In 10 years will we look back at 2017 as the (amazing) anomaly in an unspectacular era?

[nipples]

I get that the division hasn’t been very good, but they’ve made the playoffs in 3 of 4 years under Pederson. Came close to upsetting the Saints a couple years ago, and decent chance they pull it off if Alshon doesn’t let the ball slip right through his hands. 

[Swoop]

Could be, but I'm not complaining. I'd like the team to be dominant for years, but we've seen our first SB and two playoff appearances since. Maybe we don't get back there within the next seven years, but I sure as crap take how it started.

[jsdarkstar]

Such a stupid argument.

[Uscg-green]

Whens the last time we made the playoffs three years in a row? Asking for a friend.

[DeathByEagle]

WIP today was talking about the 2017 season and it being a  Lighting in a Bottle moment. Our coaches, GM, staff and players are not as good as we all thought.

I'll be honest in saying, I don't care if it was. I'll still take that SB and enjoy it for the rest of my life. It was all worth it. Even if we suck the next 5 years because of it. 

[Madriver]

45 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

 

I'll be honest in saying, I don't care if it was. I'll still take that SB and enjoy it for the rest of my life. It was all worth it. Even if we suck the next 5 years because of it. 

I feel like yes and no.

Will always cherish the SB run and victory, but I hate seeing incompetence ruin this team.

[EagleMatt]

We had momentum and a QB the team believed in. It was a great run.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Yes we will i think. 

Look I know we've been back to the play offs the 2 years since. 

I know that we were potentially a Brooks injury or a Jeffery catch away from going back to the NFC Championship Game in 2018.

I know that we potentially could have beaten Seattle last year if Carson stays healthy. 

But this is a team that's trending downwards. We were worse last year than the year before. So far we look worse this year than we did last. Our future cap situation is pretty dire and our roster is ageing and in need of a rebuild. 

So yes I think 2017 was a major outlier. We saw high levels of performance from all of our players. We saw our coaches call great play after great play. We saw Wentz play at a super high level and then his back up do the unthinkable. The planets aligned that year. 

[Mortimer]

They were that good in 2017. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

On 9/15/2020 at 10:53 PM, Uscg-green said:

Whens the last time we made the playoffs three years in a row? Asking for a friend.

When was the last time a team made it in 2 years in a row with less than 10 wins?

[Uscg-green]

10 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

When was the last time a team made it in 2 years in a row with less than 10 wins?

Who cares? Playoffs are Playoffs. There are no asterisks. 

[Runtherock]

2017 was an amazing magical team. But the Howie before 2017 and after 2017 is the same guy. Cutting edge on money management and below average on personnel evaluation. For one season he nailed it. Doug on the other hand deserves more respect, both because he won a Super Bowl and because he has kept this team in the playoffs in spite of Howie’s mismanagement of personnel and never ending injuries. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, Runtherock said:

2017 was an amazing magical team. But the Howie before 2017 and after 2017 is the same guy. Cutting edge on money management and below average on personnel evaluation. For one season he nailed it. Doug on the other hand deserves more respect, both because he won a Super Bowl and because he has kept this team in the playoffs in spite of Howie’s mismanagement of personnel and never ending injuries. 

I would agree with that. Doug deserves more time than Howie. Unfortunately I think Doug will go before Howie though. Where Doug deserves criticism is in the development of players. Now that's not just Doug but he's got to take some responsibility for his coaches not doing enough to develop players. 

[NOTW]

This team typically believes its own hype and excuses, so scraping back to make the playoffs despite injuries on paper seems like a good team that just got back luck with injuries and a few bounces that didn't go their way.

Instead of a SB hangover everyone predicted, they made the playoffs and won a game with yet again the backup QB.  And people point to Jeffrey dropping that pass and they could have won a 2nd playoff game that season.  Last year they had like no WRs and Carson struggled and they won the division.  So they keep thinking they can just fight and get back in it.

They changed offensive coaches, drafted 3 WRs for speed and got an insurance QB for Wentz/gadget trick play QB to shake up the offense and traded for a top CB in the league.  So they think just adding these pieces will elevate them.  They don't see the major issues on defensive scheme, lack of LB and secondary talent, scouting problems, wasted draft picks like JJAW, complete bust draft years like 2017 that should have set them up on defense and at RB.  Now they also have cap hell coming up with the supposed cap genius putting them in a bad situation for the next 2 years, and they extended a QB they don't trust enough so they drafted a 2nd round QB as insurance.

Listening to them this week they're all saying they have the talent and just need to fight, just need to keep working.  You don't get the sense that they need to adjust their scheme, change plays to suit Carson, run more to protect Wentz, change defensive strategy so WRs aren't wide open...

They need a wake up call and to realize they're not going to win another SB with this team as constructed.  

