The reality is the Eagles have to fire Howie, Doug, and keep Wentz

[T-1000]

Like it or not, it's just the reality of the situation. I personally don't like the idea of moving forward with Wentz but they have no other options due to the dead cap hit that would come with trading or releasing him.

Howie needs to go and it's not even much of a discussion. Every move he made turned to gold in 2017 but based on his past track record and what's happened since that looks like a total fluke. The Eagles have been one of the worst teams in the NFL when it comes to drafting under Howie. No two ways about it, he needs to go first and I don't think his failures have been given enough attention.

As far as Doug goes. It's hard for me to have any confidence in him after the season that he has. While Wentz has all of a sudden forgotten how to play QB, Doug looks like he forgot how to coach. I think it's more about Wentz but unfortunately Doug has to fall on this sword due to the Wentz contract. For whatever reason, Doug and Wentz do not work on the field and it's quite obvious to anyone paying attention that there is something off between the two that goes beyond what happens on the field.

It's going to take some time to turn things around but it is critical that all of the right movies this offseason. That is why it starts with replacing Howie. New GM picks a new coach, and finds an offensive coach who believes he can fix Wentz. Furthermore, the new GM better be one of a hell drafter because they can't afford to blow a top 10 pick. Quite frankly, they need to be able to bring in THREE players from the upcoming draft who can have a significant impact which means hitting on the early 2nd and 3rd round picks as well.

I don't like continuing to be hitched to the Wentz wagon, but I have consistently said that his problems are between the ears so perhaps a new coach can fix him. Worst comes to worst it doesn't work with a new coach and you take the 25 million dead cap hit in 2022 to move on from him and go with Hurts or high pick in the 2022 draft. Either way, if Lurie brings back Howie and Doug 2021 will be 2020 all over again. It simply can't happen.

[wyote]

I think the Wentz stuff has gotten to the point that he might never be able to succeed in Philadelphia again. He doesn't have the bark for it. He needs to be sent to a midwestern team. We should've sent McNabb out sooner when the fans had wrecked him too (basically about 5 minutes after he was drafted, but definitely after the TO stuff). It's hard to find a franchise QB, but it's even harder to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. 

[Ace Nova]

In fairness to the rest of the team, to Doug Pederson and to Carson Wentz himself, they need to sit Wentz for a few games and take some pressure off of him.  Keeping him out there when he's playing like this will not fix his issues...it will likely only make it worse for him, especially from a psychological standpoint. 

You start Hurts (or heck, even Sudfeld if Hurts isn't ready...but I doubt he's not capable of starting at least few games by now).   This way you are showing the rest of the team that you care about them and making the team better.  At the same time, you can see how much of it is scheme, play calling, etc. 

For example, if Hurts (or Sudfeld) has the same issues that Wentz has, then obviously there could be a huge issue with the scheme, etc.  If they have success with a new QB, it could be a good way to galvanize the team and Wentz may be able to see what he was doing wrong, etc etc.  It's a low-risk and high-reward scenario.  And it's basically their only choice at this point, imo.

Once all this all plays out, then you move forward and begin to determine how you will handle everything for 2021 and beyond.

 

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

22 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

For example, if Hurts (or Sudfeld) has the same issues that Wentz has, then obviously there could be a huge issue with the scheme, etc.  If they have success with a new QB, it could be a good way to galvanize the team and Wentz may be able to see what he was doing wrong, etc etc.  It's a low-risk and high-reward scenario.  And it's basically their only choice at this point, imo.

This. 

To me at this point both Howie and Lurie should be demanding that Doug puts Hurts in. 1) because the organisation needs to know what they have in Hurts and 2) if the same issues continue then you know it's not the QB.

Some people will argue that its the offense, the scheme, the play calling. That's a fair case but I would argue that none of those things can function when the QB is this bad and this broken. So we need to determine which it is and we need to do that fast. The fastest way to do that is to change the QB. The season is over anyway regardless of whether we win the division or not. So change the QB and judge what the biggest issue is.

