Kwity Paye (Michigan DE) -- DRAFTED BY INDIANAPOLIS #21

[time2rock]

1 hour ago, Ray75 said:

and BG up there in age...

You can say that about quite a few positions (i.e. a need due to age of the group) ... DE, CB, S, DT, OL.  And there is still a need with other position groups (WR, RB, TE, LB, and heck even QB since we only have 1 on the roster currently with Sudfeld hitting free agency in a month).  

To take Paye we'd have to trade back quite a bit (like late teens / early 20s) - anything earlier would be overdrafting IMO.  If we trade back that far we had better be blown away by an offer (e.g. this year's 1st, 2nd, next year's 1st minimum).  And I'd probably have my eye on other prospects before Paye (Horn, Samuel Jr, Bateman, etc.)

I'd sooner stay at 6 and pick from a few players that should be as close to can't miss prospects as they come.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

21 minutes ago, time2rock said:

To take Paye we'd have to trade back quite a bit (like late teens / early 20s) - anything earlier would be overdrafting IMO.  If we trade back that far we had better be blown away by an offer (e.g. this year's 1st, 2nd, next year's 1st minimum).  And I'd probably have my eye on other prospects before Paye (Horn, Samuel Jr, Bateman, etc.)

I don't know what the value chart says but a first, second and next years first to move back to late teens? Seems steep bud. I mean if they could get that kind of haul that would put them in a great position. 

[time2rock]

19 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't know what the value chart says but a first, second and next years first to move back to late teens? Seems steep bud. I mean if they could get that kind of haul that would put them in a great position. 

The Chiefs gave up their 2017 1st, 3rd, and 2018 1st to move up from 27 to 10 in the 2017 draft for Mahomes, so there is recent precedent.  The difference between pick 27 and say 22 is only 100 points on the NFL draft value chart.  The difference between 10 and 6 though is quite a bit more (300 points).  The difference in value (200 points) is roughly the equivalent of a mid 3rd rd pick.  So it is about the same (2 x mid 3rd rd picks = 1 x 2nd rd pick).

[Gannan]

This will be the newest member of the Eagles and will be our pick at #12. Bet the house on it. 

• Undersized edge rusher
• Reminds them of another Eagles player who worked out well from the same school and same position (aka Derrick Barnett redux)
• Projects to be a late first round pick but moving up some boards
• ESPN calls him "the most extraordinary player in the first round"
• He was even hurt and had to miss a few games this past season

He checks off every box for Roseman. This is his "I'm smarter than everyone else" pick. Quite literally the perfect Howie pick. 

[eaglesfan0075]

As far as I'm concerned, this is Howie's guy until he surprises us all otherwise and actually listens to what his scouts say and what the fans know this team really needs.

I will say this however, if he is indeed our pick, he does appear to have very strong intangibles. Saw a mini-piece on him promoted by NFL.com on Facebook about how his mother escaped civil war from Liberia twice and this kid seems really humble and genuinely hungry for success. Maybe he is someone that actually lives up to the hype?

I wish he was a top CB or WR since this is what the team needs more, but Howie's history tells us we're going DL if we stay at 12. I also wouldn't rule out a reach for DT Christian Barmore from Alabama, a Philly native, and the top DT in a weak class. If the Eagles really want Barmore, I'd rather them move into the 20s and pick up more draft capital for their trouble. If they want Paye, they'll have to stay put (or gasp, trade up ahead of the Giants, which I really hope they don't). I see the Giants going Slater or one of the Alabama WRs, hopefully we don't get suckered into a trade up for Paye.

Just stick to the darn draft board and listen to your scouts, Howie!

In my 1st round mock I have both Alabama WRs and both top CBs off the board, but have the Eagles taking Kwity Paye over Rashawn Slater (which I think is a mistake as Slater could be a Pro Bowl guard right away and slide to tackle when Lane Johnson is done in Philly or if something goes wrong with the Mailata/Dillard competition at LT)

[CaliEagle]

Get ready for the Howie want to be clever post draft quote of "there's no quit in Kwity and that's what we love about him".  Then, mass vomiting will commence.  This guy is a 2nd round player in most drafts. He is a project.  Players without a lot of college production, but need coaching to get better results a the pro level= definition of project.  We might trade down from 6...a spot where we could get a ready to go NFL player with pro bowl potential...for a project at 12.   If Howie does this, it just reinforces why he needed to be fired yesterday.

