Mr. Lurie- YOU Allowed This To Happen

[Talonblood]

It starts at the top. Mr. Lurie is acting all upset with OTHERS, but is he looking at HIMSELF?

Mr. Lurie has no reason to look at the team and be disgusted. HE ALLOWED this, with the Committee OF 25 Offensive (really offensive, as it turns out) spies. That is what this is. They have all these rats running back reporting all the bad things they see, instead of trying to fix it. How can anyone work under those conditions? Talk about micro managing. You think Morningwiggy would say nice things about Doug, when he himself WANTS the job? Or any other committee of 25 rat? What the hell was Lurie thinking?? HE is at fault, along with Howie for agreeing to this committee of 25. There are way more issues than this, but this one of the largest problems- just look at the offense.

Lurie is acting all upset, like HE isn't at the root of this fiasco. Guess what, Jeff? YOU allowed this mess, and you let Howie do whatever he wanted. Look at YOUR mess and figure it out. Admit YOU screwed up and don't blame ANYONE other than YOURSELF.

Discuss.

 

[EagleJoe8]

Pretty much nailed it. Lurie is very capable of being a good owner, but I really don’t want him turning into Jerry Jones lite. Get back to what made you respectable. Hire people, give them enough rope to succeed or fail, and only step in when change is needed. 
 

And by the way Jeff, change is definitely needed. 

[Br3]

[NOTW]

I agree that Lurie has to take ownership (pun intended) and make the necessary changes.

Lurie has been a good owner.  Early on he was more hands off.  When Reid brought success, he let Reid do whatever he wanted.  Then Reid didn't replace his coaches with good people, and had some bad drafts and in the end he was fired because it was just time.  

Lurie let Chip reshape the team, then they had to rebuild again after Chip left.  He relied on the coach deciding the scheme and to change the roster to suit the new coach.  Instead, Lurie needs to hire a GM who knows how to build a franchise and select every player and coach to fit that philosophy.  That way, you fire a coach or replace a player and it's the same philosophy, same system.  You're not having to take 2 years to rebuild.  

Recent years he's "reportedly" more hands on, dictating that Doug fire his offensive coaches, wanting to see Hurts play more since they invested a high pick, not happy with what he's seeing on the field.  

He has to look at the cap hell, the bad contracts, bad trades and realize that Howie USED to be good at the cap, but isn't anymore.  And other teams manage the cap, make good trades and negotiate good contracts.  Howie is not the only person who can do that, and he's not good anymore at what he used to be good at.

He has to look at the entire league pointing at Howie for bad drafting, seeing the picks they passed on performing great while a guy like JJAW does nothing, Sidney Jones gets cut, Agholor goes elsewhere and plays better.  

He needs to blow this team up.  Fire Howie and Doug and start over with a real GM to run the franchise and make everything fit into the philosophy and goals of the team. 

 

[QBhunter58]

7 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

It starts at the top. Mr. Lurie is acting all upset with OTHERS, but is he looking at HIMSELF?

Mr. Lurie has no reason to look at the team and be disgusted. HE ALLOWED this, with the Committee OF 25 Offensive (really offensive, as it turns out) spies. That is what this is. They have all these rats running back reporting all the bad things they see, instead of trying to fix it. How can anyone work under those conditions? Talk about micro managing. You think Morningwiggy would say nice things about Doug, when he himself WANTS the job? Or any other committee of 25 rat? What the hell was Lurie thinking?? HE is at fault, along with Howie for agreeing to this committee of 25. There are way more issues than this, but this one of the largest problems- just look at the offense.

Lurie is acting all upset, like HE isn't at the root of this fiasco. Guess what, Jeff? YOU allowed this mess, and you let Howie do whatever he wanted. Look at YOUR mess and figure it out. Admit YOU screwed up and don't blame ANYONE other than YOURSELF.

Discuss.

 

I like How you capITalized THings that you rEally want to stRESs. LauriE made a misTake By giving Howie too mUch conTrol over This team. SOme major chaNges need to be mAde at all levels. We NeeD to start By seLling Off our aging assets and enter next draft WITh a real GM. I hestitate to pUt all the blame at Lauries feet, but he is one Part of why we are here.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

29 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

It starts at the top. Mr. Lurie is acting all upset with OTHERS, but is he looking at HIMSELF?

