11 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

 

How do we explain 2022? Even the last 2 years there are times (albeit not enough) that he has read the defense, thrown to someone other than the 1st read, thrown to the middle, stayed in the pocket to make throws...

Here's a highlight reel of plays in 2022. So, fans think that Hurts played at an MVP level in 2022 and then...refused to run those plays and is stubborn and does not want to play great anymore? That doesn't add up. I think Hurts is part of the problem and players can regress. But I don't really buy that he refuses to do things...especially things that were so successful in the past.

 

 

It's the play calling.

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

Lane Johnson complained about the slow starts and that it's been happening for 2 years. That's a head coach issue, when changing coordinators and things stay the same.

I do wonder how much of this is Sirianni and how much of this is Jalen. It seems like Jalen tends to start slow. It also feels a lot like Sirianni’s offense with one guy in motion. They seem to be trying RB screens lately, but boy are they bad at it. So when I see them add new wrinkles into what they’re doing it often feels like they just aren’t practicing it enough to make the play run effectively. So regardless of who is coordinating, it just doesn’t feel like they’re well enough prepared on both sides of the ball. In the end the lack of preparation comes down to the head coach regardless of what offense they’re running. How many times do we see offensive penalties kill drives? How do they call a play against the Browns where you leave Miles Garrett unblocked? Really during game prep who thought it was a great idea to do that? In the end two years running we have only two variables that are the same under these slow starts and that’s the quarterback and the coach. 

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

 

Were they the same in 2022 under Steichen when Hurts was a runner up MVP and had they won the SB would have been SB MVP? Serious question because I don't know. 

If it's the QB, how are the coaches adjusting to him (since he's not going anywhere)? Hurts does make throws from under center, in the pocket, to the middle of the field. Not enough, but he's done that. He has made more than 1 read, he has finally passed to other receivers like Dotson and Calcaterra. 

If the QB is really that bad that he just can't/won't run the offense the way they want, then what are the coaches doing about that? Bench him and make a statement. Hold him accountable.

I don’t agree that it is Hurts.  The offense was humming the first 2 years when Steichen was here and had more control (supposedly) over the offense.  After he departed, the offense looked quite a bit different … Sirianni was running the offense then (even if BJ was calling the plays in … but after Sirianni relayed them to him).  I guess the only way we’ll ever really know if it is Hurts or Sirianni hampering the offense is if/when Nick gets canned and they bring in a new coaching staff.  

8 hours ago, Kz! said:

I know it would have been controversial considering his overall record, but this is why we probably should have just moved on from Siri this offseason. He's kind of in a no-win situation. New coordinators come in and excel? Great, they get the credit. They come in and continue to suck, Siri's a bad leader, or worse, he's meddling in the offense and influencing the new guy. 

I eluded to that sentiment awhile back. And while I don't have an issue with Kellen Moore taking over if this season becomes successful, I do have a slight concern that if Moore doesn't work out, the job becomes less appealing to anyone reputable since the optics would show they fired a coach who was in the playoffs 4 straight seasons.

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

 

 

How do we explain 2022? Even the last 2 years there are times (albeit not enough) that he has read the defense, thrown to someone other than the 1st read, thrown to the middle, stayed in the pocket to make throws...

Here's a highlight reel of plays in 2022. So, fans think that Hurts played at an MVP level in 2022 and then...refused to run those plays and is stubborn and does not want to play great anymore? That doesn't add up. I think Hurts is part of the problem and players can regress. But I don't really buy that he refuses to do things...especially things that were so successful in the past.

 

 

I think a big part of the problem is that in 2022 Shane Steichen called the RPO and the RPRs to perfection, and the league had absolutely no idea how to stop it. This made Hurts a 1-read QB and played to his strengths. He was fast, accurate, and didn’t have too much responsibility on his shoulders.  I’d also add that he was lucky with most of his fumbles this season and his 50/50 prayers were almost always caught.  