And irrespective of how that goes, Howie has to go. There's no justification, no reason to keep him. 

[PoconoDon]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

This. 

To me at this point both Howie and Lurie should be demanding that Doug puts Hurts in. 1) because the organisation needs to know what they have in Hurts and 2) if the same issues continue then you know it's not the QB.

Some people will argue that its the offense, the scheme, the play calling. That's a fair case but I would argue that none of those things can function when the QB is this bad and this broken. So we need to determine which it is and we need to do that fast. The fastest way to do that is to change the QB. The season is over anyway regardless of whether we win the division or not. So change the QB and judge what the biggest issue is.

And irrespective of how that goes, Howie has to go. There's no justification, no reason to keep him. 

I'll be shocked if it's anything other than what we already know. the O-line is a sieve and can't protect long enough on most plays. The WR's can't get open quickly on most plays. the QB won't be accurate because of letting it go too soon in a panic due to pressure or holding it too long waiting for someone to come open. If the QB holds it too long, he'll be sacked and hit a bunch.

It'll look the same as it has, or worse, no matter who is back there. That's my expectation.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

It'll look the same as it has, or worse, no matter who is back there. That's my expectation.

Quite possibly yes. But I'd like to see if things are different. At least then we can say OK it's not Wentz we can feel more positive about him if changes are made next year. 

[kiwieagle]

The number 1, absolute thing that must happen this off-season is that Howie gotta go. I can live with everything else but we just can’t let the guy who can’t draft and keeps blowing our cap with bad FA signings and extensions carry on running this team. 
 

Bring in a new GM, hope he hires Joe Brady and let’s go

[ManchesterEagle]

3 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

In fairness to the rest of the team, to Doug Pederson and to Carson Wentz himself, they need to sit Wentz for a few games and take some pressure off of him.  Keeping him out there when he's playing like this will not fix his issues...it will likely only make it worse for him, especially from a psychological standpoint. 

You start Hurts (or heck, even Sudfeld if Hurts isn't ready...but I doubt he's not capable of starting at least few games by now).   This way you are showing the rest of the team that you care about them and making the team better.  At the same time, you can see how much of it is scheme, play calling, etc. 

For example, if Hurts (or Sudfeld) has the same issues that Wentz has, then obviously there could be a huge issue with the scheme, etc.  If they have success with a new QB, it could be a good way to galvanize the team and Wentz may be able to see what he was doing wrong, etc etc.  It's a low-risk and high-reward scenario.  And it's basically their only choice at this point, imo.

Once all this all plays out, then you move forward and begin to determine how you will handle everything for 2021 and beyond.

 

 

Agreed completely with this approach. Wentz needs to sit for a game or two. 

I think in reality all three will stay for at least another year.

1) Wentz - playing really badly at the moment, but his contract means we won’t be able to cut ties until after next year realistically. Hopefully he rebounds before then, so we can at least get something in a trade.

2) Doug. Doug should stay but absolutely needs an OC.

3) Howie. I’m no Howie fan boy and some of his moves have infuriated me. I wouldn’t be sad to see him go. But he is nowhere as bad as people on this board/the media are making out. He was integral to putting together that Super Bowl team and he made some good draft picks at times (he is below average at drafting)

As I said, wouldn’t be sad to see him go, but I doubt it happens. What if Hurts turns into a franchise QB next year?

[Talkingbirds]

My apologies if this was already discussed, but all during the Penn State- Michigan game they talked about possibility of Harbaugh leaving college football.  Should Eagles be a player if he does ?

[NYEagle]

43 minutes ago, Talkingbirds said:

My apologies if this was already discussed, but all during the Penn State- Michigan game they talked about possibility of Harbaugh leaving college football.  Should Eagles be a player if he does ?

NO

[nipples]

I don’t understand the logic of what he’s being paid meaning that we’re stuck with him as our starter. He’s being paid either way. So the options are do you want to pay him to keep losing games, or pay him to sit the bench while someone else helps us win games?

