Survivor Season 40: Winners at War

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

Not sure if it's significant or not, but the finale tomorrow night is scheduled as a three hour show, rather than the standard "two hour finale plus one hour reunion". 

[20Safety_Hazards]

9 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Not sure if it's significant or not, but the finale tomorrow night is scheduled as a three hour show, rather than the standard "two hour finale plus one hour reunion". 

Probably have a non-reunion pretaped via zoom or other mediums with just the final 3 in a studio.  But they have the edge challenge, 3 immunity challenges and standard tribals before you even get to final tribal so 3 hours seems right. 

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

The reunion shows have been pretty terrible the last few years. In the old days, they'd make a point to have a discussion with every single player, but lately they spend so much time chatting with the notable players that they don't even get around to including everyone. I only watch because I feel obligated after investing a couple of months into the show.

Still don't know who to root for. But it feels like Tony or Sarah should be the winner.

[20Safety_Hazards]

I’ve rooted for Yul all season, if he somehow comes back I’ll root for him. Albeit unlikely he gets there.

If Tony gets to the finals I’d like to see him win unanimously if only because it would show the other winners how bad they played down the stretch. To date, Tony still has not received a vote against him which is incredible for a winners season given how aggressive he’s played of late. After Tony, it’d probably root for Denise. I think she’s played better with less than Sarah. Followed by Michelle then the edge returnee then Ben in distant last.

[JBENT87]

55 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

The reunion shows have been pretty terrible the last few years. In the old days, they'd make a point to have a discussion with every single player, but lately they spend so much time chatting with the notable players that they don't even get around to including everyone. I only watch because I feel obligated after investing a couple of months into the show.

Still don't know who to root for. But it feels like Tony or Sarah should be the winner.

Different networks/shows, but the MTV The Challenge Reunion shows are actually 8 hours or so. Was  listening to a podcast one time and a contestant who was on mentioned that. They then just edit it down to air only the biggest best parts with the most relevant contestants. 

I think the Survivor show usually presents itself as being live, but I gotta imagine theres more to it then the version that makes it to us. 

[VaBeach_Eagle]

I think that they'd have featured Yul more on the Edge, if he were going to get back in, but maybe not. I really hope it's not Natalie that gets back in, but she's getting that kind of edit, so far. 

As for the reunion, I just read this (from the 22nd of April):

Quote

https://ew.com/tv/survivor-jeff-probst-winners-at-war-finale-reunion-coronavirus/

CBS announced on April 13 that, due to the coronavirus, all live look-ins and reunion elements of the May 13 finale would be done remotely, with the 20 former winners all connecting from their own homes. "During the finale, Jeff will also virtually connect by video with all 20 players to discuss the highlights of the season," the announcement read.

So what exactly does that mean, and how will the reunion work? While speaking to EW, the host explained that the plan is still a work in progress. "We are still figuring out exactly what we’re going to do,” says Probst. "The rules change every day! At this point I can’t tell you what we’re planning, because we are still exploring options.”

I don't know if there's any spoilers in that article, that's as far as I read. 

[20Safety_Hazards]

Oh I agree that Yul hasn’t gotten enough coverage on the edge to suggest a return, but then again he has only won one challenge. Most of the edge time went to people who won things unless there was something "inspiring” like Rob not giving up or something that promotes the edge twist or survivor in general (like Tyson talking about some people unable to get over getting voted out). I’m just wishful thinking at this point, but until he’s on the jury, I’m going to hold out hope. 

[Gern Blanston]

3 hours ago, 20Safety_Hazards said:

I’ve rooted for Yul all season, if he somehow comes back I’ll root for him. Albeit unlikely he gets there.

If Tony gets to the finals I’d like to see him win unanimously if only because it would show the other winners how bad they played down the stretch. To date, Tony still has not received a vote against him which is incredible for a winners season given how aggressive he’s played of late. After Tony, it’d probably root for Denise. I think she’s played better with less than Sarah. Followed by Michelle then the edge returnee then Ben in distant last.

Pretty much aligned with your thinking.

My guess is that this is more or less Tony's game unless the group wises up and boots him the first chance they get, but pretty sure whoever comes off of the Edge will be their first priority.  As I said before, if Yul, Natalie, Tyson or just about any other person over there is sitting at Final, they'll have nearly 8 votes in their pocket, honestly I like them all and wouldn't HATE seeing any of them win as individuals, but any of them winning would be a bit tainted.