Mr. Lurie has no reason to look at the team and be disgusted. HE ALLOWED this, with the Committee OF 25 Offensive (really offensive, as it turns out) spies. That is what this is. They have all these rats running back reporting all the bad things they see, instead of trying to fix it. How can anyone work under those conditions? Talk about micro managing. You think Morningwiggy would say nice things about Doug, when he himself WANTS the job? Or any other committee of 25 rat? What the hell was Lurie thinking?? HE is at fault, along with Howie for agreeing to this committee of 25. There are way more issues than this, but this one of the largest problems- just look at the offense.

Lurie is acting all upset, like HE isn't at the root of this fiasco. Guess what, Jeff? YOU allowed this mess, and you let Howie do whatever he wanted. Look at YOUR mess and figure it out. Admit YOU screwed up and don't blame ANYONE other than YOURSELF.

Discuss.

 

I mean you have a point but I disagree.

He allowed this to happen in that he selected Howie as GM and he's allowed him to continue in that role. He's allowed this to happen in that he fired Doug's OC from last year and brought in some different minds. But he made those latter moves with a view to giving this team and this offense a boost. The choices made aren't working out but at least he tried to make changes.

All an owner can do is look at the situation and make what you think are the right choices to move the team forwards. If you do your due diligence and pick the wrong guys then I mean all teams do that?

What he now needs to do is act swiftly and get rid of Howie and if deems necessary Doug too.

[Talonblood]

46 minutes ago, NOTW said:

I agree that Lurie has to take ownership (pun intended) and make the necessary changes.

Lurie has been a good owner.  Early on he was more hands off.  When Reid brought success, he let Reid do whatever he wanted.  Then Reid didn't replace his coaches with good people, and had some bad drafts and in the end he was fired because it was just time.  

Lurie let Chip reshape the team, then they had to rebuild again after Chip left.  He relied on the coach deciding the scheme and to change the roster to suit the new coach.  Instead, Lurie needs to hire a GM who knows how to build a franchise and select every player and coach to fit that philosophy.  That way, you fire a coach or replace a player and it's the same philosophy, same system.  You're not having to take 2 years to rebuild.  

Recent years he's "reportedly" more hands on, dictating that Doug fire his offensive coaches, wanting to see Hurts play more since they invested a high pick, not happy with what he's seeing on the field.  

He has to look at the cap hell, the bad contracts, bad trades and realize that Howie USED to be good at the cap, but isn't anymore.  And other teams manage the cap, make good trades and negotiate good contracts.  Howie is not the only person who can do that, and he's not good anymore at what he used to be good at.

He has to look at the entire league pointing at Howie for bad drafting, seeing the picks they passed on performing great while a guy like JJAW does nothing, Sidney Jones gets cut, Agholor goes elsewhere and plays better.  

He needs to blow this team up.  Fire Howie and Doug and start over with a real GM to run the franchise and make everything fit into the philosophy and goals of the team. 

 

I agree- he has been a really good owner. I hope he can admit nd correct recent mistakes that led to this mess. I think he can. Will he? Hope so.

[flyerdog]

there has been debate about why we did not select Metcalf and why we took JJ instead....after reading both scouting reports, the main thing I take away is that JJ was touted as a better route runner...whereas this trait was listed as one of Metcalf's weaknesses....and this seems to be a theme with Eagles drafts...they hone in on one or two parameters and disregard others...and I think this is a problem with having a so called "system" and trying to find players who fit that system...IMO this is a very outdated model...it might have worked for Bill Walsh back in the day...but today most offenses are some form of hybrid anyway...a mix of finesse with smash mouth with trickery etc...

as such if you are stuck adhering to ONE model , you are potentially missing out on great players because you couldn't look past your own restrictions....
Someone like Bill B. finds a way to use players that have different traits and skill sets....in short he tailors his offense to the strengths and variables of his players...Until Lurie is willing to find a GM and coach who thinks along a similar vein...it will be more of the same....

I also think that this mess is also a case of the "Smartest Man in the room" syndrome...wherein Howie thinks that he knows better than a guy who is in the trenches...and I wonder....WHO picked Wentz?

was It Howie

was it Doug?

Howie/Lurie clearly didn't want another power struggle like they did with Chip...enter: Doug, who probably took the job, because he had no other offers and was probably the only one willing to succumb to Howie's whims, since he had no bargaining position...

It makes me wonder what we might see if Howie was not in the picture, but Doug remained....