I am also of the opinion that Indy is a possible landing spot in a trade. All it takes is Reich believing that he can turn Carson around to make that trade happen. 

[Madriver]

The more I think about the Clowney hit the more I'm inclined to think that is at the root of Wentz' problems.

They rushed him back too soon and he is too macho or too religious to admit he has a problem. He needs to get healthy and the start of that is to sit him down.

[Talonblood]

12 hours ago, T-1000 said:

Like it or not, it's just the reality of the situation. I personally don't like the idea of moving forward with Wentz but they have no other options due to the dead cap hit that would come with trading or releasing him.

Howie needs to go and it's not even much of a discussion. Every move he made turned to gold in 2017 but based on his past track record and what's happened since that looks like a total fluke. The Eagles have been one of the worst teams in the NFL when it comes to drafting under Howie. No two ways about it, he needs to go first and I don't think his failures have been given enough attention.

As far as Doug goes. It's hard for me to have any confidence in him after the season that he has. While Wentz has all of a sudden forgotten how to play QB, Doug looks like he forgot how to coach. I think it's more about Wentz but unfortunately Doug has to fall on this sword due to the Wentz contract. For whatever reason, Doug and Wentz do not work on the field and it's quite obvious to anyone paying attention that there is something off between the two that goes beyond what happens on the field.

It's going to take some time to turn things around but it is critical that all of the right movies this offseason. That is why it starts with replacing Howie. New GM picks a new coach, and finds an offensive coach who believes he can fix Wentz. Furthermore, the new GM better be one of a hell drafter because they can't afford to blow a top 10 pick. Quite frankly, they need to be able to bring in THREE players from the upcoming draft who can have a significant impact which means hitting on the early 2nd and 3rd round picks as well.

I don't like continuing to be hitched to the Wentz wagon, but I have consistently said that his problems are between the ears so perhaps a new coach can fix him. Worst comes to worst it doesn't work with a new coach and you take the 25 million dead cap hit in 2022 to move on from him and go with Hurts or high pick in the 2022 draft. Either way, if Lurie brings back Howie and Doug 2021 will be 2020 all over again. It simply can't happen.

I like the post, but like I said on one of my posts that you disagreed with, Lurie had a hand in all the post Super Bowl front office changes, the offensive coordinator committee of 25 and firing people who Doug wanted to keep working with,  giving Howie the power of game day personnel type decisions, and more. It starts at the top. Just firing Howie and Doug, but putting this Lurie structure in for the next GM and coach changes nothing, really. Lurie needs to see his way hurt the Super Bowl team and made it the worse in the NFL in 3 short years, and change it. He needs to re-think his was and his negative meddling. Stop trying to be Jerry Jones. I really liked the old Lurie and just hope he changes the negative crap that does not work.

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, Madriver said:

The more I think about the Clowney hit the more I'm inclined to think that is at the root of Wentz' problems.

They rushed him back too soon and he is too macho or too religious to admit he has a problem. He needs to get healthy and the start of that is to sit him down.

Wentz has had performance problems since Reich left not just this year.  

[Mike030270]

In before the merge with the Wentz bashing thread

[EricAllenPick6]

8 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

I'll be shocked if it's anything other than what we already know

If we can get a QB that can actually look for a 2nd (or even 3rd) WR on a play, then you will definitely be shocked.  Guys are getting open, Wentz isn't looking for them.  The offensive line looks bad because Carson can't look past his primary read.  We can't run the ball because nobody respects our passing attack and they just stack the box.  It's not a sure thing, but Suds / Hurts deserve a shot at kick starting the offense.

 

1 hour ago, Madriver said:

The more I think about the Clowney hit the more I'm inclined to think that is at the root of Wentz' problems.

Absolutely this.  I don't hear any talk about this from the media, but it makes a lot of sense.  He has fallen off at a historic rate.  It's obvious that the concussion affected his decision making and possibly vision as well.  The good news is that it's possible Carson can bounce back, but he needs time.  He also needs somebody that is a concussion specialist to do a more in depth study with him.  