Fast forward to last year, with BJ in his first year as OC and Sirianni most likely trying to look over his shoulder at every turn, along with the entire NFL figuring out how to scheme against the RPO, along with Hurts injuring his knee and noticeably losing a lot of speed already in his mid 20s.  He showed his complete inability to adjust to certain defensive schemes when everyone adjusted to him.  He shows constistantly that he refused to throw over the middle, and doesn’t take what the defense gives him.

Fast forward to now. Kellen Moore as the OC and as recently as this past weekend, he can’t run or won’t run play action with Hurts, which is insanity to me. He still refuses to throw over the middle, so what we get are prayers and 50/50 jump balls they are consistently under thrown when it’s 3rd and 4. It’s the most inefficient offense because of our QB. He’s made 2 great audibles at the line this year, and they both basically won us the game in New Orleans and then this other play to Devonta against Cleveland. That was encouraging. 

I think our HC is also a buffoon, but I don’t think Kellen Moore comes in here and just changed his entire offensive scheme, that has clearly brought the best out of the QBs he’s coached. 

7 hours ago, NOTW said:

No. The problem is last year's offense had a lot of problems. They fired Brian Johnson and brought in Moore to bring creativity and improvements. If Moore isn't allowed to cook and Siri is interfering...and the offense is still struggling like it did last year, then it's not a good thing. If multiple analysts are pointing out that they do not see the evidence of Moore's offense that he ran in Dallas and LA that were highly ranked offenses, and they're seeing the same formations and designs this year as last year, then it's concerning that the expected changes are not happening. If Siri is hurting the offense, then he needs to let go. He should be game planning with strategy and preparation through the week, but leaning on Moore in play design and execution. 

Moore is trying to adapt his concepts with the personnel here and infuse that with their strengths. That coincides with Sirianni's philosophy of building around players rather than systems. So, for example, you see Hurts still in shotgun rather than under center a majority of the time because that benefits Jalen. That really isn't a Moore thing, or even a Sirianni thing --- it's a Jalen thing. So as Moore works on his offense here, that is a difference from his past offenses that will be noticeable.

I honestly think Sirianni volunteers to take a lot of the blame for players and coaches. He's certainly not throwing anybody under the bus. I think the players and coaching staff appreciate that and respect him for that. He keeps the critics and media focused on "his job" rather than everybody else's.  CJGJ's comment this week show that Nick is a "players' coach" and that they are behind him --- despite all the outsiders suggesting Nick is losing or has lost the locker room. Now, when you have a players' coach taking a lot of heat and you don't want to see that guy fired, you need to win games. We are 3-2 and have 12 more (regular season) games to play. Nick isn't getting fired just because the fans were upset with an offensive possession and began chanting, "fire nick." 

Eagles fans may not like his actions and comments after the game, but it's about time somebody stood up to the mob. AJ Brown did that a little bit a year ago on social media and calling into one show. Philly fans have a certain reputation and sometimes they act like embodying that  "reputation" is more important than winning games. We don't go to our kids' events or important events that family or friends participate in and heckle, ridicule, boo. express disgust, etc... when they aren't perfect --- because we love them. We all love the Eagles, but think it's okay to heckle, criticize, boo during winnable games (I am not absolving myself from such behavior)  instead of cheering them on, believing in them and generally being supportive even after mistakes. And while what I'm saying won't be popular at all amongst this fan base, the irony is that when the fan base and the local media is criticized, they can't take it. It's a classic case of "[they] can dish it out, but not take it." 

Everybody with half a brain can see that encouragement brings about more positive results than ridicule. But for some reason this fan base wonders why there aren't more frequent championship trophies coming home to Philadelphia. When it's more important to see heads roll than see an underperforming person turn things around, I believe there's a problem.

This cool story is dedicated to @Procus

23 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Moore is trying to adapt his concepts with the personnel here and infuse that with their strengths. That coincides with Sirianni's philosophy of building around players rather than systems. So, for example, you see Hurts still in shotgun rather than under center a majority of the time because that benefits Jalen. That really isn't a Moore thing, or even a Sirianni thing --- it's a Jalen thing. So as Moore works on his offense here, that is a difference from his past offenses that will be noticeable.