[eaglesfan0075]

8 minutes ago, CaliEagle said:

Get ready for the Howie want to be clever post draft quote of "there's no quit in Kwity and that's what we love about him".  Then, mass vomiting will commence.  This guy is a 2nd round player in most drafts. He is a project.  Players without a lot of college production, but need coaching to get better results a the pro level= definition of project.  We might trade down from 6...a spot where we could get a ready to go NFL player with pro bowl potential...for a project at 12.   If Howie does this, it just reinforces why he needed to be fired yesterday.

Agreed. Would much rather have one of Slater, the Alabama WRs, Surtain or Horn at 12. All of those guys are projected above average starters from Day 1.

[philafan4o8]

I have a bad feeling in my stomach that Paye will be the pick at 12 regardless of who is on the board at WR or CB.

[ilikepargo]

If Paye is the pick, I'll be angry.  Not that he'll be a bad player.  He looks like an average DE starter.  But guys like him are available every single year.  He's just not that special.

On a related note...  I was angry when Barnett was picked.  And he proved me right.  He's made some great plays, but he's basically an average NFL starter.

To trade back from #6 in order to take a guy who's just "pretty good" would be worthy of anger from the entire fanbase.  So far I haven't yet called for Howie to be fired.  If Paye is the pick, that'll change.

 

[philafan4o8]

2 minutes ago, ilikepargo said:

If Paye is the pick, I'll be angry.  Not that he'll e a bad player.  He looks like an average DE starter.  But guys like him are available every single year.  He's just not that special.

On a related note...  I was angry when Barnett was picked.  And he proved me right.  He's made some great plays, but he's basically an average NFL starter.

To trade back from #6 in order to take a guy who's just "pretty good" would be worthy of anger from the entire fanbase.  So far I haven't yet called for Howie to be fired.  If Paye is the pick, that'll change.

 

There can be an arguement made that Paye is not even the best DE in the draft. But yes, he is not an elite talent. Unlike Barnett, his college production was lack luster.

[CaliEagle]

9 minutes ago, philafan4o8 said:

There can be an arguement made that Paye is not even the best DE in the draft. But yes, he is not an elite talent. Unlike Barnett, his college production was lack luster.

if Howie does it, then it probably means he can't separate and evaluate players on their own merit without projecting another player into the equation. He probably is incorporating Brandon Graham into Paye and you just can't do that when you evaluate players. You have to look at each player individually and evaluate individually.

[philafan4o8]

Just now, CaliEagle said:

if Howie does it, then it probably means he can't separate and evaluate players on their own merit without projecting another player into the equation. He probably is incorporating Brandon Graham into Paye and you just can't do that when you evaluate players. You have to look at each player individually and evaluate individually.

Correct, I do remember a couple of comparisons lol

• Whiteside --> Alshon Jeffery
• Barnett --> Reggie White

Hopefully the scouting department has gotten the benefit of the doubt after the horror stories from the Eagles war room in previous years. Let the scouts do their job. Howie, clearly does not know talent.

[ilikepargo]

21 minutes ago, philafan4o8 said:

There can be an arguement made that Paye is not even the best DE in the draft. But yes, he is not an elite talent. Unlike Barnett, his college production was lack luster.

I'm not even saying that Paye will be a bad player.  He's as likely to be ok as anyone.  But in terms of both basic value and also meeting a specific and immediate team need, Surtain, Horn, Smith, and Waddle would all be better picks.  And I{'m confident that at least one of those will be available.

BTW - I'd take Parsons over Paye too.  The Eagles won't, because of character and because he's a LB.  But he's got more talent/ability.

[Gannan]

1 hour ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

How is 6 foot 4 272 lbs considered an "undersized" edge rusher?  

He’s 6’2 261

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/kwity-paye/32005041-5916-8986-d9fb-d5cb1d17eb42

[ilikepargo]

BTW - If Paye is the pick, I'm blaming Gannan.  This thread had been dead since Feb 21.  Gannan revived it.  It'll be his fault.