Assuming Tony and "Edge Winner" are 2 of the 3 boots, I'd rank them in this order;

Denise - Hasn't upset many apple carts along the way and has the massive dunk on Sandra to use.  Without a doubt, she'd be the 3rd on my list of people I wouldn't want to sit against.

Sarah - Decent game, could get dinged a bit for being viewed as Tony's wingman.

Michelle - Will she get sympathy votes for being the underdog?  Its not like she's intentionally played a passive game this time, just always played numbers down for most of the season - if she snags another immunity or two tonight...  Best scenario for her is sitting with Ben and Sarah.

Ben - I won't throw things at the TV if he wins, but barring some major swerves over the last 3 hours, you get the sense he's not winning any popularity contests with the jury.  Not saying he's a villain or anything, but its not like he's made a ton of friends either.

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

Another lecture. Cool.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

25 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Another lecture. Cool.

I just skipped through it. 

[Kz!]

Man, whining about double standards in Survivor after you’ve already won a million and have a great chance at winning again.... bold.

[VaBeach_Eagle]

14 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Man, whining about double standards in Survivor after you’ve already won a million and have a great chance at winning again.... bold.

Then she needed to have a man 'give her permission' to vote for him so that she would have a 'resume'. So by going along with that, she was basically saying that she couldn't win on her own, she needed Ben to "give her" a resume. 

[VaBeach_Eagle]

In case someone hasn't seen the finale yet, I'll put this in a spoiler:

Spoiler

Tony has to be considered one of, and maybe the best to play the game. His frenetic way of playing is the perfect way to play... if you want to get voted out, yet he was able to navigate his way around in both of the seasons that he won.

It's a bit annoying when they declare Sandra to be the 'Queen' of Survivor. You can't be the 'Queen' when you only won by being the least offensive choice, and by being the weakest player therefore nobody bothered to care about you. Then when you have a chance to go head to head vs. all these other winners, you quit half way through the game and go home. 

[homerpat]

So had returnee in a pool and would win $350 if they win. Happy with ending 

[20Safety_Hazards]

Will put my finale thoughts in spoilers as well. 

Spoiler

 

I'm not going to lie, I bit hard last night on the fakeout Sarah's winning edit. When she gave the lecture and said you can call me Lucina and the jury was eating it up I thought crap, here it comes.  But I'm glad it didn't come to pass.  Her big move would have been fake and it would have tarnished her actual moves in the game.  

Last nights Final Tribal went as it should have.  Natalie made it to the end but it was ultimately not nearly as impressive of a run as Chris's final run from EOE.  Natalie played and Idol first tribal, but guessed wrong and let the majority dictated who went home.  (Her and Michelle should have forced a split vote on Sarah and Denise - as Denise will have been shown to be on the bottom side of a 4 person alliance and probably would have turned on Ben and Tony, or at least Tony).  Then Natalie foolishly reveals her idol, which then negated her second big play. Yes she got Ben out, but because Sarah voted with them, it made the move Sarah's move not hers.  Then She wins the final Immunity, another good move, but she puts Tony up against Sarah.  She had no answer other than to "break up the 4."  Ultimately if anyone took out Tony they would get the credit not Natalie.  Natalie should have put Michelle up, with the logic, I know Michelle is the best to make fire, I'm doing this to take out Tony.  Then even if Michelle loses, Sarah eats into Tony's votes in the Final 3 and maybe gives Natalie a chance to win without a majority. (Long shot - but still the best option).  Ultimately, for getting to the end, Natalie's run was kind of underwhelming.

Michelle, I get her credit for lasting to the end, but that's really all she did.  She just kinda hung in there and was on the wrong side of the vote almost every time.  She played a good game, she made all the right arguments before the final tribal counsel, but unfortunately no one was willing to listen.  It's hard to say she deserved the win over Tony.  This is what made the Ben over Sarah vote all the more puzzling.  I think Michelle or Natalie would have swung more votes if they sat next to Ben in the finale.  And Ben almost certainly beats Tony in fire.  

Tony played the best game, especially post merge.  I personally think he was aided by an alliance who really didn't understand how dominant his Game looked to the jury until it was too late.  It wasn't as bad as Rob's win, but I do think a lot of the remaining winners played poor at least way too conservatively down the stretch.  But Tony took the risk, he read the situation right and he absolutely deserved the win.  