I honestly think Sirianni volunteers to take a lot of the blame for players and coaches. He's certainly not throwing anybody under the bus. I think the players and coaching staff appreciate that and respect him for that. He keeps the critics and media focused on "his job" rather than everybody else's.  CJGJ's comment this week show that Nick is a "players' coach" and that they are behind him --- despite all the outsiders suggesting Nick is losing or has lost the locker room. Now, when you have a players' coach taking a lot of heat and you don't want to see that guy fired, you need to win games. We are 3-2 and have 12 more (regular season) games to play. Nick isn't getting fired just because the fans were upset with an offensive possession and began chanting, "fire nick." 

Eagles fans may not like his actions and comments after the game, but it's about time somebody stood up to the mob. AJ Brown did that a little bit a year ago on social media and calling into one show. Philly fans have a certain reputation and sometimes they act like embodying that  "reputation" is more important than winning games. We don't go to our kids' events or important events that family or friends participate in and heckle, ridicule, boo. express disgust, etc... when they aren't perfect --- because we love them. We all love the Eagles, but think it's okay to heckle, criticize, boo during winnable games (I am not absolving myself from such behavior)  instead of cheering them on, believing in them and generally being supportive even after mistakes. And while what I'm saying won't be popular at all amongst this fan base, the irony is that when the fan base and the local media is criticized, they can't take it. It's a classic case of "[they] can dish it out, but not take it." 

Everybody with half a brain can see that encouragement brings about more positive results than ridicule. But for some reason this fan base wonders why there aren't more frequent championship trophies coming home to Philadelphia. When it's more important to see heads roll than see an underperforming person turn things around, I believe there's a problem.

This cool story is dedicated to @Procus

spy v spy

I knew I remembered that from somewhere

2 hours ago, hputenis said:

I think a big part of the problem is that in 2022 Shane Steichen called the RPO and the RPRs to perfection, and the league had absolutely no idea how to stop it. This made Hurts a 1-read QB and played to his strengths. He was fast, accurate, and didn’t have too much responsibility on his shoulders.  I’d also add that he was lucky with most of his fumbles this season and his 50/50 prayers were almost always caught.  

Fast forward to last year, with BJ in his first year as OC and Sirianni most likely trying to look over his shoulder at every turn, along with the entire NFL figuring out how to scheme against the RPO, along with Hurts injuring his knee and noticeably losing a lot of speed already in his mid 20s.  He showed his complete inability to adjust to certain defensive schemes when everyone adjusted to him.  He shows constistantly that he refused to throw over the middle, and doesn’t take what the defense gives him.

Fast forward to now. Kellen Moore as the OC and as recently as this past weekend, he can’t run or won’t run play action with Hurts, which is insanity to me. He still refuses to throw over the middle, so what we get are prayers and 50/50 jump balls they are consistently under thrown when it’s 3rd and 4. It’s the most inefficient offense because of our QB. He’s made 2 great audibles at the line this year, and they both basically won us the game in New Orleans and then this other play to Devonta against Cleveland. That was encouraging. 

I think our HC is also a buffoon, but I don’t think Kellen Moore comes in here and just changed his entire offensive scheme, that has clearly brought the best out of the QBs he’s coached. 

Thanks for the essay George R.R. Fartin, did typing all that with your fat sausage fingers give you cramps? 

Ha ha j/k, good stuff.

Siri yesterday was asked about taking blame for calling certain plays. He said that he has philosophies and it wouldn't be fair if he "pushes that on my coaches and then not take accountability when the play doesn't work." Siri said it's common throughout the NFL.

Follow up question: from the standpoint of pointing out specific plays (like the 3rd and 1), you say all the time that your name is on everything whether it's offense, defense or special teams. Is it better to leave it there, and not point out specific plays? Have you thought about that?

Siri: yeah, my name is on everything. Wisdom and discernment about when to do that and not do that. "Unfortunately there's not a rule book about how to be a Head Coach and how to handle situations." 

