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Rapoport: 'Impossible' for Eagles to Cut Carson Wentz with $60M Cap Hit in 2021


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Rapoport: 'Impossible' for Eagles to Cut Carson Wentz with $60M Cap Hit in 2021

ROB GOLDBERGDECEMBER 6, 2020

Despite poor play at quarterback this season, the Philadelphia Eagleslikely won't release Carson Wentz due to the $60 million in dead cap that would occur this offseason, as Ian Rapoport of NFL Network explained:

"They basically can't do it. It is almost impossible to move on from Carson Wentz," Rapoport said. "They have no choice."

Wentz signed a four-year, $128 million extension with the Eagles that could keep him under contract through the 2024 season. He has struggled mightily in 2020, however, throwing a league-high 15 interceptions while the team has gone just 3-7-1 in his starts.

His 231 passing yards per game would also be a career low for the 27-year-old.

The Eagles selected quarterback Jalen Hurts in the second round of the 2020 NFL draft, but the rookie has gotten few opportunities to show what he could do. He has three pass attempts on the season and has appeared in 33 offensive snaps all year.

The money owed to Wentz likely plays a role, with the starter making $39.4 million in 2020 and $25.4 million in 2021, per Spotrac. The team would have $59.2 million in dead cap if he is released after the season, although the number drops to $24.5 million after the 2021 campaign.

It could mean the Eagles stick with Wentz and hope he turns things around after a dreadful start.

The 2016 No. 2 overall pick has proved he can be a top quarterback in the past, earning a Pro Bowl selection in his second season when he led the NFL with a 77.2 Total QBR. He had 81 touchdowns and only 21 interceptions over his last three years, producing a 98.3 quarterback rating in this stretch.

He has been much worse in 2020 with a 73.4 rating, but his contract could ensure plenty more chances in the next 18 months.

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Wentz signed a four-year, $128 million extension with the Eagles that could keep him under contract through the 2024 season.

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The Eagles selected quarterback Jalen Hurts in the second round of the 2020 NFL draft

You don't draft a QB high if you just committed to your starting QB by giving him a new contract that is worth near $130M.  I could see using a 2nd on Hurts had we not signed Wentz to that monster deal and instead slapped the franchise tag on him to continue to evaluate his play.  But you had to know there was some risk that drafting a QB would shake your franchise QB's confidence and have him looking over his shoulder ... so why do it?!?!  (The fact that it did is for another conversation).  Just more stupidity / roster mismanagement on the part of Howie. 

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30 minutes ago, time2rock said:

You don't draft a QB high if you just gave your starting QB a new contract that is worth near $130M.  I could have using a 2nd on Hurts had we not signed Wentz to that monster deal and instead slapped the franchise tag on him to continue to evaluate his play.  But you had to know there was some risk that drafting a QB would shake your franchise QB's confidence and have him looking over his shoulder ... so why do it?!?!  (The fact that it did is for another conversation).  Just more stupidity / roster mismanagement on the part of Howie. 

Yeah, it was a Cleveland Browns type move by drafting Hurts. You committed to Wentz so be committed to him and draft some players around him to help. If you want a backup for him wait until the 4th round or later. 

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The eagles should shut Wentz down for the season......put him in the OC box, give him a different perspective.  His head is so screwed up right now, that playing him is just going to f---- him up some more......IF they handle him right, he can be the long term QB around here......he's a unique talent who has lost his confidence, lost the confidence of the offensive players and needs to regain his love for the game......let his competitiveness overcome his issues......next year.  

There's no point in throwing him out there now........sit him down, clear his head, let him come back next year with a different perspective.

 

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So firstly, it isn't impossible. It is very unlikely and improbable but it isn't impossible. 

Major changes need to happen this off season to turn this mess around. Now a new HC and a new GM may deem that starting fresh at QB is the answer. I doubt that and if they do then I'm guessing they'd trade him?

But anyway that's semantics.

The issue here is that it is all an issue. Wentz has been a disaster but the offense has a whole has been a disaster.

The single biggest issue is the GM. Get rid of him and we might start drafting some actual legit talent. Until then we are going to have a roster that is both expensive and ageing. Until then we will continue to stick to the old guys because the young ones aren't good enough. 

