Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[eagle45]

7 minutes ago, kentwo said:

Exactly this.

I watched a lot of him at Bama and see the same issues five years later. People think that NFL coaching can magically fix the way he sees the game, but it is not like he wasn't getting high quality coaching in college. I do a lot of brain research for a living so I understand how difficult it can be for someone to change their behaviors. For him, it would take years of constant mental and physical repetition to change his neuron patterns and myelin sheath density. It is not impossible, but it would be extremely difficult and unlikely unless something major happened.

Myelin sheath density?

[Macho Grande]

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Myelin sheath density?

 

[wtfcares]

1 hour ago, highboy said:

It's not magic. It's literally how coaching works. In 3 months time a decent muay thai or boxing coach will literally alter almost every defensive instinct you have. 

So basically it’s every coaches fault in the league that their QB isn’t as good as Tom Brady. After all, Brady doesn’t do anything spectacular physically, he just has the right instincts and reads. And according to you any coach can give you the right instincts in 3 months. 

[highboy]

4 hours ago, wtfcares said:

So basically it’s every coaches fault in the league that their QB isn’t as good as Tom Brady. After all, Brady doesn’t do anything spectacular physically, he just has the right instincts and reads. And according to you any coach can give you the right instincts in 3 months. 

Except I literally didn't say or even imply any of that, and you'll have to be an adolescent teenager to get that from anything I said. I was responding to a post that implied that changing behavior including neuron patterns would take years of constant physical and mental repetition to train out of, which is factually incorrect. But go off. 

[wtfcares]

3 hours ago, highboy said:

Except I literally didn't say or even imply any of that, and you'll have to be an adolescent teenager to get that from anything I said. I was responding to a post that implied that changing behavior including neuron patterns would take years of constant physical and mental repetition to train out of, which is factually incorrect. But go off. 

That’s exactly what you implied. The guy was saying it would take Hurts years to change his instincts and you said:
 

It's literally how coaching works. In 3 months time a decent muay thai or boxing coach will literally alter almost every defensive instinct you have. 

If a Muay Thai coach can literally alter almost every defensive instinct you have in 3 months according to you, then in relation you’re saying it’s really up to the coach not the athlete and theoretically a good coach can alter and improve Hurts QB instincts very quickly. If what you say is true, then every good coach should theoretically be able to alter their QBs instincts to be great pretty quickly and all good coaches should have QBs with great instincts. Except most of them don’t. Unless you think most of the coaches in the league suck. 

[kentwo]

14 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Myelin sheath density?

The basic idea is that neurons that are repeatedly fired in sequence myelinate and develop a sheath around it that reduces electrical signal loss. This essentially improves transmission, speeding up reaction time so you do not have to think about what you are doing. Muscle memory, repetitious activities, even repetitive thoughts can form these sheaths over time. That is one reason why older people have such a difficult time dealing with changes to their routines or get confused when their myelin degrades. This can be good as athletes spend years developing proper techniques so that in games they just react and their bodies do complex motions without dedicated cognitive thought. On the other hand, it can be bad as most people know how difficult it is to break habits for things like poor diet, sleep routines, or even addictions to things like porn. 

In the end, the point is that changing the style of a QB who has played that way his whole life is not as easy as just showing him film and telling him "fix this." It requires an actual physiological change to occur in his brain. Without that change, in the middle of games, under pressure, when he has to make split second decisions he will most likely revert back to what his brain is most familiar with. It can be changed, but it will take time and a lot of repetitions that force him to do things that his brain is not comfortable with doing. Coaches can expedite this process with good play calling and installing a process that helps him transition to a different system, but a effective change may never happen in the time frame for an NFL team. 

[eagle45]

4 hours ago, kentwo said:

The basic idea is that neurons that are repeatedly fired in sequence myelinate and develop a sheath around it that reduces electrical signal loss. This essentially improves transmission, speeding up reaction time so you do not have to think about what you are doing. Muscle memory, repetitious activities, even repetitive thoughts can form these sheaths over time. That is one reason why older people have such a difficult time dealing with changes to their routines or get confused when their myelin degrades. This can be good as athletes spend years developing proper techniques so that in games they just react and their bodies do complex motions without dedicated cognitive thought. On the other hand, it can be bad as most people know how difficult it is to break habits for things like poor diet, sleep routines, or even addictions to things like porn. 