 

 

 

To me though if the coaches have known for two years that the problem is what QB1is comfortable with, then A) What he can run would look better prepared and executed, the idea that the entire league has worked out our offense and how to stop it is for the birds, it just doesn't happen. and B) you don't trade for a QB like Pickett for your backup if you think QB1 can't run your offense, because the only way out of that hole when your job is on the line is to bench him for a guy that can until you can cut bait, when your back up is only not the worst starting QB in the league of the last 5 years because Bryce Young and Will Levis exist, that isn't happening.

Even if the board brains trust is right and QB1 is the limiting factor then the problem is still coaching, Shanahan and Reid have got deep play off runs out of limited scheme QB's within the last decade, Hurts isn't some over promoted small school project guy, he had enough QB talent to play QB1 for 2 of the country's premier college programs and finished second in Heisman voting in 2019, that doesn't happen if you're a 'one read and take off' merchant, it just doesn't.

8 hours ago, NOTW said:

Siri yesterday was asked about taking blame for calling certain plays. He said that he has philosophies and it wouldn't be fair if he "pushes that on my coaches and then not take accountability when the play doesn't work." Siri said it's common throughout the NFL.

Follow up question: from the standpoint of pointing out specific plays (like the 3rd and 1), you say all the time that your name is on everything whether it's offense, defense or special teams. Is it better to leave it there, and not point out specific plays? Have you thought about that?

Siri: yeah, my name is on everything. Wisdom and discernment about when to do that and not do that. "Unfortunately there's not a rule book about how to be a Head Coach and how to handle situations." 

 

 

 

He’s completely flying by the seat of his pants.  He has zero feel for how to handle certain situations like when to go for it on 4th down vs kicking the FG, when to pass vs run on 3rd down, etc.  If he is truly just focusing on managing the game he’s doing a terrible job with that.  If that isn’t ALL he is doing and he is involved with the offense more than he claims, then he is doing a terrible job at that too.  Either way, he’s not very good at being a HC at this level … he’s in way over his head.  They promoted the intern to run the department and is getting a crash course on how to perform by learning on the job.  

 

10 hours ago, NOTW said:

Thanks for the essay George R.R. Fartin, did typing all that with your fat sausage fingers give you cramps? 

Ha ha j/k, good stuff.

I literally typed that all so fast and just read over the grammar.  It looks like @Blobeph typed that with his clown deek.  My wife literally yelled at me while I was typing that and told me to "get off the stupid message board.”  No sex for her for awhile. That’ll show her!  

I dont think its a problem alone that hurts cant wont run moores offense, the problem arises when hurts doesnt win running an offense tailored to his skill set.

2022 was great and Hurts was on fire and the NFL is full of smart people who seemed to have figured that style of Hurts offense out 

Moore was brought in to switch it up and if hurts and Siri cant/wont adapt and cant get back to 2022 level playing that 2022 style O they both be shown the door and deservedly so 

 

I haven't loved Sirianni's attitude towards the fans. He is immature at times when there is no need for the coach to be diving into that. He did it during a win against Chiefs fans last year. But he does appear to be taking a lot of the heat off the players and teams and taking blame for stuff he has nothing to do with. His clock management needs to improve.

My concern is with the offense for sure though. And at this point everything points to it being a Hurts problem.

I liked Sirianni going at it with fans.  I figured of all the NFL teams; the Eagles fan base wouldn't be so sensitive that they'd get their panties in a bunch when the HC challenges them.

 

And I believe that Sirianni definitely overrules Moore on occasion, he doesn't run the offense though. 

Hell no. He also lied about calling a defensive play. Why? Why the F would you lie about calling a defensive play? EGO, that's why. You want a LIAR as a head coach?? Fandio looked agitated and shot that lie down. He is sick of Siri. Moore is sick of Siri. FIRE this lying mthr F.

3 hours ago, hputenis said:

I literally typed that all so fast and just read over the grammar.  It looks like @Blobeph typed that with his clown deek.  My wife literally yelled at me while I was typing that and told me to "get off the stupid message board.”  No sex for her for awhile. That’ll show her!  

Know your worth king!