Howie created this QB mess by not addressing the OL sufficiently and drafting terribly at WR. Howie then compounded his own mistake by drafting a QB in the second round this year after giving Wentz a monster contract. How that guy is still in a job at this point is beyond me. Get him the hell out of here before he does more damage. 

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Pedersen and his offensive coaches have shown difficulty in integrating players into their offense.  The most obvious ones in the past 2 years has been Golden Tate and Jalen Hurts and I would even say Reagor.  Pederson has jerked the young WRs around and Wentz is struggling so bad that it's impossible to evaluate them.

Even trying to determine how poorly Pedersen is calling plays is difficult when the QB is playing so badly.  It's impossible to determine how games may have changed if Wentz didn't turn the ball over so much or even playing at a average level.  

The eagles are financially committed to Wentz......trading or cutting him is a financial disaster.........the only prudent thing is to do everything they can to see if Wentz can get back to being the player he once was. But the next five games won't determine that.....And if Lurie does indeed fire Roseman, which I highly doubt will happen, and/or Pedersen, then most of that focus will be finding a new GM then a head coach.  And if the last search was any indication, Lurie will not get the top prospects.  

As I said, I highly doubt Lurie fires Roseman or Pedersen.  BUT if he does, they have to find a GM ASAP and then go hard after Eric Bienemy...who has a proven history of offensive creativity.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

The eagles are financially committed to Wentz......trading or cutting him is a financial disaster.........the only prudent thing is to do everything they can to see if Wentz can get back to being the player he once was. But the next five games won't determine that.....And if Lurie does indeed fire Roseman, which I highly doubt will happen, and/or Pedersen, then most of that focus will be finding a new GM then a head coach.  And if the last search was any indication, Lurie will not get the top prospects.  

I don't think trading him is quite as out of the question as we may think. I know they'd have to eat $30m in cap space there but if they are tearing this whole thing down and restarting then I think that is on the table. If there is a team willing to give up good assets to get Wentz then I could see it happening.

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2 hours ago, Road to Victory said:

Yeah, it was a Cleveland Browns type move by drafting Hurts. You committed to Wentz so be committed to him and draft some players around him to help. If you want a backup for him wait until the 4th round or later. 

Disagree, and I have since day 1.  Eagle fans all know that Howie values the backup QB very highly.  He paid Foles pretty well to sit on the bench behind Carson after the super bowl.  We all saw a 40+ year journeyman QB suit up and play in the playoffs last year.  I thought (and still think) drafting a QB in the first few rounds made sense. It may have made more sense in round 3 or later.  

Regarding this story, this is a fantastic story written for headlines.  That would be what happens in a pre 6/1 release, which would be something you'd do only if you were intentionally trying to mess up the salary cap as much as possible.  You can play with the numbers on Spotrac: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/carson-wentz-18950/

Most likely path would be to trade Carson, post 6/1, total dead cap of $33m (not $60m).  We would likely would have to kick in a pick to get the other team to eat his salary.  So, something like: Eagles get: conditional late-round pick if anything;  team TBD gets: Carson Wentz, Eagles 2nd round pick in 2022.  If that happens, the 2021 cap savings is $25 mil with a dead cap of $9m, 2022 dead cap is $24M.   

I think the bigger question is: does releasing / trading Carson Wentz make sense?  Absolutely not.  Carson is a talented QB, his arm talent is undeniable.  He's tough as nails and can move a bit in the pocket.  We need to get a coaching staff that can help him.  Dump Doug & company, hire somebody to come in to work with Carson.  We go all-in on trying to help him next year.  If we can't do it, then we cut bait and release him after next season.  Dead cap would be $24m total (spread over 2 seasons).  

 

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30 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't think trading him is quite as out of the question as we may think. I know they'd have to eat $30m in cap space there but if they are tearing this whole thing down and restarting then I think that is on the table. If there is a team willing to give up good assets to get Wentz then I could see it happening.

Maybe, but after a season like this, who would?  Nobody is going to give up good assets for a QB who has struggled so badly, especially with that contract.  Plus his injury history.....torn acl, broken back, concussion.....

No, makes no sense to cut him and trading him simply won't bring back much.

As I said, with the commitment they've made, they have to give him every chance to get back to the player he was.  

The cap space is going to need a bunch of manipulation......and taking a huge dead money hit is just crazy.  They have to bring him back next year, get in work at OTA's, get in a full camp, and preseason and see if he wins the job back and how he plays in the regular season.  It should be apparent pretty early if he's no better.