[NOTW]

On 9/23/2020 at 10:44 PM, Runtherock said:

2017 was an amazing magical team. But the Howie before 2017 and after 2017 is the same guy. Cutting edge on money management and below average on personnel evaluation. For one season he nailed it. Doug on the other hand deserves more respect, both because he won a Super Bowl and because he has kept this team in the playoffs in spite of Howie’s mismanagement of personnel and never ending injuries. 

 

On 9/24/2020 at 1:04 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I would agree with that. Doug deserves more time than Howie. Unfortunately I think Doug will go before Howie though. Where Doug deserves criticism is in the development of players. Now that's not just Doug but he's got to take some responsibility for his coaches not doing enough to develop players. 

I like Doug, I like that he's aggressive and the players like him and that was needed after Chip.  He was never a head coach before and won a SB in his 2nd year as HC.  That alone is impressive.  He also did it holding together a team that lost a HOF player in Jason Peters and their MVP-season starting QB and had to redesign the offense to the strengths of a journeyman backup QB who was retired from the NFL before signing with them.  

I think the problem is Doug doesn't hold the players accountable enough.  As a former player he favors them too much.  We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.  But he and Press need to be on Carson about his dumb mistakes.  He's regressed big time.  

I don't care for this OC by committee approach.  I don't know why the Eagles can't have a typical GM and typical OC.  Doug needs to have an OC call the plays and let him focus on game strategy and being aggressive.  He also needs to hold Schwartz accountable to adjust his scheme, and should be screaming at Howie to draft better.  Doug needs to flex his muscles and challenge Howie and Lurie to make these changes.  Instead, it appears he was told to fire his offensive coaches and the team is coddling their investment in Wentz while at the same time bringing in Jalen Hurts which is kind of mixed messages.  

This all starts with having a competent GM.  They need to bring in someone with NFL experience from a team that consistently drafts well and let him remake the scouting and personnel departments, set a philosophy rather than change to suit every coach.  Hire coaches, staff and get players that all fit that philosophy and build a team, not change focus every other year.  

I'd love to see Doug with a solid GM and good drafts giving him quality players.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

43 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

I like Doug, I like that he's aggressive and the players like him and that was needed after Chip.  He was never a head coach before and won a SB in his 2nd year as HC.  That alone is impressive.  He also did it holding together a team that lost a HOF player in Jason Peters and their MVP-season starting QB and had to redesign the offense to the strengths of a journeyman backup QB who was retired from the NFL before signing with them.  

I think the problem is Doug doesn't hold the players accountable enough.  As a former player he favors them too much.  We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.  But he and Press need to be on Carson about his dumb mistakes.  He's regressed big time.  

I don't care for this OC by committee approach.  I don't know why the Eagles can't have a typical GM and typical OC.  Doug needs to have an OC call the plays and let him focus on game strategy and being aggressive.  He also needs to hold Schwartz accountable to adjust his scheme, and should be screaming at Howie to draft better.  Doug needs to flex his muscles and challenge Howie and Lurie to make these changes.  Instead, it appears he was told to fire his offensive coaches and the team is coddling their investment in Wentz while at the same time bringing in Jalen Hurts which is kind of mixed messages.  

This all starts with having a competent GM.  They need to bring in someone with NFL experience from a team that consistently drafts well and let him remake the scouting and personnel departments, set a philosophy rather than change to suit every coach.  Hire coaches, staff and get players that all fit that philosophy and build a team, not change focus every other year.  

I'd love to see Doug with a solid GM and good drafts giving him quality players.

I disagree with this, the offense wasn't redesigned it was at most a slight change of emphasis,  I think Foles is just better at running the offense as its designed, especially the RPO than Wentz is or at least has been since 2017,  if you want a guy to improvise you pick Wentz, if you want a guy to run the offense as designed you pick Foles, in '17  Foles got the ball out quicker and spread the ball around better, he hit receivers in stride with space to run and they used it. Foles also throws a better screen pass and disguises it better (our screen game is laughable now), so when he did throw out the odd long bomb it was to a defense that had started to cheat up to stop the run and underneath stuff. Wentz had an advantage in air yards but as you see this year, too often his pass arrives a split second before a head on collision with a Corner or Safety, I'm not talking about normal defensive tackling, I'm talking about sprinting full tilt into a safeties helmet to the facemask, eventually those sort of throws will have your receivers anticipating the hit as the ball arrives and playing tense. Foles was also happier to throw an arc to the sideline to a receiver that has half a step and trust him to catch it than Wentz has ever been.

The team made it's choice and there's no point rehearsing the arguments on that again, but if you really believe the offense was redesigned for Foles, why has Doug sat on his hands the last two years while Wentz has laboured to a ~.500 record as starter?

