  He's the only starting DE on the team.  BG is a part-time rotational player, I assume he'll be back on another cheap deal he wants to retire an Eagle.  They need a starting DE opposite Sweat, and Reddick as pass rush specialist can then be freed up.

We'll see if they like Opeta or Steen as RG, doubtful.  Howie will do what Howie always does, find ways to restructure some guys, cut some guys and eat some dead money, free up money to sign guys he needs to, etc.

The issue is selecting the right players especially in the draft. 

[[TSM]_PimpDaddyPain]

2 hours ago, Mat said:

The Bucs were lining up with 6 guys at the line of scrimmage daring them to throw the ball and beat the blitz.  They also miss Hurts ability to be able to tuck and run and be a threat which made the RB's life easier getting to the second level. Hurts looked slow when trying to take off compared to last year and with that many guys rushing into the backfield it makes it pretty difficult for the RB to do much. The bonehead penalties are on them and they had far too many at times this year. 

The other thing to consider is they lost Seumalo and inserted Jurgens into the RG spot. Seumalo was an excellent lineman and they had someone with less experience playing out of position as his replacement.  

Definitely.  But even if they're blitzing they still gotta call some runs, screens, quick passes to try and negate it.  But as usual, zero adjustment made.  Hurts definitely was slower and ran less this year which did hurt the offense, but should be a last resort kind of thing anyway.  

I'm not convinced about the Seumalo thing.  Jurgens had a bonehead night for sure and the jury is still out on him, but Seumalo was a turnstile half the time. 

[20dawk4life]

I’ve been saying the oline is overrated for years. Especially the guards. 

[Thing3]

3 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Make me sick to think of the OLine next year without Kelce.  Jurgens got beat around too much last night to believe he can take that spot and anchor the line.  

We need to see how Jurgens plays at center which is the position he was drafted for. I don't think you can fully judge him when he is playing out of his natural position.

[NOTW]

3 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

We need to see how Jurgens plays at center which is the position he was drafted for. I don't think you can fully judge him when he is playing out of his natural position.

That, plus the coaching and schemes were hurting a lot of players, a bunch of players regressed.  When veteran star players are getting too many penalties, fumbles, etc. the team is a mess and that's on coaching.  All the young guys shouldn't be judged yet, they've all showed potential and need better coaching.