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This is from OTC - https://overthecap.com/the-eagles-options-with-carson-wentz/

The Eagles can trade Wentz as long as it is before the 3rd day of the new year and while they will have dead money, it will not be $60 million. The key is finding a team that thinks they can fix Wentz.

Trading Wentz

The next option is the trade option and to me that is the only option that the Eagles should consider for 2021. When you trade a player you trade away all the guaranteed salary along with it so all you need to deal with at that point is the prorated acceleration.

The one caveat here is because there is a large roster bonus due on the 3rd day of the league year (remember we talked about that earlier) the Eagles would have to execute a trade prior to that date for a trade to really make sense. Here is how the salary cap works on a trade at various dates.

Trade Year Trade Date Dead Money Cap Savings
2021 Prior To 3rd day of LY $33,820,608 $852,928
2021 After 3rd day of LY $43,820,608 ($9,147,072)
2022 Prior To 3rd day of LY $24,547,072 $6,727,464
2022 After 3rd day of LY $24,548,072 $6,726,464
2023 Prior To 3rd day of LY $15,273,536 $16,001,000

This represents significant savings for Philadelphia if they can move on. Trading Wentz saves the Eagles $25.4 million in salaries that would be paid in 2021 and $15 million in salary that would become guaranteed in 2022. While the overall situation is still bad (they would have paid Wentz an extra $29.6M more than if they just let his rookie deal play out) the optics would be much improved if they made this move.

The question is would anyone trade for Wentz? While the Wentz contract averages $32 million a year its important to remember that the Eagles paid a good chunk of that money already. For a team trading for Wentz the contract would work out to be four years, $98.4 million or $24.6 million a season. The first two years of that contract would basically be guaranteed and the remainder would be in the control of the team that trades for him. The cap figures on the contract would be $25.4 million, $22 million, $25 million, and $26 million.

To put the numbers in perspective those cap figures in 2021 and 2022 would rank 11th and 13th in the NFL. The contract value would be in line with Teddy Bridgewater ($21M a year, $42M over first two years) and Nick Foles’ Jaguars contract ($22M a year, $46.625M a year) so it is perfectly fine for someone likely considered a low level starter if he was a free agent.

I don’t believe it would cost much. Primarily you are giving the Eagles financial relief by trading for him. I dont think the Eagles would kick in money (that defeats the purpose) nor would they send over a pick (they can sell that they can handle the deal in 2021 and move on in 2022). The Bears gave up a 4th round pick for Foles who was benched for Gardner Minshew so I would imagine the cost would be a 3rd here plus conditionals. Thats good for someone who just last year was considered a good signing at $32 million a year.

Wentz gives a decent team who likely had no viable path to draft a young star access to a potential good quarterback who is 30. The teams that make sense in that regard are the Colts, Bears, and maybe Browns depending on what they think about Baker Mayfield at this point.

The Colts of all the teams make the most sense. They are a good team with no QB on the roster for 2021. They have tons of cap space and would love access to a sub $30M QB. There is also a clear relationship with the head coach. The Bears dont really have the cap space and are on the wrong side of the age curve (though this hasnt stopped them before) and the Browns would probably chase Mayfield for another year.

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1 hour ago, birdman#12 said:

Maybe, but after a season like this, who would?  Nobody is going to give up good assets for a QB who has struggled so badly, especially with that contract.  Plus his injury history.....torn acl, broken back, concussion.....

I think you'd be surprised. I think the perception of Wentz around the league is different to our current perception. Until recently a lot of media guys were defending Wentz. I think there would be a couple of teams, at least, willing to trade a first and try to turn him around. 

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1 hour ago, pallidrone said:

This is from OTC - https://overthecap.com/the-eagles-options-with-carson-wentz/

The Eagles can trade Wentz as long as it is before the 3rd day of the new year and while they will have dead money, it will not be $60 million. The key is finding a team that thinks they can fix Wentz.

 

 

Wentz’s salary cap number is not bad for a team that trades for him. You have to remember the team that trades for him is only responsible for his salary and roster bonus NOT his prior signing bonus. This makes his cap number a lot less for another team. For example, in 2021 Wentz has a salary of $15.4m plus $10m roster bonus= $25.4 cap hit. In 2022 he has a salary of $22m and roster bonus of $1000. In 2023, he has a salary of $20m and roster bonus of $5m= $25m cap hit. 