 

[QBhunter58]

10 minutes ago, flyerdog said:

there has been debate about why we did not select Metcalf and why we took JJ instead....after reading both scouting reports, the main thing I take away is that JJ was touted as a better route runner...whereas this trait was listed as one of Metcalf's weaknesses....and this seems to be a theme with Eagles drafts...they hone in on one or two parameters and disregard others...and I think this is a problem with having a so called "system" and trying to find players who fit that system...IMO this is a very outdated model...it might have worked for Bill Walsh back in the day...but today most offenses are some form of hybrid anyway...a mix of finesse with smash mouth with trickery etc...

as such if you are stuck adhering to ONE model , you are potentially missing out on great players because you couldn't look past your own restrictions....
Someone like Bill B. finds a way to use players that have different traits and skill sets....in short he tailors his offense to the strengths and variables of his players...Until Lurie is willing to find a GM and coach who thinks along a similar vein...it will be more of the same...

 

Old news, but well stated. They try to find guys that fit a particular role in their scheme. While it is important to consider scheme when drafting, you also want to prioritize talent and BPA. I really like how you mentioned Bellichick, because he has been really good at doing this over the years. He works with what he has got, and he does a really good job at choosing "football players".

When considering personnel, versatility and potential cannot be overlooked. Just like in any job, there are going to be guys who are elite at one or two things, and if those things are valued they will do well. But there is a large group of other people who do many things well, or have untapped potential (but all the tools). These are the employees who usually stick around for a while, because you can fit them in anywhere. DK had lots of the tools but was inexperienced and had an injury history, that is why he lasted so long. Keying in on these types of guys is what makes and breaks teams especially in the later rounds. Pick any draft year and I can give you the names... In a redraft is there any doubt that guys like Eddie Jackson, George Kittle, Danielle Hunter, etc. would not be top 15 picks. I will give the eagles scouting team a little credit though, I think picks like Mailata (in 7th), Sweat (4), and even Taylor this year (3rd) are exactly the type of pick which considers tools, potential, and versatility. 

 

[MidMoFo]

Whatever has been going on with the draft process for the last 5 years needs fixed first. Drafting well makes cap management and coaching much easier. Outside of a couple picks... we haven’t drafted well for awhile.

[Traveler Vic]

Laurie's family was in the movie business. Whatever the Eagles have become..sometimes feels like a movie. A little comedy, a lot of tragedy, some action. LOL.

[time2rock]

How the F did we manage to win it all with Howie and Doug and Wentz who all now look like bottom 5 league wide at their respective positions?!?!!  Seriously. 

[QBhunter58]

22 minutes ago, time2rock said:

How the F did we manage to win it all with Howie and Doug and Wentz who all now look like bottom 5 league wide at their respective positions?!?!!  Seriously. 

Dougie Phresh got left out on the counter without a twist tie and became stale. 

[CaliEagle]

Howie has been with the Eagles organization close to 15 years or so. He has been in personnel for about 10 now. That is an eternity for someone who is involved with personnel. Even though Lurie "demoted him" when Chip was there, he never ousted Howie entirely.  He just can't can him.  It's a problem. I will believe it when I see it. But, it needs to happen. I think Lurie will blame the next 3 coaches before he even thinks about firing his buddy.  Lurie is a good owner for the most part, but this is a major weakness.

[jsdarkstar]

Yep. Lurie's at fault for allowing Howie (Prior GM of the Year) to build a SB Team, Hire a head coach that won a SB and draft players and obtain free agents, that helped them win a SB. But now that they suck, it's Lurie's fault for allowing it to happen. Got it.

[CaliEagle]

7 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said:

Yep. Lurie's at fault for allowing Howie (Prior GM of the Year) to build a SB Team, Hire a head coach that won a SB and draft players and obtain free agents, that helped them win a SB. But now that they suck, it's Lurie's fault for allowing it to happen. Got it.

I think most people are referring to since 2017.  The team is in a downward spiral. We are not drafting pro bowl players now.  We have a lot of age and big contracts on players who are declining. Howie hasn't done a good job the past few years. There isn't any sugarcoating it.

[XoqTionR]

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean you have a point but I disagree.

He allowed this to happen in that he selected Howie as GM and he's allowed him to continue in that role. He's allowed this to happen in that he fired Doug's OC from last year and brought in some different minds. But he made those latter moves with a view to giving this team and this offense a boost. The choices made aren't working out but at least he tried to make changes.

All an owner can do is look at the situation and make what you think are the right choices to move the team forwards. If you do your due diligence and pick the wrong guys then I mean all teams do that?

What he now needs to do is act swiftly and get rid of Howie and if deems necessary Doug too.

Letting the bean counter run a football team is main issue. He don't know football just numbers. Need to throw the analytics out the window too.

[EagleJoe8]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

How the F did we manage to win it all with Howie and Doug and Wentz who all now look like bottom 5 league wide at their respective positions?!?!!  Seriously. 