In the end, the point is that changing the style of a QB who has played that way his whole life is not as easy as just showing him film and telling him "fix this." It requires an actual physiological change to occur in his brain. Without that change, in the middle of games, under pressure, when he has to make split second decisions he will most likely revert back to what his brain is most familiar with. It can be changed, but it will take time and a lot of repetitions that force him to do things that his brain is not comfortable with doing. Coaches can expedite this process with good play calling and installing a process that helps him transition to a different system, but a effective change may never happen in the time frame for an NFL team. 

I know what it is…I just don’t agree with it.

[pallidrone]

22 hours ago, highboy said:

Inside The Birds aren't experts on the Eagles gameplan or coaching. No one is saying Hurts wasn't bad. But his isdues are directly related to coaching. The playcalling was atrocious, and both sides of the ball are completely undisciplined. Unlike most, I didn't make up my mind about Hurts before the season began. I'm not married to the idea that he is or isn't the QB of the future. What I do know, is that competent coaching is required. Stats aside, even with the dumpster fire this team was last season, Hurts was way more in control and didn't appear as lost as he does now. 

Coaching and other personnel is a huge factor in how a player develops in the NFL. That is why I laugh when people say that the Eagles are terrible drafters and they should have gotten J. Jefferson or DK Metcalf or Jeremy Chinn. Really? What makes anyone think that those players would still be the players they are with the hot mess of coaching that this team has had?

Would Jefferson really have had a break out season if he had to be the man day one? He was on a team that is a run first offense, who had an all star WR on the opposite side of him and a decent QB. Would he really have made a difference on a team that barely ran the ball, had all kinds of QB issues and a busted offensive line all season?

Would DK Metcalf be the player he is if he was not catching balls from the best deep pass thrower in the league, especially in that first year when the biggest knock on him, other then medical was that he only ran one route?

The issue on the Eagles goes much deeper then the players themselves. They have had issues for years with developing young players, which is why they ended up trading away assets for established players in the league. With all that said though, this is a very, very young coaching staff with most of them in their positions for the first time and we are only 3 games into the season. This season was always going to be a ****show no matter what. Our hope is that they figure things out as they probably go 1-6 to start the season, and start winning games later on in the year when it schedule becomes easier. They just have to improve in each game they play.

[greend]

22 hours ago, highboy said:

Both of which are related to coaching. 

Coach: Jalen look at your first read and if it isn't open run like hell.

Jalen: Yes coach

 

 

 Are you Jalen's mom?

[greend]

20 hours ago, highboy said:

It's not magic. It's literally how coaching works. In 3 months time a decent muay thai or boxing coach will literally alter almost every defensive instinct you have. 

Unless of course you have been practicing "muay thai" your entire life and should already know the basics. Besides wtf does that have to do with football?

[Seventy_Yard_FG]

10 hours ago, pallidrone said:

Coaching and other personnel is a huge factor in how a player develops in the NFL. That is why I laugh when people say that the Eagles are terrible drafters and they should have gotten J. Jefferson or DK Metcalf or Jeremy Chinn. Really? What makes anyone think that those players would still be the players they are with the hot mess of coaching that this team has had?

Would Jefferson really have had a break out season if he had to be the man day one? He was on a team that is a run first offense, who had an all star WR on the opposite side of him and a decent QB. Would he really have made a difference on a team that barely ran the ball, had all kinds of QB issues and a busted offensive line all season?

Would DK Metcalf be the player he is if he was not catching balls from the best deep pass thrower in the league, especially in that first year when the biggest knock on him, other then medical was that he only ran one route?

The issue on the Eagles goes much deeper then the players themselves. They have had issues for years with developing young players, which is why they ended up trading away assets for established players in the league. With all that said though, this is a very, very young coaching staff with most of them in their positions for the first time and we are only 3 games into the season. This season was always going to be a ****show no matter what. Our hope is that they figure things out as they probably go 1-6 to start the season, and start winning games later on in the year when it schedule becomes easier. They just have to improve in each game they play.

I think that last part is right.  Mistakes have a way of teaching motivated people important skills.  Now if our staff is arrogant they won’t learn, but…

Im not sure what the overall conversation is here though about Hurts.   I haven’t seen anything to say he’s not a solid top 10 quarterback if he keeps improving.  Not an ace or anything but a solid quarterback you can win one with if you have everything else going.  The good news I think would be hell never be a huge salary cap hog so you can afford to spend in other areas.

For now the issue in the last game is they just got pushed around.  Then also whatever happened to the run

[ThinkGreen]

On 9/29/2021 at 1:15 PM, Random Reglar said:

Ok,  you're not mentioning the Eagles defense, which did some good things like sack fumble TD and 4th and goal stop,  did give up 5 TDs.