[mjkvol]

16 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

To me at this point both Howie and Lurie should be demanding that Doug puts Hurts in. 

I stopped right there.         The fact that this kind of meddling with a coach is going on (if it is indeed the case) is all you need to know that this is a dysfunctional organization that needs a complete overhaul.           When the owner and "GM" are demanding anything regarding the roster or game plan, it's over as far as the present setup is concerned.       Blow it up now or we are the new league doormat.

[QBhunter58]

Sell the pieces to get under the cap and inject some youth into this team. Try to start fresh next year with new coaches and a GM (please dont dump stoutland) and see what Wentz looks like. We wont be great for at least a year or two, but it has to start somewhere. 

[Diehardfan]

Disagree.

They need to fire Howie and it is the first move that needs to happen. We'll get to Doug in a bit, but one blown draft pick after another for years just can't stand. Giving contract extensions that screw them for years, making bad trades, and nothing in FA just can't stand. Time to move on.

Schwartz doesn't get the best out of his players on top of everything else. Time to go.

Doug....I think is a good head coach, but he is not a good OC without someone like Reich with him setting the plan. Would Bieniemy or Brady do better as coach? Maybe. Will he give up power and bring in a really good offensive mind and hand things over to them? If not then he should go.

Wentz...they are stuck with so might as well roll with it because of the cap hit. Bring in a really good offensive mind and rebuild the kid if possible. If not then they know for sure.

[JetroLot]

20 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

3) Howie. I’m no Howie fan boy and some of his moves have infuriated me. I wouldn’t be sad to see him go. But he is nowhere as bad as people on this board/the media are making out. He was integral to putting together that Super Bowl team and he made some good draft picks at times (he is below average at drafting)

 

When he is gone, whenever that may be, that is a statement that I guarantee you actually say, "Wow, they were right." 

I am by no means a super insider, but I know some people that interact with him and he is apparently a complete son of a b that is universally hated at NovaCare. I'm talking people want to put Visine in his water kinda hate. LOL. 

I'm very interested to hear real stories from higher up sources when he does get fired. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, mjkvol said:

I stopped right there.         The fact that this kind of meddling with a coach is going on (if it is indeed the case) is all you need to know that this is a dysfunctional organization that needs a complete overhaul.           When the owner and "GM" are demanding anything regarding the roster or game plan, it's over as far as the present setup is concerned.       Blow it up now or we are the new league doormat.

So all is OK with this team? Carson is playing well and things are just ticking along nicely for this team?

[Dwide Schrude]

1 hour ago, stinkfist said:

When he is gone, whenever that may be, that is a statement that I guarantee you actually say, "Wow, they were right." 

I am by no means a super insider, but I know some people that interact with him and he is apparently a complete son of a b that is universally hated at NovaCare. I'm talking people want to put Visine in his water kinda hate. LOL. 

I'm very interested to hear real stories from higher up sources when he does get fired. 

Sources?

[JetroLot]

11 minutes ago, Dwide Schrude said:

Sources?

LOL, "I know some people that interact with him" is enough. I'm not sure what you are looking for. Would you like employee names so they can be fired for their opinions? 🤣

For all you know, it's Jim the Porcupine. 

[EagleJoe8]

1 hour ago, stinkfist said:

LOL, "I know some people that interact with him" is enough. I'm not sure what you are looking for. Would you like employee names so they can be fired for their opinions? 🤣

For all you know, it's Jim the Porcupine. 

We don’t need names. Social security numbers, banking info, and pics of any cute females, should there by any, will do just fine. 
 

 

[time2rock]

6 hours ago, stinkfist said:

When he is gone, whenever that may be, that is a statement that I guarantee you actually say, "Wow, they were right." 

I am by no means a super insider, but I know some people that interact with him and he is apparently a complete son of a b that is universally hated at NovaCare. I'm talking people want to put Visine in his water kinda hate. LOL. 

I'm very interested to hear real stories from higher up sources when he does get fired. 

I don't know him and I even want to put Visine in his water ... on draft day especially.