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28 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

Wentz’s salary cap number is not bad for a team that trades for him. You have to remember the team that trades for him is only responsible for his salary and roster bonus NOT his prior signing bonus. This makes his cap number a lot less for another team. For example, in 2021 Wentz has a salary of $15.4m plus $10m roster bonus= $25.4 cap hit. In 2022 he has a salary of $22m and roster bonus of $1000. In 2023, he has a salary of $20m and roster bonus of $5m= $25m cap hit. 

Exactly.

They need to trade him in the offseason, cut a lot of dead weight and salary next year, let the Eagles run with Hurtz and basically a JV team in 2021 and hope to be competitive again in 2022.

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3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think you'd be surprised. I think the perception of Wentz around the league is different to our current perception. Until recently a lot of media guys were defending Wentz. I think there would be a couple of teams, at least, willing to trade a first and try to turn him around. 

Would you?

Media guys are mostly players or guys who know the players.......they're always slow to throw a guy under the bus.......

But hey, who knows?  Crazier things have happened.......

 

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15 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

Would you?

Media guys are mostly players or guys who know the players.......they're always slow to throw a guy under the bus.......

But hey, who knows?  Crazier things have happened.......

 

I think the perception of Philly going in to this year was that the team was in a good place to be a good team. I think many of us fans saw a slightly different picture. Sometimes being too close to the team is a bad thing, sometimes you see the real picture though. 

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In my opinion there are much bigger problems with this team and organization than just Wentz vs Hurts, I'm not willing to just give up on Wentz that quickly. The biggest problem is Howie and he needs to go right after the season, if Lurie keeps him it is not going to matter which  QB is playing. Howie has F-up this team for years to come with poor drafting and poor salary cap management, just my two cents.

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30 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think the perception of Philly going in to this year was that the team was in a good place to be a good team. I think many of us fans saw a slightly different picture. Sometimes being too close to the team is a bad thing, sometimes you see the real picture though. 

Well, losing brooks, johnson, seumolo and Dillard is a lousy way to go thru the season.....and the early season O-line troubles, I think, seriously affected Wentz along with the loss of Sanders in the first game.  No team can withstand the turnovers that Wentz committed.....Mistakes and lousy play by the QB always reverberate thru the entire team....especially when it's game after game.

The play of Wentz drastically changed the trajectory of this team.......it can't be understated how a QB can affect a team....Just like a great one can make an average team better, a bad one can drag a whole team down.  

That's why I think Pedersen is most to blame for this season being lost....he clearly waited too long to bench Wentz when it was so clear, at least to me, that Wentz was struggling with his own head and confidence.....I saw this 8 games ago.  But the eagles are committed to Wentz and they wanted to see him play out it......but when it's head issues, they can't.  Pedersen sacrificed the season for one player.......that may be inexcusable.  Pedersen, being an ex-QB, should have been able to see this much earlier.  The fact that he still hasn't decided on the QB for the next game, indicates he still doesn't see it;

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3 hours ago, pallidrone said:

Exactly.

They need to trade him in the offseason, cut a lot of dead weight and salary next year, let the Eagles run with Hurtz and basically a JV team in 2021 and hope to be competitive again in 2022.

I’m not a huge Hurts fan, although I hope he does well, I’m just not confident he’ll be any good. I think Wentz can turn it around, he just needs better coaching, more talent around him and better play calling. 

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14 hours ago, Road to Victory said:

Yeah, it was a Cleveland Browns type move by drafting Hurts. You committed to Wentz so be committed to him and draft some players around him to help. If you want a backup for him wait until the 4th round or later. 

Yup

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They would never just flat out cut him regardless of the cap situation. Trading him not only results in less of a cap hit but team still will line up to trade for him and we will receive something back, most likely a first rounder+. 

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14 hours ago, Road to Victory said:

I’m not a huge Hurts fan, although I hope he does well, I’m just not confident he’ll be any good. I think Wentz can turn it around, he just needs better coaching, more talent around him and better play calling. 

I am neither positive or negative on Hurts. I would like to see what he can bring to the table.