 

6 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

To me though if the coaches have known for two years that the problem is what QB1is comfortable with, then A) What he can run would look better prepared and executed, the idea that the entire league has worked out our offense and how to stop it is for the birds, it just doesn't happen. and B) you don't trade for a QB like Pickett for your backup if you think QB1 can't run your offense, because the only way out of that hole when your job is on the line is to bench him for a guy that can until you can cut bait, when your back up is only not the worst starting QB in the league of the last 5 years because Bryce Young and Will Levis exist, that isn't happening.

Even if the board brains trust is right and QB1 is the limiting factor then the problem is still coaching, Shanahan and Reid have got deep play off runs out of limited scheme QB's within the last decade, Hurts isn't some over promoted small school project guy, he had enough QB talent to play QB1 for 2 of the country's premier college programs and finished second in Heisman voting in 2019, that doesn't happen if you're a 'one read and take off' merchant, it just doesn't.

Agreed.

5 hours ago, time2rock said:

He’s completely flying by the seat of his pants.  He has zero feel for how to handle certain situations like when to go for it on 4th down vs kicking the FG, when to pass vs run on 3rd down, etc.  If he is truly just focusing on managing the game he’s doing a terrible job with that.  If that isn’t ALL he is doing and he is involved with the offense more than he claims, then he is doing a terrible job at that too.  Either way, he’s not very good at being a HC at this level … he’s in way over his head.  They promoted the intern to run the department and is getting a crash course on how to perform by learning on the job.  

 

I also agree with this. I think he (like others) are thrown into HC too early. Some handle it better than others. I think he wants to be aggressive, and that can be good but you also have to be smart. He is too passionate, evidenced by his lack of control of his emotions. He goes after fans of other teams and now his own, he had to be calmed by his own young QB in the SB, he goes on rants in press conferences, all of that put together shows a pattern. He wants to be aggressive, keep the foot on the gas pedal and score points so he goes for it on 4th. And there are times being that aggressive is good.

But if your offense is struggling with slow starts for 2 years, had an epic collapse last year, your QB is struggling and you're missing your two star WRs, then you play it safe and take the points. Getting on the board can psychologically help the players mindset too, at least it's not 0 and you come back next drive. It also helps the defense. Not scoring demoralizes them and they feel extra pressure to stop the other team because the offense can't score.

I actually like that he's passionate and aggressive, he's just immature and doesn't know how to channel it.

1 hour ago, Utebird said:

I dont think its a problem alone that hurts cant wont run moores offense, the problem arises when hurts doesnt win running an offense tailored to his skill set.

2022 was great and Hurts was on fire and the NFL is full of smart people who seemed to have figured that style of Hurts offense out 

Moore was brought in to switch it up and if hurts and Siri cant/wont adapt and cant get back to 2022 level playing that 2022 style O they both be shown the door and deservedly so 

 

If other teams can "figure out" Hurts and the way the offense ran in 2022...then what are other successful teams doing? Serious question because I only casually watch some other teams. Are other teams changing things enough from year to year that defenses can't figure them out? Are Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, etc. doing vastly different things from year to year, or do they still have the same skill set? Or, are the coaches tweaking and adjusting things to disguise them with certain looks, motion, etc to keep the defense guessing?

So to me that would point to coaching, not Hurts. If the NFL has "figured out" how to defend Hurts, what are the coaches doing to scheme differently? We know they are not using motion or play action. The narrative some fans have is that Hurts doesn't want to, even refuses to run these things which I find hard to believe.

6 minutes ago, NOTW said:

If other teams can "figure out" Hurts and the way the offense ran in 2022...then what are other successful teams doing? Serious question because I only casually watch some other teams. Are other teams changing things enough from year to year that defenses can't figure them out? Are Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, etc. doing vastly different things from year to year, or do they still have the same skill set? Or, are the coaches tweaking and adjusting things to disguise them with certain looks, motion, etc to keep the defense guessing?

So to me that would point to coaching, not Hurts. If the NFL has "figured out" how to defend Hurts, what are the coaches doing to scheme differently? We know they are not using motion or play action. The narrative some fans have is that Hurts doesn't want to, even refuses to run these things which I find hard to believe.