Good offensive staff, and Howie for one season had the Midas touch on FA signings. Wentz wasn’t in his own head then either. 

[time2rock]

2 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Good offensive staff, and Howie for one season had the Midas touch on FA signings. Wentz wasn’t in his own head then either. 

Oh I get all that.  It’s just they were all recognized as top dogs back then ... look how far they all fell in such a short time.  Crazy.

[EagleJoe8]

3 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Oh I get all that.  It’s just they were all recognized as top dogs back then ... look how far they all fell in such a short time.  Crazy.

Yeah, unfortunately they started smelling themselves. Howie and Doug at least. Wentz has, (it seems at least) that he’s in his own head and has been trying to escape ever since. 

[Hawkeye]

4 hours ago, Talonblood said:

It starts at the top. Mr. Lurie is acting all upset with OTHERS, but is he looking at HIMSELF?

Mr. Lurie has no reason to look at the team and be disgusted. HE ALLOWED this, with the Committee OF 25 Offensive (really offensive, as it turns out) spies. That is what this is. They have all these rats running back reporting all the bad things they see, instead of trying to fix it. How can anyone work under those conditions? Talk about micro managing. You think Morningwiggy would say nice things about Doug, when he himself WANTS the job? Or any other committee of 25 rat? What the hell was Lurie thinking?? HE is at fault, along with Howie for agreeing to this committee of 25. There are way more issues than thi

Lurie is acting all upset, like HE isn't at the root of this fiasco. Guess what, Jeff? YOU allowed this mess, and you let Howie do whatever he wanted. Look at YOUR mess and figure it out. Admit YOU screwed up and don't blame ANYONE other than YOURSELF.

Discuss.

 

If you feel like this about Lurie you would have LOVED Norman Braman...

[PoconoDon]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

If you feel like this about Lurie you would have LOVED Norman Braman...

Please don't go there...those fans who remember are still a little damaged. He was the Owner who said on local tv, that he has no interest in winning championships ever, and only owns the team to make money. Ah, the good old days...

 

As for the discussion at hand, Jeffrey Lurie must fire Howie Roseman or nothing will change in any meaningful way. That's where I'm at, and I think I'll just calm down and wait to see if Lurie does the right thing or not. It all starts there for me.

I'm in a state of Commercial détente with the team. As long as Howie is there, I spend no $ on the team. Not even a little key ring. I also announce my boycott of anything Eagles as presents from family and friends. They know to suspend those gift ideas until further notice. Nothing Eagles at all.

[toughfighter83]

if lurie turns into jerry jones, we are screwed because he's out of touch that he wouldnt change anything, no accountability, which makes the players do what they want and have no identity to win, hopefully lurie wakes up and makes the changes hire accountable coaches and a great gm that knows how to draft  when it's needed and not be stuck in loyalty with the front office and coaches where we can stuck being for 20 years and out of the playoffs like the cowboys.

[Utebird]

5 hours ago, time2rock said:

How the F did we manage to win it all with Howie and Doug and Wentz who all now look like bottom 5 league wide at their respective positions?!?!!  Seriously. 

Flash in the pan, howie hit good with a lot of FAs that year, jeffrey, torrey Smith, long, p robinson, blount trade for ayjayi. The 2017 draft didn't produce much but barnett was a key addition and Clement like everybody else had career years.

The RPO offense defenses hadn't caught up to yet and Doug and Co were really good at designing the offense around the RPO and that was that.

Even guys like mychal Kendricks who had been an after thought came in after hicks went down played out of his mind.

Fast forward to now and the guys that are left have under achieved or plateaued been hurt or just got old.

Since then pederson Wentz and howie have all gone down hill.

I think 2018 2019 doug and Wentz did a good job with the amount of injuries at holding things together over that same amount of time howie has failed miserably at his job.

Surprisingly the one guy I thought was the biggest problem in 2018 and 2019 Jim Schwartz has been the best of the bunch and this year with basically nothing in his back 7 other than an inconsistent slay he's got the defense playing well enough to win games.

If I didnt hate Schwartz defensive scheme so much id say make him coach fire howie hire a real OC and a DC and let Schwartz do the coaching stuff. Bil bilichick pete carroll stylem

 

[Talonblood]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

If you feel like this about Lurie you would have LOVED Norman Braman...

I know all about Norm B. Lurie is getting involved too much, and it shows. Jerry Jones ll,  if this downward spiral keeps going. Lurie needs to let go of his safety blankie- Howie Rozman. He seems like he would be lost without Howie in his life. Get rid of Howie and get a football savvy GM 1st. Start there.