[NOTW]

2 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I disagree with this, the offense wasn't redesigned it was at most a slight change of emphasis,  I think Foles is just better at running the offense as its designed, especially the RPO than Wentz is or at least has been since 2017,  if you want a guy to improvise you pick Wentz, if you want a guy to run the offense as designed you pick Foles, in '17  Foles got the ball out quicker and spread the ball around better, he hit receivers in stride with space to run and they used it. Foles also throws a better screen pass and disguises it better (our screen game is laughable now), so when he did throw out the odd long bomb it was to a defense that had started to cheat up to stop the run and underneath stuff. Wentz had an advantage in air yards but as you see this year, too often his pass arrives a split second before a head on collision with a Corner or Safety, I'm not talking about normal defensive tackling, I'm talking about sprinting full tilt into a safeties helmet to the facemask, eventually those sort of throws will have your receivers anticipating the hit as the ball arrives and playing tense. Foles was also happier to throw an arc to the sideline to a receiver that has half a step and trust him to catch it than Wentz has ever been.

The team made it's choice and there's no point rehearsing the arguments on that again, but if you really believe the offense was redesigned for Foles, why has Doug sat on his hands the last two years while Wentz has laboured to a ~.500 record as starter?

Doug said back then, and again this week in a press conference that he had to change the offense, go back to see footage of Chip Kelly's RPO system when Foles had a successful year in 2013 and implement those type of plays for him.  They made a big deal of it in the media when Foles took over, if you recall he struggled at first in the regular season and that's part of why people counted them out.  Doug and Reich changed the offense to suit Foles strengths and he started to get more comfortable.  

[Cochis_Calhoun]

29 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Doug said back then, and again this week in a press conference that he had to change the offense, go back to see footage of Chip Kelly's RPO system when Foles had a successful year in 2013 and implement those type of plays for him.  They made a big deal of it in the media when Foles took over, if you recall he struggled at first in the regular season and that's part of why people counted them out.  Doug and Reich changed the offense to suit Foles strengths and he started to get more comfortable.  

But the statistics don't really bear out the idea that he made that much of a change (and it always kind of smacked of Doug talking himself up), the regular season struggles amounted to a rocky run out against the Raiders where we never got the run game going because Warmack was in at guard so we were 66% passing plays in a close game we were never more than a field goal behind, and a dead rubber against Dallas that I never understood risking him for anyway, his first regular season game was a pretty faultless 4TD performance against the Giants, I attributed it as much to rust as anything, I think one of his issues as starter elsewhere has been his tendency to blow hot and cold early on before he settles into the role, he's never going to be a guy who goes out and seizes the job, but once he has confidence that he has a long leash he looks a lot better.

All that said it's kind of a moot point because regardless of the truth of the Foles offense, it still begs the question why Doug continues to watch Wentz flounder now in an offense he must know inside out (because opposing D's do), if its simply a matter of looking at what worked 3 years ago and doing more of that.

[greend]

Quick someone define what a spectacular era is.

[NOTW]

59 minutes ago, greend said:

Quick someone define what a spectacular era is.

Well so far the Doug Pederson era:

• 3/4 seasons making the playoffs
• Won 4/6 playoff games
• 2 division titles
• 1 Super Bowl Championship

 

[greend]

42 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Well so far the Doug Pederson era:

• 3/4 seasons making the playoffs
• Won 4/6 playoff games
• 2 division titles
• 1 Super Bowl Championship

 

Sounds almost spectacular. But hey one **** season and the locals want everyone fired. What a fanbase of maroons.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 minutes ago, greend said:

Sounds almost spectacular. But hey one **** season and the locals want everyone fired. What a fanbase of maroons.

It is spectacular and that's why Doug shouldn't be on the hot seat. He's been given a lousy roster by the GM.

[NOTW]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

It is spectacular and that's why Doug shouldn't be on the hot seat. He's been given a lousy roster by the GM.

The poor drafting and the cap issues in 2021 and 2022 should have Howie on the hot seat.  Not Doug.

Doug's done a good job with what he's given.  Even Schwartz, he's got crap at LB and secondary apart from Slay, and 3 starting D lineman with injuries.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

The poor drafting and the cap issues in 2021 and 2022 should have Howie on the hot seat.  Not Doug.

Doug's done a good job with what he's given.  Even Schwartz, he's got crap at LB and secondary apart from Slay, and 3 starting D lineman with injuries.

I completely agree that Doug has done a good job. Schwartz probably needs to go because I think he's taken this D as far as he can. 

But yeah Howie needs to go definitely. 

[NOTW]

4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I completely agree that Doug has done a good job. Schwartz probably needs to go because I think he's taken this D as far as he can. 

But yeah Howie needs to go definitely. 

Schwartz might quit if he doesn't get talent, he'll go elsewhere with a GM that gets him talent and end up having success as a DC.