[pgcd3]

Any pick that turns out to be a Pro Bowl player is a good pick regardless of position but I'd be surprised if they picked outside of CB & WR which are glaring needs and where talent should be available

[UK_EaglesFan89]

6 hours ago, pgcd3 said:

Any pick that turns out to be a Pro Bowl player is a good pick regardless of position but I'd be surprised if they picked outside of CB & WR which are glaring needs and where talent should be available

I'll be honest... I'd be surprised if they do go CB or WR. They may be the most glaring needs but Kwity Paye has Howie written all over him. 

[Gannan]

11 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

These and Wikipedia.   How silly of me.  

Probably better to go by the NFL combine numbers

 

[Gannan]

11 hours ago, ilikepargo said:

BTW - If Paye is the pick, I'm blaming Gannan.  This thread had been dead since Feb 21.  Gannan revived it.  It'll be his fault.

There's been articles this week saying they love him so that's why I posted it. That and the fact that I've never seen a potential pick with Howie written all over him more than this guy.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, Gannan said:

There's been articles this week saying they love him so that's why I posted it. That and the fact that I've never seen a potential pick with Howie written all over him more than this guy.

I hope that is either a smokescreen or just incorrect reporting. But yeah he does have Howie written all over him.

[time2rock]

14 hours ago, eaglesfan0075 said:

As far as I'm concerned, this is Howie's guy until he surprises us all otherwise and actually listens to what his scouts say and what the fans know this team really needs.

I will say this however, if he is indeed our pick, he does appear to have very strong intangibles. Saw a mini-piece on him promoted by NFL.com on Facebook about how his mother escaped civil war from Liberia twice and this kid seems really humble and genuinely hungry for success. Maybe he is someone that actually lives up to the hype?

I wish he was a top CB or WR since this is what the team needs more, but Howie's history tells us we're going DL if we stay at 12. I also wouldn't rule out a reach for DT Christian Barmore from Alabama, a Philly native, and the top DT in a weak class. If the Eagles really want Barmore, I'd rather them move into the 20s and pick up more draft capital for their trouble. If they want Paye, they'll have to stay put (or gasp, trade up ahead of the Giants, which I really hope they don't). I see the Giants going Slater or one of the Alabama WRs, hopefully we don't get suckered into a trade up for Paye.

Just stick to the darn draft board and listen to your scouts, Howie!

In my 1st round mock I have both Alabama WRs and both top CBs off the board, but have the Eagles taking Kwity Paye over Rashawn Slater (which I think is a mistake as Slater could be a Pro Bowl guard right away and slide to tackle when Lane Johnson is done in Philly or if something goes wrong with the Mailata/Dillard competition at LT)

(Going by order as selected in that mock before our pick) ... with Pitts, Sewell, Chase, Waddle, Horn, Surtain, and Smith all gone before 12, then I'm really hoping we are able to find a team wanting to take Lance and trade down. There are a few teams picking after us that could potentially be in the market for a QB (Minny, NE, LV, WFT, Chicago, Pittsburgh, NO) that could lead to a seller's market for that pick since 4 of the top 5 QBs will be off the board by then.  But that really would be worst case scenario for us having 4 QBs go in top 10 and still have all of those guys listed above off the board.  

[ManchesterEagle]

2 hours ago, time2rock said:

(Going by order as selected in that mock before our pick) ... with Pitts, Sewell, Chase, Waddle, Horn, Surtain, and Smith all gone before 12, then I'm really hoping we are able to find a team wanting to take Lance and trade down. There are a few teams picking after us that could potentially be in the market for a QB (Minny, NE, LV, WFT, Chicago, Pittsburgh, NO) that could lead to a seller's market for that pick since 4 of the top 5 QBs will be off the board by then.  But that really would be worst case scenario for us having 4 QBs go in top 10 and still have all of those guys listed above off the board.  

I'm hoping we have a potential deal in place with Chicago for that eventuality. 12 for 20 and 52.

Personally though I think and hope that at least one of Smith, Surtain or Horn is available at 12 and that's the pick.

[time2rock]

4 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I'm hoping we have a potential deal in place with Chicago for that eventuality. 12 for 20 and 52.

Personally though I think and hope that at least one of Smith, Surtain or Horn is available at 12 and that's the pick.

Ditto.  And ditto.  

[ilikepargo]

3 hours ago, Gannan said:

There's been articles this week saying they love him so that's why I posted it. That and the fact that I've never seen a potential pick with Howie written all over him more than this guy.

Nope. All your fault!!!

[ilikepargo]

BTW - IMO Slater would be a better pick that Paye.