I dont watch a ton of other teams but two coaches that come to mind which are two of the to best to ever do it are Andy Reid and Bill Belicheat 

Andy is really good at game planning offense and coming up with play design and put new wrinkles on old plays 

This is a guy who broke eagles offensive scoring records with thrash and pinkston as his WRs, dude knows how to scheme an offense 

Bill was known for having a different scheme every week to combat whatever team he eas facing, on offense and defense.

One week hed pound the ball with 3 TE sets and the next week go 5 wide empty all game.

Watching Siri its the same stale stuff over and over, I mean two weeks ago Reid ran some 4 TE sets, something like 8 different guys had receptions in the 1st half and Siri cant figure out how to get the ball to the 3rd WR🤷‍♂️

Siri from what ive seen is a joke as an offensive play caller, designer, and schemer.

21 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I dont watch a ton of other teams but two coaches that come to mind which are two of the to best to ever do it are Andy Reid and Bill Belicheat 

Andy is really good at game planning offense and coming up with play design and put new wrinkles on old plays 

This is a guy who broke eagles offensive scoring records with thrash and pinkston as his WRs, dude knows how to scheme an offense 

Bill was known for having a different scheme every week to combat whatever team he eas facing, on offense and defense.

One week hed pound the ball with 3 TE sets and the next week go 5 wide empty all game.

Watching Siri its the same stale stuff over and over, I mean two weeks ago Reid ran some 4 TE sets, something like 8 different guys had receptions in the 1st half and Siri cant figure out how to get the ball to the 3rd WR🤷‍♂️

Siri from what ive seen is a joke as an offensive play caller, designer, and schemer.

Right, so you chose 2 of the best coaches of all time who each have multiple SBs and also had GOAT QBs. Yes, they are definitely better than Siri! 

But like do these other teams change things up a lot for Lamar, Allen, Carr? Other coaches manage to make Jared Goff and Baker Mayfield look good. I think Hurts has problems and needs to improve, but I also think coaching is the main problem and they need to design and scheme to his strengths.

15 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Right, so you chose 2 of the best coaches of all time who each have multiple SBs and also had GOAT QBs. Yes, they are definitely better than Siri! 

But like do these other teams change things up a lot for Lamar, Allen, Carr? Other coaches manage to make Jared Goff and Baker Mayfield look good. I think Hurts has problems and needs to improve, but I also think coaching is the main problem and they need to design and scheme to his strengths.

They have schemed to his strengths, problem is the league has figured out how to contain/limit those strengths.

You asked a question I answered it.

There are plenty of other coaches that are better offensive schemers, designers etc. than Siri 

Look what Ben Johnson is doing with the lions.

They have a lot of talent on offense much like the Birds but Johnson comes out and utilizes that talent, no one recently has said his offense is constipated.

Eagles have way too much offensive talent to only be 18th in scoring after 6.

Siri is at the top of the list for me as a problem, Depending on how much Howies ANALytics department dictate offensive game plan hes up there too, then hurts. 

 

If the offense were healthy this entire time, I'd understand the criticism. They're just now getting the WR position healthy again and then the starting TE goes down for the game. Not to mention missing Lane for a game, now Mailata is out for a number of weeks.  Once they get healthy I'll be harsh if they're out there looking awful, but right now I'm more concerned with the defense.  They show up one week then take the following one off, so let's hope they don't let Daniel Jones look like Brady this weekend.  

Also, the league has every QB figured out, the hard part is actually stopping them. The bigger issues with the Eagles are playcalling and design. 

4 hours ago, Devaster said:

I haven't loved Sirianni's attitude towards the fans. He is immature at times when there is no need for the coach to be diving into that. He did it during a win against Chiefs fans last year. But he does appear to be taking a lot of the heat off the players and teams and taking blame for stuff he has nothing to do with. His clock management needs to improve.

My concern is with the offense for sure though. And at this point everything points to it being a Hurts problem.

I think if Jalen can rush for 700 or 800 yards it might be less of a problem. If he can't, then it could become a problem.