5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Biden will make the left fringe his b**ch just like he did in the primaries. 

Ok, we shall see

nsfw

 

 

17 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

And further, the best chance for someone to put a stop to this political escalationism is Biden.

And as someone who is sick of all this backstabbing bull sheet, I hope he gets in there, avoids using brinkmanship as his MO, and allows cooler heads to prevail once again.

He'd be making the same mistake Obama made. Obama didn't want to come off as the enemy or the angry black dude. He wanted to be above it all.

That was cardinal sin #1. McConnell made the game public when he said his only priority was to screw Obama. This country can't function in a two party system with one party trying to run things doing it the right way and the other just trying to sabotage and hold power for personal gain. It's traditions are broken and don't hold water when half of its representatives don't stand for anything other than "F the other guys". So I'm done being the adult. It hasn't done any of us one bit of good.

I'm going to vote for Biden even if it kills me. He's a means to an end. But every election after that I'm going with Bernie or whatever lunatic progressives want to prop up as their nominee because watching the Republicans heads explode as a Socialist is sworn in is my only life goal now.

27 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

That's awesome. The fact that they've been planning for it means they'll have to spend less time trying to figure out the logistics.

Yeah, and they will have at least 8 more years of Trump to really get it figured out 

19 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Biden will make the left fringe his b**ch just like he did in the primaries. 

LOL I guess the best way to start that was by making a deal with Sanders after the primary. 

Just now, Diehardfan said:

Yeah, and they will have at least 8 more years of Trump to really get it figured out 

 

2 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

He'd be making the same mistake Obama made. Obama didn't want to come off as the enemy or the angry black dude. He wanted to be above it all.

That was cardinal sin #1. McConnell made the game public when he said his only priority was to screw Obama. This country can't function in a two party system with one party trying to run things doing it the right way and the other just trying to sabotage and hold power for personal gain. It's traditions are broken and don't hold water when half of its representatives don't stand for anything other than "F the other guys". So I'm done being the adult. It hasn't done any of us one bit of good.

I'm going to vote for Biden even if it kills me. He's a means to an end. But every election after that I'm going with Bernie or whatever lunatic progressives want to prop up as their nominee because watching the Republicans heads explode as a Socialist is sworn in is my only life goal now.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

22 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Anyone not throwing a tantrum about all the slimy, blatantly unconstitutional and eminently corrupt conduct by this administration either doesn't get it or is complicit in undoing federalism. Flipping out over and resisting this abortion of democracy is the patriotic thing to do.

Actually, many of us enjoy watching the absolute failure that is our federal government squirm as an outsider comes in and shakes up the norms on both sides.  He's brash and he's unorthodox, but, those of us who want the government to stay the hell out of our lives think the guy is doing a pretty good job. 

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Yeah well spending years trying to get people to be rational has got us here so I'm out on that thought experiment.

5 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

That was cardinal sin #1. McConnell made the game public when he said his only priority was to screw Obama. This country can't function in a two party system with one party trying to run things doing it the right way and the other just trying to sabotage and hold power for personal gain. It's traditions are broken and don't hold water when half of its representatives don't stand for anything other than "F the other guys". So I'm done being the adult. It hasn't done any of us one bit of good.

Yup. Playing by the rules against people who disregard them entirely will get you nowhere but beat. Time to fight fire with fire. There's literally no other option.

7 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Actually, many of us enjoy watching the absolute failure that is our federal government squirm as an outsider comes in and shakes up the norms on both sides.  He's brash and he's unorthodox, but, those of us who want the government to stay the hell out of our lives think the guy is doing a pretty good job. 

You've got jokes.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but I guess the issue is the Republicans have the votes to push through a nomination and Democrats can't block it?  Can't Democrats just prolong the process or block it in a way and wait until after the election?

Just now, NOTW said:

Forgive my ignorance, but I guess the issue is the Republicans have the votes to push through a nomination and Democrats can't block it?  Can't Democrats just prolong the process or block it in a way and wait until after the election?

Doesn't look like it.  Justices are passed through the Senate and Republicans have control there.  The big questions is whether some of the more moderate Republican Senators and those in tough elections will vote yes.   McConnell is going to have his work cut out for him. 

7 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Actually, many of us enjoy watching the absolute failure that is our federal government squirm as an outsider comes in and shakes up the norms on both sides.  He's brash and he's unorthodox, but, those of us who want the government to stay the hell out of our lives think the guy is doing a pretty good job. 

He's an authoritarian, so no, those of us who want limited government do not agree with the notion he's doing a pretty good job.

9 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Forgive my ignorance, but I guess the issue is the Republicans have the votes to push through a nomination and Democrats can't block it?  Can't Democrats just prolong the process or block it in a way and wait until after the election?

It's unlikely:

Quote

The Year field indicates the year of the nomination. The average is 82 days. Eighty-two days from today is Dec. 12. If the Senate votes on Dec. 12, by then it is likely that Mark Kelly (D) will be in the Senate and Martha McSally (R) will not, which will change the partisan balance from R53-D47 to R52-D48. The shortest confirmation of the current members of the Court is 66 days. Sixty-six days from today is Nov. 26. Kelly is unlikely to be seated by then, even if he wins, because the final result probably won't be official until Nov. 30. Getting the confirmation done by Election Day would not be a record by any means, but it would be faster than for recent nominees. If Mitch McConnell is determined to get it done before the election, that should be doable. Trump seems to want the vote before Election Day so he can run on "three conservative justices appointed!"