All in all I give Winners at War about 7 out of 10.  It was a good season that was really hurt by the last 1/3rd of the season.  After Tony's dominant minority split vote move, there was nothing surprising or shocking about who went home.   Ultimately, I think this season was hurt badly when they went to 3 tribes.  A lot of players who were in good positions got screwed over by the swap, leaving a lot of players post merge who weren't quite creative enough to match Tony.  What's interesting is, while the new school players dominated the season, I thought some of the old schoolers were better players and would have made the merge far more interesting.  I guarantee you if Rob, Yul, or Parvati made it to the merge the dynamics of the game change completely.  I've ultimately come around on fire tokens but the system needs some fixes, mostly to make it work without the Edge.  Edge needs to die. Or at a minimum, the first edge group needs to be kicked off after the first challenge (even then I'm not very happy with it but at least its better).   I think you'll see another returning player season of Old School v. New School.  It'll be interesting to see how you pull it off to ensure balance with tribes, as the old schoolers will be, at a minimum, in their 30s.  I'd like to see a three tribe start of Old School Players(1-20), Transition Players (20-30), and New School Players (30 to Present) and see how that plays out. 

 

 

[20Safety_Hazards]

10 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

In case someone hasn't seen the finale yet, I'll put this in a spoiler:

  Hide contents

Tony has to be considered one of, and maybe the best to play the game. His frenetic way of playing is the perfect way to play... if you want to get voted out, yet he was able to navigate his way around in both of the seasons that he won.

It's a bit annoying when they declare Sandra to be the 'Queen' of Survivor. You can't be the 'Queen' when you only won by being the least offensive choice, and by being the weakest player therefore nobody bothered to care about you. Then when you have a chance to go head to head vs. all these other winners, you quit half way through the game and go home. 

Spoiler

Tony's preferred style of play is boom or bust.  Because he played that way and got voted out very very early in Game Changers.  This time around, he very smartly played it low key until he won immunity then opened his game after he had already established his network of trust.   But even still, during the 3 tribe split, he was on the verge of getting voted out with his spy shack. People were very wary of him then.  He smartly dialed it back and waited for his opportunity. 

 

[homerpat]

2 hours ago, 20Safety_Hazards said:

Will put my finale thoughts in spoilers as well. 

  Hide contents

 

I'm not going to lie, I bit hard last night on the fakeout Sarah's winning edit. When she gave the lecture and said you can call me Lucina and the jury was eating it up I thought crap, here it comes.  But I'm glad it didn't come to pass.  Her big move would have been fake and it would have tarnished her actual moves in the game.  

Last nights Final Tribal went as it should have.  Natalie made it to the end but it was ultimately not nearly as impressive of a run as Chris's final run from EOE.  Natalie played and Idol first tribal, but guessed wrong and let the majority dictated who went home.  (Her and Michelle should have forced a split vote on Sarah and Denise - as Denise will have been shown to be on the bottom side of a 4 person alliance and probably would have turned on Ben and Tony, or at least Tony).  Then Natalie foolishly reveals her idol, which then negated her second big play. Yes she got Ben out, but because Sarah voted with them, it made the move Sarah's move not hers.  Then She wins the final Immunity, another good move, but she puts Tony up against Sarah.  She had no answer other than to "break up the 4."  Ultimately if anyone took out Tony they would get the credit not Natalie.  Natalie should have put Michelle up, with the logic, I know Michelle is the best to make fire, I'm doing this to take out Tony.  Then even if Michelle loses, Sarah eats into Tony's votes in the Final 3 and maybe gives Natalie a chance to win without a majority. (Long shot - but still the best option).  Ultimately, for getting to the end, Natalie's run was kind of underwhelming.

Michelle, I get her credit for lasting to the end, but that's really all she did.  She just kinda hung in there and was on the wrong side of the vote almost every time.  She played a good game, she made all the right arguments before the final tribal counsel, but unfortunately no one was willing to listen.  It's hard to say she deserved the win over Tony.  This is what made the Ben over Sarah vote all the more puzzling.  I think Michelle or Natalie would have swung more votes if they sat next to Ben in the finale.  And Ben almost certainly beats Tony in fire.  