And, you're not mentioning the WR/TEs having balls hit their hands and/or falling down.

I recorded the game and I'm looking at the play by play so,  I'll show some plays.

 

1    5:43    1    10    PHI 1    Jalen Hurts pass incomplete short middle intended for Zach Ertz    (off of Ertz hands)

1    0:54    2    1    PHI 34    Jalen Hurts left end for -2 yards (Landon pulled from RG and completely missed Parsons who made the tackle in the backfield)

2    5:13    3    5    DAL 46    Jalen Hurts pass incomplete short left intended for Dallas Goedert (not a great throw but Goedert got his hand on it)

3    14:23    1    10    DAL 47    Jalen Hurts pass incomplete short right intended for Dallas Goedert  (Goedert should have caught that)

3    14:17    2    10    DAL 47    Jalen Hurts pass short left intended for DeVonta Smith is intercepted by Trevon Diggs (Smith fell down)

3    14:07    1    10    PHI 25    Jalen Hurts pass incomplete intended for Kenneth Gainwell (off his hand, catchable, not great throw)

3    2:57    2    11    PHI 10    Jalen Hurts pass incomplete short left intended for Miles Sanders (catchable, not great)

3    2:52    3    11    PHI 10    Jalen Hurts pass incomplete deep left intended for DeVonta Smith (catchable, not great)

4    9:34    1    15    PHI 38    Jalen Hurts pass incomplete short left intended for Jalen Reagor (catchable)

4    9:30    2    15    PHI 38    Jalen Hurts pass incomplete deep right intended for DeVonta Smith (catchable)

what you find here (besides a decent number of OL penalties)  are a number of catchable balls that are not caught.  These aren't perfect passes at all,  but they're catchable,
some borderline catchable,  but if those players were all great pass catchers, there would be more catches there.

Fire Doug! 😂

[ThinkGreen]

On 10/1/2021 at 9:28 AM, greend said:

Coach: Jalen look at your first read and if it isn't open run like hell.

Jalen: Yes coach

 

 

 Are you Jalen's mom?

 If they would've called pass interference on Dallas on every play, the game gone would've gone differently. 

[EaglesRocker97]

I thought he looked pretty damn good today in his 8th start.

[Uscg-green]

Hurts is ok. He's not as bad as I thought but not as good as some think. He's an average 15-20 ranked QB. You can win with him if you have a fantastic team around him. He can't put a team on his back. 

[BirdsFanBill]

14 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

I thought he looked pretty damn good today in his 8th start.

I thought he was ok. Def better than last week. KC played him differently though but seemed like he executed pretty well with what was available. After last week I was worried he just may not be good enough, after today I’m encouraged again. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 hours ago, BirdsFanBill said:

I thought he was ok. Def better than last week. KC played him differently though but seemed like he executed pretty well with what was available. After last week I was worried he just may not be good enough, after today I’m encouraged again. 

I think it is going to be like this with Hurts all year. He's going to have good games, he's going to have bad games and he's going to have some games that leave you wondering whether he was good or bad. This team is going to have a hard job determining whether Hurts is the guy at the end of the year. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think it is going to be like this with Hurts all year. He's going to have good games, he's going to have bad games and he's going to have some games that leave you wondering whether he was good or bad. This team is going to have a hard job determining whether Hurts is the guy at the end of the year. 

Please, no!  That is the worst case scenario ever...but likely is the exact case that we are looking at.

As for yesterday, I thought he did better that I expected, but still not good enough to win games consistently.  Many will just focus on his stat line which looks super, but that has happened plenty of times now and we still lose the game. It's just too hit-or-miss to depend on.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Please, no!  That is the worst case scenario ever...but likely is the exact case that we are looking at.

As for yesterday, I thought he did better that I expected, but still not good enough to win games consistently.  Many will just focus on his stat line which looks super, but that has happened plenty of times now and we still lose the game. It's just too hit-or-miss to depend on.

Oh I wouldn't say worst case scenario to be honest. I mean if the team are still unsure on Hurts then that means he hasn't been terrible and in fact has flashed enough to warrant more time. 

This team isn't going to be ready to contend in a year or perhaps even two. This team can rebuild this roster, which it desperately needs, whilst they assess their options at QB. If Hurts isn't horrible then they might have enough for now to just keep moving forwards.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

10 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Oh I wouldn't say worst case scenario to be honest. I mean if the team are still unsure on Hurts then that means he hasn't been terrible and in fact has flashed enough to warrant more time. 