I think Wentz is done in Philly. His issues go far beyond just being terrible this year. How many stories broke out of the locker room about Wentz and his leadership? How many times has there been smoke? It seems like there is a lack of respect for Wentz from his own teammates and once that happens, it is hard to fix.

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8 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

I am neither positive or negative on Hurts. I would like to see what he can bring to the table.

I think Wentz is done in Philly. His issues go far beyond just being terrible this year. How many stories broke out of the locker room about Wentz and his leadership? How many times has there been smoke? It seems like there is a lack of respect for Wentz from his own teammates and once that happens, it is hard to fix.

If he plays like the Wentz of 2017 his teammates will respect him. They have to simplify things like they did his rookie year. Get him rolling out, make some easy passes to build his confidence. When Foles was struggling at the end of 2017, they went back and looked at his old tape to see what plays were successful. It’s simple, do the same for Wentz. He didn’t forget how to play football. The play calling is atrocious. You know on every 3rd down the blitz is coming and Pederson leaves him there like a sitting duck. If the blitz is coming there’s plenty of plays to burn a blitz. Take advantage of the blitz and burn the defense. 

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2 hours ago, Road to Victory said:

If he plays like the Wentz of 2017 his teammates will respect him. They have to simplify things like they did his rookie year. Get him rolling out, make some easy passes to build his confidence. When Foles was struggling at the end of 2017, they went back and looked at his old tape to see what plays were successful. It’s simple, do the same for Wentz. He didn’t forget how to play football. The play calling is atrocious. You know on every 3rd down the blitz is coming and Pederson leaves him there like a sitting duck. If the blitz is coming there’s plenty of plays to burn a blitz. Take advantage of the blitz and burn the defense. 

If is a big word. The damage is done now and it will be very, very difficult to get all this good will back. It will require not just one season, but multiple seasons of him playing better. It will require him to change his attitude which he may not do. It will require a coaching change and possibly gutting a lot of players, especially those that are not in Wentz corner. If you do that and he plays terrible still, there will be a revolt on your hands.

I feel that if you are going to clean house, then clean house. Get rid of the coach, the GM, all the players, bad contracts etc. Eat all the cap space next year. Trade off whatever assets you can, including Wentz, to build up your draft coffer and go into next year with a new attitude and a new team. They will end up being terrible, but it is OK to be terrible if it means change for the future.

If the new coach feels they can fix Wentz then fine keep him, but he needs to be on a short leash, in a QB competition in the off season and has to be treated like any other player. He can not be treated like a franchise QB because he is not that.

The worst part of all this is that I still think Doug is a good coach and I would hope that he could stay here, but I do not see an option for that anymore. I think he is in a bad situation here and I really dont understand how Lurie allowed it to get this way.

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2 hours ago, pallidrone said:

If is a big word. The damage is done now and it will be very, very difficult to get all this good will back. It will require not just one season, but multiple seasons of him playing better. It will require him to change his attitude which he may not do. It will require a coaching change and possibly gutting a lot of players, especially those that are not in Wentz corner. If you do that and he plays terrible still, there will be a revolt on your hands.

I feel that if you are going to clean house, then clean house. Get rid of the coach, the GM, all the players, bad contracts etc. Eat all the cap space next year. Trade off whatever assets you can, including Wentz, to build up your draft coffer and go into next year with a new attitude and a new team. They will end up being terrible, but it is OK to be terrible if it means change for the future.

If the new coach feels they can fix Wentz then fine keep him, but he needs to be on a short leash, in a QB competition in the off season and has to be treated like any other player. He can not be treated like a franchise QB because he is not that.

The worst part of all this is that I still think Doug is a good coach and I would hope that he could stay here, but I do not see an option for that anymore. I think he is in a bad situation here and I really dont understand how Lurie allowed it to get this way.

I don’t think "if” is a big word. Wentz singled handedly led them to the playoffs last year. He had no weapons around him. This is his first really bad year (2018 he was never really healthy). 

I’m not sure about Doug. When he first came to Philly I thought he was a dumb jock, "yes” man type of guy. Not a very cerebral coach but he proved me wrong and I liked his coaching style. But, like AR, Marty and those before him he’s too pass happy. They won the SB with a physical running game and now we’re back to a finesse offense. Get back to what worked. I’m starting to think my initial assessment of Doug was right. He makes some really dumb decisions. It may have been all Reich and Flip. 

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