Tony played the best game, especially post merge.  I personally think he was aided by an alliance who really didn't understand how dominant his Game looked to the jury until it was too late.  It wasn't as bad as Rob's win, but I do think a lot of the remaining winners played poor at least way too conservatively down the stretch.  But Tony took the risk, he read the situation right and he absolutely deserved the win.  

All in all I give Winners at War about 7 out of 10.  It was a good season that was really hurt by the last 1/3rd of the season.  After Tony's dominant minority split vote move, there was nothing surprising or shocking about who went home.   Ultimately, I think this season was hurt badly when they went to 3 tribes.  A lot of players who were in good positions got screwed over by the swap, leaving a lot of players post merge who weren't quite creative enough to match Tony.  What's interesting is, while the new school players dominated the season, I thought some of the old schoolers were better players and would have made the merge far more interesting.  I guarantee you if Rob, Yul, or Parvati made it to the merge the dynamics of the game change completely.  I've ultimately come around on fire tokens but the system needs some fixes, mostly to make it work without the Edge.  Edge needs to die. Or at a minimum, the first edge group needs to be kicked off after the first challenge (even then I'm not very happy with it but at least its better).   I think you'll see another returning player season of Old School v. New School.  It'll be interesting to see how you pull it off to ensure balance with tribes, as the old schoolers will be, at a minimum, in their 30s.  I'd like to see a three tribe start of Old School Players(1-20), Transition Players (20-30), and New School Players (30 to Present) and see how that plays out. 

 

 

completely disagree on the comparison to Chris. His was not impressive at all Hence why everyone on earth knew he had to make fire to have any shot. Devins would have smoked him unanimously otherwise. Smart move but not remotely impressive. Really just necessary. Otherwise I agree completely

[20Safety_Hazards]

9 minutes ago, homerpat said:

completely disagree on the comparison to Chris. His was not impressive at all Hence why everyone on earth knew he had to make fire to have any shot. Devins would have smoked him unanimously otherwise. Smart move but not remotely impressive. Really just necessary. 

To clarify on Chris, I don’t think he should have won.  That was Devins season and if Devins made it to the finale he have won easily. I still think Chris’s victory is tainted by the Edge. I am only comparing Chris’s run to this season. Chris did everything he had to do to give himself a chance and really had as perfect a run you could get coming back in at final 6. Does that mean I think Chris should have won? No. But Strictly comparing Chris’s run to this season, Chris’s run was more impressive and made a greater impact on the game. 

[RPeeteRules]

It seems like next season might be all (or a majority) of really young players.  Jeff asking for 16-18 year old applicants makes me think they want to do it as they’re the healthiest (ideally) of the ages and can have them go through survivor easier with everything going on in the world than some of the older potential contestants. 

[VaBeach_Eagle]

Yeah, sounds like that may be something planned, but I wouldn't want to see a children's version of Survivor. Seems to me that was tried, about 10 years ago (not by Survivor) and it bombed badly. 

[RPeeteRules]

3 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Yeah, sounds like that may be something planned, but I wouldn't want to see a children's version of Survivor. Seems to me that was tried, about 10 years ago (not by Survivor) and it bombed badly. 

Kid Nation.  It was poorly done.  I think if it’s 16-18 year olds, I’d hope they have most of the same challenges and struggles that normal survivor does.

[homerpat]

16 hours ago, RPeeteRules said:

Kid Nation.  It was poorly done.  I think if it’s 16-18 year olds, I’d hope they have most of the same challenges and struggles that normal survivor does.

We already have The Challenge. I like to see a mix of ages. Gives me rooting interest as an old man. I still always debate putting a video together to try out. Went to Amazing a race tryout awhile back and was interviewed for a really long time compared to everyone else but fact is while relatively attractive I’m no adonis and have no gimmick to get on these shows. Just a guy who was athletic when younger and really likes watching physical competition reality shows like this BB Challenge and TAR

[homerpat]

On 5/14/2020 at 11:41 AM, 20Safety_Hazards said:

To clarify on Chris, I don’t think he should have won.  That was Devins season and if Devins made it to the finale he have won easily. I still think Chris’s victory is tainted by the Edge. I am only comparing Chris’s run to this season. Chris did everything he had to do to give himself a chance and really had as perfect a run you could get coming back in at final 6. Does that mean I think Chris should have won? No. But Strictly comparing Chris’s run to this season, Chris’s run was more impressive and made a greater impact on the game. 