Historically, the following steps are followed:

• The president sends a nomination to the Senate
• The nominee fills out a lengthy questionnaire and undergoes an FBI check
• The nominee meets with senators who desire a meeting
• The Judiciary Committee holds hearings
• The Judiciary Committee votes on the nominee
• The full Senate debates the nomination
• The full Senate votes on the confirmation

If the nominee was recently appointed to an appeals court, some parts of this process can be speeded up, especially the questionnaire and FBI check. Democrats have almost no power to drag the process out. If every Democratic senator wanted a private meeting with the nominee, McConnell could rule that each meeting would last 10 minutes, allowing them all to be finished in a single day. By 8 p.m. there would a tired, but happy, nominee.

 

15 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Yup. Playing by the rules against people who disregard them entirely will get you nowhere but beat. Time to fight fire with fire. There's literally no other option.

You start here, next thing you know you're on TV asking China to hack the GOP, sending polling data to Saudi oligarchs, installing shameless partisan hacks as attorney general, withholding aid to Israel unless they can dig up dirt on your opponent, etc

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You start here, next thing you know you're on TV asking China to hack the GOP, sending polling data to Saudi oligarchs, installing shameless partisan hacks as attorney general, withholding aid to Israel unless they can dig up dirt on Trump, etc

Well, at this point, you'd arguably be stupid not to play that game. Impeachment legitimized soliciting foreign interference in the electoral process. Refusing to engage while Republicans get all their foreign buddies to help them out would just be another willful cession of political leverage.

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

He's an authoritarian, so no, those of us who want limited government do not agree with the notion he's doing a pretty good job.

He's slashed government regulation and got rid of the individual mandate.  Hell he even left the much of the Corona virus management up to State leadership.  Now, he could do A LOT more and I hope he does, but these are moves in the right direction.  

Just now, EaglesRocker97 said:

Well, at this point, you'd arguably be stupid not to play that game. Impeachment legitimized soliciting foreign interference in the electoral process. Refusing to engage while Republicans get all their foreign buddies to help them out would just be another willful cession of political leverage.

Sure, all that, plus it's illegal, so...

43 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I agree.  Mostly because he can barely form a complete sentence and will spend half his time in office napping  

It’s not called napping, it’s called  "executive time” and trump invented it. He will wake up early for a round of golf at least. 

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Sure, all that, plus it's illegal, so...

Is it, though? Won't the failed impeachment be considered precedent that it is acceptable behavior for a president to seek foreign help to win an election, so long as he deems his personal interests to reflect or otherwise be in service of national interests? I'm honestly asking. I'm not a legal scholar, but the only way I see extricating us from this danger is via a Constitutional amendment that specifically forbids it.

Just now, The Norseman said:

He's slashed government regulation and got rid of the individual mandate.  Hell he even left the much of the Corona virus management up to State leadership.  Now, he could do A LOT more and I hope he does, but these are moves in the right direction.  

Uhh, if there's ever a time that we need more government, not less, it's during a freaking global pandemic. Leaving the states to figure everything out on their own end is a recipe for disaster during an actual disaster. 

In fact, it's alarming that you think that's a good thing, in all honesty.

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

Hell he even left the much of the Corona virus management up to State leadership. 

So we should thank Trump for getting the federal government out of the whole Corona debacle?

 

38 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

You're talking about court appointments, I'm talking about politics in general. 

I think it actually started under Clinton.  When Republican's investigated him for Whitewater and then came across the Lewinsky stuff they should have dropped it (as despicable as it was).  The environment since then has been downright toxic.  So, yes, in some ways Republicans started it.

However, democrats were absolutely awful to Bush, they raised the stakes substantially during those 8 years.  Republicans were obstructionist to Obama, agreed.  But, the environment under Trump has been nothing short of an adult tantrum by the Democrats.  Love him or hate him, he isn't going to give them an inch after the last four years.   

Ken Starr and the Whitewater investigation was a total sham. Trump can thank Democrats and Republicans both for recognizing how big a sham it was and putting specific guardrails in place that hedged against open-ended investigations of sitting presidents by special prosecutors. Mueller for example had a very strict mandate and a thin lane in which he was able to operate, which is why he had to refer many things he found to district courts for further investigation (which are still ongoing; this is where the fight over tax returns is being waged).

With Bush, in part what you saw was an angry constituency who saw the first president in over 100 years "win" the presidency while losing the popular vote, installed under some VERY questionable circumstances by a Supreme Court dominated by conservative justices. That said, a lot of the flack that Bush received was probably not as deserved as it should be, but let's not pretend that the circumstances were normal.

I'll also remind you that going back to 1992 - that's 28 years and 7 presidential elections - exactly ONE resulted in a popular vote win by a Republican. ONE ELECTION in seven, and that was 2004 when Kerry was "swift boated". 

The popular vote "does not matter" insofar as it's the electoral college that matters, but what you have now is a perversion of the original intent of the EC with a majority of the nation lacking the same level of representation at the national level as the minority for over a generation.

For over a generation now, between gerrymandering at the state level (yes Democrats have engaged in it, but for almost 40 years the practice has been dominated by Republicans), and rural preference awarded by the EC, the division of political power along the cultural divide has resulted in a situation where Democrats need to win by landslide margins nationally in order to get a slim majority of representation at the federal level. This includes the Presidency, where roughly a +4 advantage in the popular vote is necessary to win the White House for a Democrat, the Senate where it's more like +7, and yes (due to gerrymandering) the House where it's in the neighborhood of +2. 

How long do you think the Republicans can put their thumbs on the scales before people get fed up and start marching in the streets? Maybe 2020?

To be sure, I would not be surprised if the Democrats would be engaging in similar tactics if the system significantly advantaged them in the way it does the Republicans to try and maintain a grip on power. But that's not the situation, and it does not give Republicans the excuse to engage in the levels of voter suppression, gerrymandering, and unethical behavior at various levels of power to disenfranchise voters. 

Rather than change their platform to appeal to a broader electorate, for over a generation Republicans have doubled down on these tactics to help keep a grip on power.