This team isn't going to be ready to contend in a year or perhaps even two. This team can rebuild this roster, which it desperately needs, whilst they assess their options at QB. If Hurts isn't horrible then they might have enough for now to just keep moving forwards.

Somewhere, someone has to make a determination of where he can take them this coming offseason.  Invest this year in it and then make the call and live with it. If he can be the face of the franchise, super bowl contending QB, go forward.  If he can't ultimately meet those obligations, then make the move.  The worst place in the NFL is being a 7 to 9 win team with a mediocre drafting GM. That's a slow death and I think Hurts puts the Eagles in that position in a year or two.  

I saw some potential yesterday, but also some challenges that don't seem to change.  He racked up a bunch of yards, but faltered in the red zone and we lost.  But, the question remains "Can he put the team over the top and win a Super Bowl?".  That win can happen in several models, but that has to be the measurement.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Somewhere, someone has to make a determination of where he can take them this coming offseason.  Invest this year in it and then make the call and live with it. If he can be the face of the franchise, super bowl contending QB, go forward.  If he can't ultimately meet those obligations, then make the move.  The worst place in the NFL is being a 7 to 9 win team with a mediocre drafting GM. That's a slow death and I think Hurts puts the Eagles in that position in a year or two.  

I saw some potential yesterday, but also some challenges that don't seem to change.  He racked up a bunch of yards, but faltered in the red zone and we lost.  But, the question remains "Can he put the team over the top and win a Super Bowl?".  That win can happen in several models, but that has to be the measurement.

The problem is bud... Despite the ammo they have next year isn't the year to be going after one of the top QBs in the draft. I really don't believe any of them will be anything special in the NFL. Now of course I could be wrong but that's just my view. So surely you'd be better off using those picks to build the roster? Then at a point in time go after a QB when the one you believe in is there?

[Swoop]

18 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The problem is bud... Despite the ammo they have next year isn't the year to be going after one of the top QBs in the draft. I really don't believe any of them will be anything special in the NFL. Now of course I could be wrong but that's just my view. So surely you'd be better off using those picks to build the roster? Then at a point in time go after a QB when the one you believe in is there?

I truly don't understand why people keep trying to make this argument. As it stands, we will likely have three high firsts in the draft. Some of the other teams around us that will be picking that low (Jags, Jets, Lions) already have their QB. Sure teams can trade up, but how many are going to jump us?

Having said that, why isn't it possible to take a QB that they love at 5 (just a random spot, obviously) and use the other two high firsts to build the team? Why isn't it possible to use one of those high picks to trade down a few slots and pick up more draft capital? Why isn't it possible to trade one of those firsts for a potentially high first the next year and even more capital?

People act as though they will lose all three firsts if they take a QB. It's not like we're going to have to trade up very high (if at all).

[UK_EaglesFan89]

4 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Having said that, why isn't it possible to take a QB that they love at 5 (just a random spot, obviously) and use the other two high firsts to build the team? Why isn't it possible to use one of those high picks to trade down a few slots and pick up more draft capital? Why isn't it possible to trade one of those firsts for a potentially high first the next year and even more capital?

Because I don't believe any of the QBs in next years draft are going to be stars in the NFL. That's just my opinion. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

11 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The problem is bud... Despite the ammo they have next year isn't the year to be going after one of the top QBs in the draft. I really don't believe any of them will be anything special in the NFL. Now of course I could be wrong but that's just my view. So surely you'd be better off using those picks to build the roster? Then at a point in time go after a QB when the one you believe in is there?

I don't disagree, but there are other ways to get a QB than the draft, but that is the most traditional way to build around your own.

In the draft, they likely don't even need to package picks to move up to get one of the top 2 - likely Howell and Corral - and still have the other two picks for talent.  Those guys will both be considered franchise talent.

OR, the team can certainly find talent with the picks and then work free agency or trade to get a franchise QB.  Just look at the Rams difference between moving from Stafford to Goff.  There will be movement out there this year.

OR, there could be a backup somewhere that they can get in trade that requires a 2nd or 3rd.  

Point being, there are plenty of options without tossing away all of our picks.

[Swoop]

3 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Because I don't believe any of the QBs in next years draft are going to be stars in the NFL. That's just my opinion. 

I understand that, but my point is drafting a QB doesn't negate also building the team.