That was what I’m referring too. Not sure if I’m misremembering, but I don’t remember Chris pulling any amazing moves and he didn’t earn an immunity like Natalie did beasting Exile non stop. So when he came back maybe they’re even in what they did, but Natalie was unreal on exile. 

 

Still think Tony 100% deserved win, but if Natalie took him out she should have won

[20Safety_Hazards]

34 minutes ago, homerpat said:

That was what I’m referring too. Not sure if I’m misremembering, but I don’t remember Chris pulling any amazing moves and he didn’t earn an immunity like Natalie did beasting Exile non stop. So when he came back maybe they’re even in what they did, but Natalie was unreal on exile. 

 

Still think Tony 100% deserved win, but if Natalie took him out she should have won

Chris returned to the game with a two piece idol. He gave half to Devens in hopes of building trust. Devens gave him the half back to make a real idol. Chris then convinced Lauren to play her hidden immunity idol on him, essentially getting Lauren to burn it a day early which ultimately lead to Lauren getting voted out the next TC when Chris nullified the votes against him. Then after Devens won immunity, he got the half back and played it to save himself to get to final four. Then he won immunity, and took out the biggest threat to win the game by going head to head in fire. 

Chris’s first move burned an idol, his second move played an idol correctly and knocked out the person whose idol he had just flushed, he won immunity for final 4 and willingly gave it up so that he could take on Devens in the final fire challenge and then won it! IMO, that is the more impressive resume then Natalie’s run. Natalie has a chance to dictate the split vote by forcing Denise and Sarah to make fire. She didn’t. She didn’t play an idol correctly, nor was she responsible for getting Ben out, Sarah did that. Then like Chris she won final immunity and had a chance to go head to head and take out her main competition, but chickened out. 

[JBENT87]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:10 PM, homerpat said:

We already have The Challenge. I like to see a mix of ages. Gives me rooting interest as an old man. I still always debate putting a video together to try out. Went to Amazing a race tryout awhile back and was interviewed for a really long time compared to everyone else but fact is while relatively attractive I’m no adonis and have no gimmick to get on these shows. Just a guy who was athletic when younger and really likes watching physical competition reality shows like this BB Challenge and TAR

Yep my fiance and I watch all of these shows and the other night while watching The Challenge, and an episode featuring a female contestant cheating on her boyfriend of 4 years who she lives with and was anticipating an engagement with soon, kinda laughed and were like yeah people like us wouldn't get casted on one of these shows. Just too normal and not reckless enough to appeal to the drama seeking producers, even if we somehow met the physical standards. Granted Survivor isn't necessarily looking for drama/crazy people to the extent Big Brother/The Challenge is, but the line is being blurred more and more (with Survivor/BB contestants now ending up on the Challenge when before it was strictly MTV personalities). 

On 5/15/2020 at 3:58 PM, 20Safety_Hazards said:

Chris returned to the game with a two piece idol. He gave half to Devens in hopes of building trust. Devens gave him the half back to make a real idol. Chris then convinced Lauren to play her hidden immunity idol on him, essentially getting Lauren to burn it a day early which ultimately lead to Lauren getting voted out the next TC when Chris nullified the votes against him. Then after Devens won immunity, he got the half back and played it to save himself to get to final four. Then he won immunity, and took out the biggest threat to win the game by going head to head in fire. 

Chris’s first move burned an idol, his second move played an idol correctly and knocked out the person whose idol he had just flushed, he won immunity for final 4 and willingly gave it up so that he could take on Devens in the final fire challenge and then won it! IMO, that is the more impressive resume then Natalie’s run. Natalie has a chance to dictate the split vote by forcing Denise and Sarah to make fire. She didn’t. She didn’t play an idol correctly, nor was she responsible for getting Ben out, Sarah did that. Then like Chris she won final immunity and had a chance to go head to head and take out her main competition, but chickened out. 

Good post/recap. I remember strongly supporting the decision for Chris to win because of remembering how he did everything in his power he could to get the win, but didn't recall these specifics the way you laid them out. Definitely was more deserving of his win than Natalie would've been had she pulled it off. Would've been a travesty for Tony to not leave this season without the win.